General Discussion

MFrohike

(1,980 posts)

51. I'm curious

Sat Aug 24, 2013, 03:45 AM

Aug 2013

We heard all about "red lines" this past spring when Assad was supposed to have done it, then it all fizzled. Why should I believe he actually did it this time?

And, while I'm asking questions, why exactly is this America's problem? Sorry to be the cold-hearted realist here, but exactly how do the people of my country benefit from intervention? What foreseeable consequences would result and what unintended consequences could result? I don't want platitudes and aphorisms, I want real answers. I'm not interested in manipulative appeals to emotion through the language of morality, but a real calculus of what good this will do. Above all, I don't want foreign policy based on feelings, vague visions, and self-righteous outrage. We had enough of that under Bush.

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Did I just stop by DU and find people AGAINST military action on Syria? [View all] Barack_America Aug 2013 OP

How do you know it was Assad? Deep13 Aug 2013 #1

You believe Russia's excuse. Barack_America Aug 2013 #8

the 'rebels" SwampG8r Aug 2013 #10

The same people who killed our troops in Iraq...nt Jesus Malverde Aug 2013 #156

Haven't heard Russia's excuses. Deep13 Aug 2013 #23

We don't know who's responsible, but we do know who might benefit by this atrocity - the opposition leveymg Aug 2013 #81

Have you never heard of "False Flag" provocation used to justify Military Interventions?? bvar22 Aug 2013 #159

+1 Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel Aug 2013 #184

Touch�, bvar22 Carolina Aug 2013 #205

BRAVO!! SQUEE Aug 2013 #206

Who are we fighting for Luminous Animal Aug 2013 #2

Don't ask me, I don't give a damn Art_from_Ark Aug 2013 #56

I'm with you, Art Carolina Aug 2013 #84

My mom and I were talking about exactly those things the other day Art_from_Ark Aug 2013 #93

+1...nt Jesus Malverde Aug 2013 #147

totally agree with you steve2470 Aug 2013 #105

And even if we got involved, the chance of actually making a net positive contrib is close to zero. reformist2 Aug 2013 #94

Geez can't somoene else be the world's police for once? Why do we have to be in perpetual war? liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #3

agreed 100% nt steve2470 Aug 2013 #19

If you're comfortable passing the torch to Russia and China. Barack_America Aug 2013 #20

Russia and China are not the only countries in the UN. There are lots and lots and lots of countries liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #33

Unfortunately, it's the superpowers who call the shots. Barack_America Aug 2013 #36

Which means you've given up on EVER ending the age of war. Ken Burch Aug 2013 #62

Wow, what a helpful post, NOT. Hey, anyone who objects to little kids getting gassed.... MADem Aug 2013 #70

That is worse than blowing them up with drones how? n/t eridani Aug 2013 #73

Who is "them?" MADem Aug 2013 #85

March 2003, Donald Rumsfeld: Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #92

We aren't lead dog, here, and Rummy is retired. MADem Aug 2013 #172

You're one of the few who recommended this post DisgustipatedinCA Aug 2013 #139

LOL! bvar22 Aug 2013 #162

You are obnoxious and rude, and proudly so, too. You're also dead wrong--as usual. MADem Aug 2013 #170

You're the one who likes to play old and wise DisgustipatedinCA Aug 2013 #189

I don't "play" anything. MADem Aug 2013 #191

There's no moral difference anymore between U.S. wars and Russian and Chinese wars. Ken Burch Aug 2013 #61

Like the USA cares about human rights ha ha ha you are killing me. rainy Aug 2013 #78

What about at least waiting for the UN to investigate? karynnj Aug 2013 #122

Speaking of "never again" NuclearDem Aug 2013 #4

what fucking pompous self-righteous bullshit MotherPetrie Aug 2013 #5

So, what's your diplomatic strategy? Barack_America Aug 2013 #11

Stay the fuck out of it. MotherPetrie Aug 2013 #43

Touche, MP Carolina Aug 2013 #88

Yep. And sign up for combat if you're a DU woman drumming for war. n/t JimDandy Aug 2013 #117

This message was self-deleted by its author Adam051188 Aug 2013 #140

I am against all current foreign US military action. Your OP does not call for diplomatic action, Vincardog Aug 2013 #187

+ 50,000 rug Aug 2013 #135

+1 progressoid Aug 2013 #202

I have doubts about unilateral military action bypassing the UN bhikkhu Aug 2013 #6

