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krispos42

(49,445 posts)
102. And thus it's a "culture war"
Sat Aug 24, 2013, 12:21 AM
Aug 2013

And when people wage a cultural war, they pass laws designed to punish those of a particular culture, regardless whether the laws are effective or reasonable.

The fact is that gun technology, like all technologies, changes and evolves over time. As hunting waned with the urbanization of America, gun ownership became more focused on self-defense and related recreational shooting (such as pistol competitions that emphasized tactical shooting) and less on hunting. So guns, particularly long guns, became more optimized for self-defense, taking on ergonomic features the military adopted during the post-WW2 era.

The long-barreled bolt-action rifle firing a powerful cartridge, or the lever-action rifle firing a moderate-powered cartridge, was replaced by semi-automatic rifles firing moderate cartridges from detachable magazines. Naturally, many of these rifles were simply civilian-legal versions of existing military guns like the M-16 and the AK-47.

This scared people, who at the time were dealing with the peak of the crime wave of the 20th century and the related violence and mayhem. These people, worried because people were buying more and more "assault weapons" instead of Elmer-Fudd-looking guns, and they started a cultural war against them.

Of course, this sent sales of the guns they wanted to ban to record numbers, and the conversation went mainstream. And a curious thing happened. It turns out that people that own guns get really unhappy and politically motivated when politicians move against things they own, and that people that don't own guns don't get correspondingly motivated to keep NOT owning guns.

You can poke fun at the people that are worried that "gubmint's comin' fer our gunz", but the fact is that there is a constant and non-inconsiderable movement out there to arbitrarily outlaw broad types of guns and accessories, and that wants to make buying and owning a gun considerably more expensive and difficult. And they want to do it through the power of the various levels of government in the U.S.

Now, obviously, there is a reaction to this. The RWers have adopted the nonsensical line about needing to overthrow a government that has become unresponsive to the public; yet these are the same people that vote for corporatist Republicans and Democrats that do NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING, to curtail the political power of organized money that is corrupting our political system and INSURING that they are not heard!

Or they're worried about societal/economic collapse (a valid fear) or a race war (a stupid white-man's fear) or a UN invasion ( ). There are perfectly valid, and reasonable, reasons for owning an AR-15 that don't involve black UN helicopters or space aliens.

But to counter the hysteria of mass shootings played endlessly by the MSM, and the (usually) irrational gun laws that have stemmed from those tragedies, they've adapted a counter-hysterical stance. Death panels and secret UN arms treaties, of course. And the FEMA camps all ready to be filled with prisoners taken by ACORN stormtroopers.

But despite the potential of all the AR-15s and AK-47s and M-1 Carbines and Mini-14s and the like, with all their high-capacity magazines and protruding pistol grips and lasers and tactical lights and camo finishes, rifles are a minor player in murder, robbery, etc. High-profile shooting asides (yeah, I know, it's a big aside, but bear with me), they simply are not a significant factor. Something like 5% of all murders (when the weapon was identifiable) are with rifles of all stripes.

So you can worry all you want; your odds of being killed with a muscle-driven weapon are significantly higher than being killed with a rifle. Oh, and accidental shooting deaths are at a low, after declining steadily for decades. MSM strikes again, eh?

But attempts to wage a culture war are only empowering the other side. This is in part because many of the laws proposed are ineffective, ridiculous, shameless pandering that only works on gun-ignorant people ("assault weapon" bans) and deflects attention from the root causes of violence and crime (War on Drugs, anyone?). But it also highlights this simple fact: gun owners will get politically organized and spend their money to continue to keep their guns (or their options on future guns), and non-gun-owners will NOT get politically organized and will NOT spend their money to continue to NOT own guns.

