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In reply to the discussion: Syria's Assad and regime DESERVE everything they're about to get from the U.S. And the West [View all]nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)36. Oh and this needs another response
It's funny to imagine what you peace purists would have said when the U.S. Was about to go to war with Germany and the concentration camps were gassing millions of Jews.
So let me introduce some nuance that you surely do not know
In January 1944, after learning from Treasury Secretary Henry Morgenthau, Jr. that the State
Department was obstructing rescue efforts, Roosevelt established the War Refugee Board to
coordinate governmental and private efforts to rescue those who might still be saved. The
Board is credited with saving at least 200,000 Jews. Critics argue that if FDR had acted earlier,
and more boldly, even more lives could have been saved.
Department was obstructing rescue efforts, Roosevelt established the War Refugee Board to
coordinate governmental and private efforts to rescue those who might still be saved. The
Board is credited with saving at least 200,000 Jews. Critics argue that if FDR had acted earlier,
and more boldly, even more lives could have been saved.
http://www.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/archives/pdfs/holocaust.pdf
Morgenthau wanted more than what the allies did to Germany by the way. He wanted the full and utter destruction of the industrial base in the Rhine.
You might want to check this
In FDR and the Jews, Richard Breitman and Allan J. Lichtman, professors at American University, contend that Roosevelt hardly did everything he could. But they maintain that his overall record several hundred thousand Jews saved, some of them thanks to little-known initiatives exceeds that of any subsequent president in responding to genocide in the midst of fierce domestic political opposition.
The consensus among the public is that Roosevelt really failed, Mr. Breitman said in a recent interview. In fact, he had fairly limited options.
Such statements, backed up by footnotes to hundreds of primary documents (some cited here for the first time), are unlikely to satisfy Roosevelts fiercest critics. Even before the books March 19 release, the David S. Wyman Institute for Holocaust Studies, a research organization in Washington, has circulated a detailed rebuttal, as well as a rival book, FDR and the Holocaust: A Breach of Faith, zeroing in on what it characterizes as Roosevelts personal desire to limit Jewish immigration to the United States.
But some leading Holocaust historians welcome FDR and the Jews for remaining dispassionate in a debate too often marked by anger and accusation.
The consensus among the public is that Roosevelt really failed, Mr. Breitman said in a recent interview. In fact, he had fairly limited options.
Such statements, backed up by footnotes to hundreds of primary documents (some cited here for the first time), are unlikely to satisfy Roosevelts fiercest critics. Even before the books March 19 release, the David S. Wyman Institute for Holocaust Studies, a research organization in Washington, has circulated a detailed rebuttal, as well as a rival book, FDR and the Holocaust: A Breach of Faith, zeroing in on what it characterizes as Roosevelts personal desire to limit Jewish immigration to the United States.
But some leading Holocaust historians welcome FDR and the Jews for remaining dispassionate in a debate too often marked by anger and accusation.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/09/books/book-tries-for-balanced-view-on-roosevelt-and-jews.html?pagewanted=all
Moreover his policies and refugee issues BEFORE the war were horrific, and I personally know one Holocaust Survivor who was denied entry to the US in 1939. You might want to read on the Ship of the Damned.
Oh and here is more on the issue...
This accusation of immense moral failure or indifference is now being addressed by a new book, FDR and the Jews, by Richard Breitman and Allan J. Lichtman. It sets out to find a middle ground and instead makes things worse. It is a portrait of a president who, in the authors own words, did not forthrightly inform the American people of Hitlers grisly Final Solution or respond decisively to his crimes. This is a Roosevelt who almost always had a more pressing political concern American isolationism, American anti-Semitism, a fear and hatred of immigrants and who stayed mum while a bill to allow 20,000 Jewish children into the United States died in Congress.
Roosevelt inattentively also permitted a cabal of heartless anti-Semites in the State Department to control the countrys visa policies. Desperate Jews, fleeing from the Nazis, were denied asylum in the United States. One of them was Otto Frank. His daughter Anne perished at the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp.
Both FDR and his wife, Eleanor, were genteel anti-Semites although the president had Jewish aides and one close Jewish friend, his neighbor Henry Morgenthau Jr. Eleanor, a woman not afraid to confront her own prejudices, later became a champion of Jewish causes, but the record for the president on this score is hardly as redeeming. As late as 1943, at the Casablanca Conference, he sympathized with a French generals observation that the Jews were overrepresented in the professions. FDR referenced the understandable complaints which the Germans bore towards the Jews.
Roosevelt inattentively also permitted a cabal of heartless anti-Semites in the State Department to control the countrys visa policies. Desperate Jews, fleeing from the Nazis, were denied asylum in the United States. One of them was Otto Frank. His daughter Anne perished at the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp.
Both FDR and his wife, Eleanor, were genteel anti-Semites although the president had Jewish aides and one close Jewish friend, his neighbor Henry Morgenthau Jr. Eleanor, a woman not afraid to confront her own prejudices, later became a champion of Jewish causes, but the record for the president on this score is hardly as redeeming. As late as 1943, at the Casablanca Conference, he sympathized with a French generals observation that the Jews were overrepresented in the professions. FDR referenced the understandable complaints which the Germans bore towards the Jews.