I don't think there's any plan to bypass the UN. MADem Aug 2013 #173

Even then, the security council would have to approve any action bhikkhu Aug 2013 #198

We might just make it worse. limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #7

That ain't true - did pretty good in Iraq and Afghanistan ConcernedCanuk Aug 2013 #29

i am against military action in syria SwampG8r Aug 2013 #9

That's an interesting list of grievances to equate with the use of chemical weapons... Barack_America Aug 2013 #13

our civil rights record SwampG8r Aug 2013 #17

Our civil rights record now is no good, but it has Assad's beat to shit. Barack_America Aug 2013 #30

sounds like a job for the un SwampG8r Aug 2013 #31

I agree wholeheartedly about the UN nt steve2470 Aug 2013 #38

It'll still be our troops and our money even if action is through the UN. Barack_America Aug 2013 #39

The UN does use troops from elsewhere muriel_volestrangler Aug 2013 #69

Whoa, I don't usually think of the UN as launching offensive actions. Not that they don't see their freshwest Aug 2013 #155

You are confusing the UN with NATO. We give MONEY to UN , and are cheap with the troops. MADem Aug 2013 #193

Em, didn't the US join WW2 after an incident at Pearl Harbor? SwissTony Aug 2013 #99

Nailed it. NuclearDem Aug 2013 #107

I agree. No thank you. A sectarian war with dozens of factions, 90% of whom dont like us anyway stevenleser Aug 2013 #165

I agree with every word of this post. n/t Butterbean Aug 2013 #182

Being against an attempt to start WWIII is not part and parcel with excusing what is going on. Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #12

This is the most convincing argument against thus far. Barack_America Aug 2013 #15

I'm with you there. n/t Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #18

Political Cover? PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #44

WWIII? Are you fucking kidding? Even Putin wouldn't be that brazenly stupid! AverageJoe90 Aug 2013 #27

People said the same things in 1914.... Junkdrawer Aug 2013 #91

Exactly. jessie04 Aug 2013 #121

No, Jessie. Not exactly. Read my reply to Junkdrawer. AverageJoe90 Aug 2013 #175

Here's the problem, Junk: this isn't 1914. AverageJoe90 Aug 2013 #176

History never repeats, But it rhymes... Junkdrawer Aug 2013 #188

Apples and oranges. AverageJoe90 Aug 2013 #190

Consider how things escalate and egos flare and attack must be met with attack. Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #151

If the only resources expended were drones and cruise missiles, TexasTowelie Aug 2013 #14

This seems a cynical rhetorical argument cthulu2016 Aug 2013 #16

Much as it surprises me, i agree with cthulu2016 on this one peacebird Aug 2013 #82

More than cynical, it is weaponized rhetoric. The words themselves are an agrressive demand for Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #97

And why does this surprise you? PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #21

I assume by "let it rain" you mean drop bombs on people. LeftyMom Aug 2013 #22

well it is a high def screen nt SwampG8r Aug 2013 #26

I'm assuming you're in the Armed Forces or have a friend or loved one who is ? steve2470 Aug 2013 #24

I can agree, but what about Russia? AverageJoe90 Aug 2013 #32

I agree with you about the consequences if Russia gets involved steve2470 Aug 2013 #34

What an idiotic thing to say Recursion Aug 2013 #25

+1000. nt awoke_in_2003 Aug 2013 #40

And I find myself seconding Recursion, this is a serious matter and should be addressed as such Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #102

That statement sounds a lot like Mnpaul Aug 2013 #152

Yes, and I hope you always do. Bolo Boffin Aug 2013 #28

The case against Assad has never been compelling. ucrdem Aug 2013 #35

Please provide your proof of Assad's guilt to the UN. I'm sure they'll appreciate it Scootaloo Aug 2013 #37

Perhaps the OP can get Colin Powell to go show the 'proof' to the UN. Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #104

Aluminum tubes! Evidence of absence! Destroy the world five times over! Scootaloo Aug 2013 #110

How about the "clip art" HangOnKids Aug 2013 #185

Our military budget is 600 times that of the next 50 countries combined. Initech Aug 2013 #41

So I take it OP is enlisted? ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2013 #42

And then, while we're in the neighborhood, Union Scribe Aug 2013 #45

this argument reminds me of the Iraq war invasion talking point quinnox Aug 2013 #46

If folks were being gassed in Israel and people were against intervening The Straight Story Aug 2013 #47