I agree with you that guns should look like guns, and toys should look like toys. None of my guns will ever look like anything but a serious chunk of metal and plastic and wood. And some of those "family portraits" make me shudder; I think there's one (1) picture of me holding a gun, and that's with two other people while out deer hunting on the prairie.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

K&R napkinz Aug 2013 #1
Oh no he did'nt!!! He WENT there. Good for him! Safetykitten Aug 2013 #2
Well said, Mr. Fischer. (nt) Paladin Aug 2013 #3
I see he still believes in the gunshow loophole. ileus Aug 2013 #4
Good to know it's not transnational corporations. krispos42 Aug 2013 #5
Politicians using xenophobia for political gain are universal... friendly_iconoclast Aug 2013 #13
*golf clap* Lizzie Poppet Aug 2013 #15
He specifically said "gun culture." OneGrassRoot Aug 2013 #35
"Hands, Fists" vs. "Rifles" as cause of homicide. Look it up... Eleanors38 Aug 2013 #48
How about "hands and fists" versus "guns"? Have you looked that one up? DanTex Aug 2013 #66
One of your own confirmed the 'culture war' bit a week or so ago: friendly_iconoclast Aug 2013 #82
Umm, yeah, the gun culture is a problem. DanTex Aug 2013 #86
I don't ignore them nearly as studiously as gun prohibitionists... friendly_iconoclast Aug 2013 #90
What are you talking about? Who's ignoring non-gun violence? DanTex Aug 2013 #93
The poster dealt with rifles, hence the reminder of the comparative data... Eleanors38 Aug 2013 #92
LOL. I figured you'd post a link to some right-wing hole like "guncite". DanTex Aug 2013 #95
So, you take issue with the data from the sources cited? Or just smear? Eleanors38 Aug 2013 #97
Umm, yes, I take issue with the sources cited. DanTex Aug 2013 #99
Again, you continue to smear and attack. Eleanors38 Aug 2013 #100
Excellent series of posts theHandpuppet Aug 2013 #101
You're quite the piece of work, aren't you? OneGrassRoot Aug 2013 #77
And you seem to be quite the confirmed extremist... Eleanors38 Aug 2013 #96
And thus it's a "culture war" krispos42 Aug 2013 #102
I think this senseless murder Jenoch Aug 2013 #6
Feral cops too PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #8
The guns sure do help, though. Squinch Aug 2013 #19
Do you have any idea how many .22 revolvers there are in the hands of the public in the U.S.? Jenoch Aug 2013 #49
"Even if it was tried." Squinch Aug 2013 #55
I threw that in there as an aside. Jenoch Aug 2013 #58
Again, "even if it was tried" Squinch Aug 2013 #63
Ok, you have to spell it out for me... Jenoch Aug 2013 #72
Yep, and we are so inept that we can't take the guns out of their hands:( rainy Aug 2013 #71
And his opinion means something because? Redneck_Dem Aug 2013 #7
Some live only for the approval of those they think are cool... friendly_iconoclast Aug 2013 #9
Or those who aren't sanguine when their citizens are randomly killed over the right Squinch Aug 2013 #22
He (and you) mistake a violence culture for gun culture. friendly_iconoclast Aug 2013 #24
He and I see the two as inextricably mixed. We see it that way because Squinch Aug 2013 #31
"You all found an incident where some kids killed a man without guns." friendly_iconoclast Aug 2013 #43
Gun deaths in the United States are not single incidents. Squinch Aug 2013 #47
And without guns, we'd *still* have a higher murder rate than Australia... friendly_iconoclast Aug 2013 #57
And we'd *still* have a much, much, much lower murder rate than we do now. Squinch Aug 2013 #61
You seem to have mistaken me for a NRA fan, when in fact I despise them friendly_iconoclast Aug 2013 #70
Then you need to stop making arguments like "without guns we'd still have crime." That's classic NRA Squinch Aug 2013 #79
That's the FBI's Uniform Crime Report, not the NRA friendly_iconoclast Aug 2013 #88
Way to miss the point!! Squinch Aug 2013 #89
The point is, we have a gun culture and a violence problem. friendly_iconoclast Aug 2013 #91
Good God. This is ridiculous. Have a nice day. Squinch Aug 2013 #94
And you refuse to see any corelation between the two Doctor_J Aug 2013 #103
enjoy your stay PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #11
And your opinion means something because? City Lights Aug 2013 #17