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-03-11/opinions/37621772_1_fdr-american-anti-semitism-anti-semites
I would be careful of those "purist" accusations. It is obvious that you are pretty ignorant of the debate that has raged in academia (at the very least) about the role of the United States and FDR and the Holocaust.
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Syria's Assad and regime DESERVE everything they're about to get from the U.S. And the West [View all]
Pretzel_Warrior
Aug 2013
OP
That will be determined in due course, but I am certain rebels don't have access to his chemical
Pretzel_Warrior
Aug 2013
#3
The opposition has also used chemical weapons. And, they do have access to the crude rockets
leveymg
Aug 2013
#14
The weight of evidence points in the other direction, toward a particularly terrible provocation
leveymg
Aug 2013
#10
In the absence of proof of who did it, and since it was obviously not in the interest of Assad to do
leveymg
Aug 2013
#26
Oh please. You and the OP are going to compare an internal civil war inside Syria with the
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#46
Have you studied the Holocaust or history of Nazi Germany much? If so, you'd understand
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#57
Systematic killing is systematic killing. Prior to this being a civil war, protesters were being
Pretzel_Warrior
Aug 2013
#60
You're being disingenuous in the extreme about your point in bringing up the Holocaust. This is
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#72
You said it was "systematic killing". Which facility were the victims shipped to...
MNBrewer
Aug 2013
#191
Yes, I have. Which is why we should pay attention here. Who does Syria hate?
The Straight Story
Aug 2013
#63
Oh, for Christ's sake, you're arguing that b/c Assad allegedly used CBW on his own people, nothing
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#68
Not a big fan of Occam's Razor, are you? You just showed me everything I need to know
Pretzel_Warrior
Aug 2013
#74
And I'm attempting to reason with someone who practices neo-McCarthyism and
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#75
Report: North Korea attempted to export gas masks to Syria; shipment was seized in Turkey
The Straight Story
Aug 2013
#82
As mentioned before: chemical attack, not to mention China and Russia
The Straight Story
Aug 2013
#109
Well, let's see. When the U.S. picks sides in other nation's civil wars, we seem
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#127
What exactly are they about to get? And how many Syrians will get it along with Assad and regime?
rug
Aug 2013
#9
I guess he means the Christians and the Alawites are going to get the ass kicking of their life
Douglas Carpenter
Aug 2013
#40
I hope they are ready, because that's who is really going to suffer when this ends badly
MNBrewer
Aug 2013
#192
Best response of this thread. OP is a chickenhawk, sounds like, and badly in need of
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#21
Godwin's Law right in the OP. Whoo-hoo! Wonder what all those dead and wounded Syrian women
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#17
The freed slaves of the American Civil War might take issue with your sentiments, as might those
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#33
War and violence does not happen to the "regime." It happens to the people. (nt)
enough
Aug 2013
#24
Is israel going to be helping out with this 'DESERVE everything they're about to get' operation?
Purveyor
Aug 2013
#32
Bingo! Cui bono? I ask. Why does this remind me of Iraqi soldiers ripping Kuwaiti babies from
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#37
Oh, don't listen to these humanitarian purists, who think those rights belong to them exclusively
railsback
Aug 2013
#34
Yeah, you know, all those saying we shouldn't get involved. Let the death continue
railsback
Aug 2013
#52
That would seem to be the 'I got my humanitarian rights, the rest can go to Hell' meme
railsback
Aug 2013
#70
That comes from our selective outrage at atrocities. Murder by chemical weapons BAD!
neverforget
Aug 2013
#77
Why do you support Al Qaida? You're either with Assad or you're with Al Qaida - nt
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#79
Is U.S. Preparing invasion force? No. Using 9/11 and al queda as pretext? No.
Pretzel_Warrior
Aug 2013
#54
A) I found no articles on their "Syria" position and B) Obama doesn't report to them and
Pretzel_Warrior
Aug 2013
#69
And C, Syria has been in the list of targets for regime change since 1998
nadinbrzezinski
Aug 2013
#71
Maybe we need leaders who have the "luxury" to stay out of other peoples civil wars.
Tierra_y_Libertad
Aug 2013
#56
The question isn't whether the victims are false, but whether the "flag" is false
MNBrewer
Aug 2013
#205
And if Obama doesn't bomb you'll be calling him a holocaust appeaser, of course.
cthulu2016
Aug 2013
#92
what a mindbogglingly ridiculous post. Seriously, you sound like you're about 14. Are you?
bowens43
Aug 2013
#111
The OP is only interested in making neo-McCarthyite chickenshit slurs against
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#129
Obama is not bush there will be no going in with guns blazing to give them what they deserve.
Autumn
Aug 2013
#128
That one is not right wing, its pro-just-war and sensible and pragmatic and centrist!
bobduca
Aug 2013
#143
this inelegant OP seems to have crossed the line even for the NSA/WAR/DLC backers.
bobduca
Aug 2013
#142
If you think the concentration camps were any part of why we joined the Allies, you are
Bluenorthwest
Aug 2013
#146
Heard your same bullshit all before. Before Vietnam, before Iraq. It's like deja vu all over again.
Zorra
Aug 2013
#162
So since you are not a 'peace purist' do you prefer 'War Monger' or 'War Pimp' ?
Bluenorthwest
Aug 2013
#178
Actually, Republicans at the time were isolationists and opposed "Roosevelt's War"
Agnosticsherbet
Aug 2013
#179