Intervening on behalf of the gassers would be unwise. ucrdem Aug 2013 #50

And people didn't think hitler would invade poland, etc, because it was stupid. The Straight Story Aug 2013 #52

But how is Assad Hitler? ucrdem Aug 2013 #54

How was hitler like hitler at the start? He didn't just kill millions in one weekend The Straight Story Aug 2013 #75

The war against the Nazis was not about their 'killing millions' it was about their territorial Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #109

I understand your concern. Not all of us are lopsidedly pro-Isreal. I can't stand that they keep liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #53

It wouldn't matter to me if it was Israel Carolina Aug 2013 #89

Just bought stock in Haliburton,Dyncorp and Boeing.... dtom67 Aug 2013 #48

Get in at the bottom jakeXT Aug 2013 #68

oh well.... dtom67 Aug 2013 #194

We the people who frequent these pages have undergone somewhat abusive treatment SleeplessinSoCal Aug 2013 #49

I'm curious MFrohike Aug 2013 #51

Why in fuck would you be surprised DU is against military action?? Hissyspit Aug 2013 #55

We don't have the money to do it. Maybe if we cut back on cancer granny-arresting SWAT teams Warren DeMontague Aug 2013 #57

Nothing's as Keynsian as a war (nt) Recursion Aug 2013 #67

Syria was one of the 7 countries Bush wanted to go into newfie11 Aug 2013 #58

Problem is, NONE of the armed factions would be better. Ken Burch Aug 2013 #59

That OP sounds like something the Imperial War Office at Whitehall could have come out with in 1914. Ken Burch Aug 2013 #60

"Never Again" happens on a regular basis. cali Aug 2013 #63

Liberals arguing that the U.S. should give weapons to Syrian rebels underestimate Assad's power Douglas Carpenter Aug 2013 #64

Yeah, about that. JoeyT Aug 2013 #65

The Holocaust was not carried out during a civil war in Germany. How many civil wars do we join in? freshwest Aug 2013 #66

I oppose al Qaeda, that's why I oppose going to war against Syria. David__77 Aug 2013 #71

The problem is, not all the rebels are Al-Qaeda. AverageJoe90 Aug 2013 #174

Why is that a problem? I see the problem that many of them are, and almost all work with them. David__77 Aug 2013 #181

Explain how military intervention improves the situation eridani Aug 2013 #72

Hope this helps ... GeorgeGist Aug 2013 #74

If i could ban 3 things from ever existing in this universe darkangel218 Aug 2013 #76

It is not the proper use of our sons and daughters lives as military rainy Aug 2013 #77

Well, you've got a big heart. sibelian Aug 2013 #79

LMAO!!! darkangel218 Aug 2013 #83

I didn't. JVS Aug 2013 #115

IF the Assad regime were to be overthrown -- and that is very big IF - what next? Douglas Carpenter Aug 2013 #80

Oh puhleeze Carolina Aug 2013 #86

If you thought the attacks on Snowden/Manning were bad.... Junkdrawer Aug 2013 #87

John? John Bolton, is that you? notadmblnd Aug 2013 #90

don't be misled by a few loudmouths - 90% of us want more wars in the Middle East Douglas Carpenter Aug 2013 #95

yep, sign me up for us going into the Congo tomorrow steve2470 Aug 2013 #127

After the lie typeviic Aug 2013 #96

It's a civil war and neither side as a good claim to moral high ground OmahaBlueDog Aug 2013 #98

And so it begins AGAIN. 99Forever Aug 2013 #100

You're surprised that liberals are anti-war? Who do you believe the USA should back in this fight myrna minx Aug 2013 #101

Wow, not sure why you are shocked that some Du'ers don't want another war maddezmom Aug 2013 #103

It's the trial balloon. We're about to be inundated with this stuff. myrna minx Aug 2013 #108

I guess many do not trust the military to handle this correctly. Wonder why? n-t Logical Aug 2013 #106

Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #111

+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 Douglas Carpenter Aug 2013 #113

X a TRILLION too. bvar22 Aug 2013 #200

funny coincidence-- most people who recommended this OP also recommended pro-surveillance OP's Douglas Carpenter Aug 2013 #208

That was also my thought on the OP .... oldhippie Aug 2013 #116

I oppose military action in Syria. JVS Aug 2013 #112

"Syrian rebels won't advance U.S. interests: Joint Chiefs chairman" muriel_volestrangler Aug 2013 #114

Only thing I'd support is a targeted CIA-Navy Seal operation ecstatic Aug 2013 #118