Our opinion comes with a vote, his does not Redneck_Dem Aug 2013 #18
Lots of black people and young people and old people in a lot of states Squinch Aug 2013 #20
His is more culture war. Fitting. Real world problems are so-o-o uncool. Eleanors38 Aug 2013 #36
The opinion of an ex deputy PM of another country Redneck_Dem Aug 2013 #44
What is up with you guys today? Are you all playing with an incomplete set of refrigerator Squinch Aug 2013 #52
+1 PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #59
Sometimes colorful word magnets Redneck_Dem Aug 2013 #62
In a land of dreams reality help keep show colorful. Squinch Aug 2013 #67
soon tourists will stop coming... n/t EC Aug 2013 #10
You wish. Australian tourists keep going to Bali... friendly_iconoclast Aug 2013 #12
"31 Australians died in Bali in the past financial year" Lizzie Poppet Aug 2013 #27
"What? No call for a boycott?" That would mean less Yank bashing... friendly_iconoclast Aug 2013 #29
No, the violence culture rl6214 Aug 2013 #14
I doubt these three idiots would have hesitated to beat the man RZM Aug 2013 #16
I'm thinking the point was about the (so-called) culture, less than the guns. truebluegreen Aug 2013 #23
I'd go farther: US culture is corrupting the world. truebluegreen Aug 2013 #21
Feh. Internalized xenophobia. friendly_iconoclast Aug 2013 #25
That doesn't actually make any sense. Squinch Aug 2013 #41
Think Aaron McGruder's "Uncle Ruckus"... friendly_iconoclast Aug 2013 #51
There's always a few here who interpret the wish to regulate guns as despising Americans. Squinch Aug 2013 #56
Kindly point them out- but remember... friendly_iconoclast Aug 2013 #60
I noticed a post out of the gungeon, where some brave soul said something to the Squinch Aug 2013 #64
How so? Dash87 Aug 2013 #26
Gun culture? Robb Aug 2013 #28
Did you have something relevant you wanted to add? friendly_iconoclast Aug 2013 #30
Yes. "Gun culture" is characterized by xenophobic narcissism. Robb Aug 2013 #33
Then you'd best find a new strategy in your war against it. friendly_iconoclast Aug 2013 #38
What, on DU? Robb Aug 2013 #98
Glad you brought such overwhelming science and logic to liberal thought. nt Eleanors38 Aug 2013 #37
It's more about fighting the good fight than actual victory for that sort. friendly_iconoclast Aug 2013 #40
"For that sort." What was that you were saying about xenophobia? Squinch Aug 2013 #42
Hardly xenophobia- the impulse is universal. The Oz term for it is "wowserism"... friendly_iconoclast Aug 2013 #45
Again, that doesn't actually make any sense. Squinch Aug 2013 #50
Fischer is a xenophobic wowser that seems to have found some fans here friendly_iconoclast Aug 2013 #65
So now you veer off into the history of the word wowser? Bon voyage. Unregulated guns still suck. Squinch Aug 2013 #68
When you find someone that wants unregulated guns, point them out to me. friendly_iconoclast Aug 2013 #73
Which was pretty much Fischer's point. Squinch Aug 2013 #75
...along with some gratuitous Yank-bashing for the hometown crowd. friendly_iconoclast Aug 2013 #80
Again, you can shoot the messenger (pun intended) but the message is still valid. Squinch Aug 2013 #83
It's too bad that most xenophobic narcissists/"gun rights advocates" never actually DanTex Aug 2013 #46
He's one of them gun grabbers! Git him! Kingofalldems Aug 2013 #32
And I care about what he says because.....? GalaxyHunter Aug 2013 #34
K&R MotherPetrie Aug 2013 #39
If there's anything gun nuts hate almost as much as gun control, it's people from foreign countries. DanTex Aug 2013 #53
+1000 noiretextatique Aug 2013 #69
Exactly! The issue people here are having is that someone is pointing at us and saying, Squinch Aug 2013 #76
He's right, and Australia's 1996 gun laws would be perfect for the longterm future of this country. Hoyt Aug 2013 #54
And he's right but he's lucky malaise Aug 2013 #74
Then why doesn't Canada have a worse problem than Jamaica? friendly_iconoclast Aug 2013 #78
Date our gun violence - I dare you malaise Aug 2013 #81
This message was self-deleted by its author HangOnKids Aug 2013 #87
And then there's Mexico. DanTex Aug 2013 #84
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh! malaise Aug 2013 #85
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