Why don't we invite John McCain and Lindsey Graham over and see what they think? kentuck Aug 2013 #119

Keep in mind that, in avenging these deaths, we would be fighting for Al-Quaida or Hezbollah riqster Aug 2013 #120

We condoned it when Saddam used them agains Iran and his own people n2doc Aug 2013 #123

I can't believe we actually have war mongers here ... oldhippie Aug 2013 #124

He is different from John McCain. Unless I'm mistaken, AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #128

Sick, isn't it? I can't believe it either. It's not like we have a dog in this fight, especially Nay Aug 2013 #132

And you think a guy who murders people with remote controlled planes is the best Arctic Dave Aug 2013 #125

What's preventing you from going? During the Spanish Civil War, some Americans went. AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #126

It worked really well in Libya. mainer Aug 2013 #129

From an opposing view thread: chervilant Aug 2013 #130

We can't afford it. nt Bigmack Aug 2013 #131

I hope so. I just gave five bucks for a star and I don't want to demand a refund. rug Aug 2013 #133

Hooray! Three cheers for perpetual war!!! n/t kiawah Aug 2013 #134

I am certainly against military action. Coyotl Aug 2013 #136

I am very happy you just stopped by DU and found people AGAINST military action on Syria. Autumn Aug 2013 #137

LOL Didn't Democrats OWN 2006 & 2008 being antiwar? leftstreet Aug 2013 #138

Uh...drones and cruise missles kill civilians. Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2013 #141

The murder of innocent civilians is very disturbing to me. ZombieHorde Aug 2013 #142

Does the global community and it's findings matter ? Wash. state Desk Jet Aug 2013 #143

When they say "full support of the global community," ZombieHorde Aug 2013 #144

I really don't think that is what they mean zombiehorde Wash. state Desk Jet Aug 2013 #145

What do you think they mean by the phrase "global community?" ZombieHorde Aug 2013 #146

Don't you think there is a legitimate thing called the global watch dog ? Wash. state Desk Jet Aug 2013 #150

I don't know. ZombieHorde Aug 2013 #153

"Global community" = London, Paris, Washington, and maybe Bonn and Rome Comrade Grumpy Aug 2013 #157

What does Putin mean by our partners ? Wash. state Desk Jet Aug 2013 #195

Putin means same-sex lover, as opposed to other-sex lover. ZombieHorde Aug 2013 #196

Well then in your opinion I suppose that leaves plenty of room for real change. Wash. state Desk Jet Aug 2013 #197

Yes, by all means, let's empower another Islamist revolution. dorkulon Aug 2013 #148

Yes you did. I'm against US military action in Syria. Throd Aug 2013 #149

Awesome Warbone you're sporting Mr Liberal! whatchamacallit Aug 2013 #154

Why not comply with the law? reusrename Aug 2013 #158

I thought we waited too long for Bosnia and all but ignored Rwanda mick063 Aug 2013 #160

I would be tempted to agree with you Nevernose Aug 2013 #163

The captain of the boat is responsible for the course of his ship. mick063 Aug 2013 #164

Are you going to enlist and join this "noble cause"? Or urge your children or other young Lydia Leftcoast Aug 2013 #161

Thank you. GoCubsGo Aug 2013 #166

I'm against US military action in Syria The Second Stone Aug 2013 #167

This is why there is a United Nations. Blue_In_AK Aug 2013 #168

"Please enlighten me" LOL Corruption Inc Aug 2013 #169

Oh for fuck sakes Glassunion Aug 2013 #171

Why is killing people with bullets "legitimate" LittleBlue Aug 2013 #177

So the way to stop killing with one particular kind of weapon is to kill ALOT MORE people yurbud Aug 2013 #178

I don't know about "people." I am against it. LWolf Aug 2013 #179

Why do you believe what our gov't says about chem weapons, and even if used, that that's the reason yurbud Aug 2013 #180

You did, right here in this thread. Rex Aug 2013 #183

"The DU community now condones chemical murder of innocent civilians?" WorseBeforeBetter Aug 2013 #186

Have you paid attention to how our wars work? Bradical79 Aug 2013 #192

Might I remind you . . . markpkessinger Aug 2013 #199

You are pro-al Qaeda I guess. David__77 Aug 2013 #201

You first! atreides1 Aug 2013 #203

Yeah, you did. Iggo Aug 2013 #204

I'll reconsider my support of action in Syria as soon as you Vinnie From Indy Aug 2013 #207