General Discussion

Summer Hathaway

(2,770 posts)

108. Okay, I'll go slower this time ...

Tue Aug 27, 2013, 07:02 PM

Aug 2013

You have asserted that you know the difference between a criminal prosecution and a civil suit.

You go on to defend your stance that you are aware of the difference by pointing out that you didn't use the term "criminal trial" in your OP.

True - you did not use the term "criminal trial" in your OP. However, you raised issues in the OP that would ONLY be applicable to a criminal prosecution, and not to a civil suit.

Apparently, you don't know the difference between the two. If you DID know the difference, you would also know that references to "crimes committed", etc., have absolutely nothing to do with a civil case.

And while you're here, could you please answer the questions I've posed, being:

When did the the DOJ take the position that Bush was "just following orders"?

When did the DOJ "acknowledge" that Bush et al were guilty of crimes?

When did the US Government admit that crimes were committed by the Bush Administration?

I do savor the irony of you telling someone to "stick to the facts", when your entire OP is based on things you are asserting as "facts" which actually have absolutely no basis in reality.

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So the DOJ acknowledges that the Bush War Criminals are guilty of crimes! [View all] sabrina 1 Aug 2013 OP

Give 'em hell, Sabrina pscot Aug 2013 #1

That would be a revolutionary act! sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #22

if it's "truth" then why is it in Examiner.com, fake news par excellence? uhnope Aug 2013 #31

It's not truth. It's not even on the same planet as truth... SidDithers Aug 2013 #36

What is an 'ODSers'?? Enquiring minds would like to know what insult is being sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #72

I believe it means "Obama Derangement Syndrome" BuelahWitch Aug 2013 #73

Thanks, it's hard to keep up the epithets being invented for Democrats on this sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #74

No, ODS refers to someone who will irrationally believes anything that puts Obama in a bad light. uhnope Aug 2013 #95

And where have you found these people on DU? Eg, the comment in this sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #106

The OP is ODS and see comment #34 uhnope Aug 2013 #112

Explain that please. Where is the word 'Obama' included in the OP? sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #158

Your back and forth with Summer H. shows your argument is impenetrable to facts uhnope Aug 2013 #162

Summer H. has no idea what she is talking about regarding this case. My 'motivation' sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #164

It's a recycled Charles Krauthammer insult. QC Aug 2013 #98

Really? Then why is it being used here on a Democratic forum against Democrats who sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #107

The DOJ defense was filed in Federal Court Deny and Shred Aug 2013 #91

But the filing doesn't mean what the OP says it means... SidDithers Aug 2013 #92

You're changing it Deny and Shred Aug 2013 #94

Filing for immunity Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #130

Thanks for catching my bad phraseology Deny and Shred Aug 2013 #140

They always take these legal situations and twist them into something they are not treestar Aug 2013 #99

This message was self-deleted by its author proverbialwisdom Aug 2013 #84

And when the shit begins to hit the fan, when the NSA is exposed for sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #2

This message was self-deleted by its author TBF Aug 2013 #81

"The DOJ claims that in planning and waging the Iraq War, ex-President Bush and Zorra Aug 2013 #3

If only we had known what the 'legitimate scope of employment' for the job sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #4

Big K&R defacto7 Aug 2013 #5

Sick is a good word for it. They are becoming less and less concerned sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #6

Tied up all the knots.... defacto7 Aug 2013 #7

I know we can't give up. But with new revelation, 'impeachment is off the table' sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #14

Funny, you sound a lot like a right wing infiltrator with the TP "Dems as bad as GOP" uhnope Aug 2013 #163

You just hurled a personal attack at me. I don't know you. Explain that insult please or sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #165

Joe Lieberman flavor democrats Supersedeas Aug 2013 #137

K&R DeSwiss Aug 2013 #8

I didn't know apples could grow barnacles Scootaloo Aug 2013 #27

DURec leftstreet Aug 2013 #9

Starting wars based on lies that kill hundreds of thousands is just part of their job description. Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2013 #10

+1000000 liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #38

They want the war criminals to be immune, laws only apply Rex Aug 2013 #11

Thank you Sabrina. JEB Aug 2013 #12

The Complaint is worth reading, as is the Motion to Dismiss AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #13

She is very intelligent woman, she lost her home, and her country sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #18

Sharks can vote (or invent) laws just to protect their ass Amonester Aug 2013 #15

True, but legally the Government IS us and we don't seem to able sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #20

Very *few people* across the Globe know enough of how American politics works. Amonester Aug 2013 #25

I don't believe that at all. Americans know very little about the news anywhere sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #26

A very small 'fringe' of dreamers in the overall picture (of 7 billion humans) protests. Amonester Aug 2013 #119

It is the 'dreamers' as you call them, who have consistently changed the world. Conservatives sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #133

Yes, but you don't convince using hyperbole and crazy speech. Amonester Aug 2013 #142

So what you characterize as hyperbole? sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #144

For an example, I suggest your OP up-thread. Amonester Aug 2013 #146

How is asking that they have to pay out in a lawsuit for what they did BECAUSE sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #149

Fabrication: "You are saying they don't deserve even that much justice." Amonester Aug 2013 #150

Well, there are more suckers born every minute. [n/t] Maedhros Aug 2013 #90

There is some justification for the "collective guilt" argument bhikkhu Aug 2013 #16

Yes, I remember how disheartened I was as I watched the numbers rise in sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #19

Most of that 75% believed the lies. tblue Aug 2013 #21

Gullible? sulphurdunn Aug 2013 #118

Let's not forget Senator Hillary summer-hazz Aug 2013 #17

I will never forget Hillary's vote or any of the other Democrats' votes. sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #23

Me too Sabrina 1!!! summer-hazz Aug 2013 #30

Your statement about hope - ain't it the truth! truedelphi Aug 2013 #128

This post was hidden by jury decision. L0oniX Aug 2013 #139

I have the same principles I had when Bush was occupying the WH. I haven't changed one sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #143

I don't think this is an admission of any guilt, let alone war crimes Jack Rabbit Aug 2013 #24

But the DOJ should have been the prosecutors in a criminal trial. sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #45

President Truman had a sign on his desk in the Oval Office that read, "The buck stops here!" Dustlawyer Aug 2013 #28

So, in theory, Bush was just following orders? Wait a minute, wasn't he the Commander-in-Chief? Coyotl Aug 2013 #29

Dept. of the Rational acknowledges that Examiner.com is guilty of BS! uhnope Aug 2013 #32

I think the point that this war was planned before they took office is startlingly legitimate Samantha Aug 2013 #33

Project for the New American Century--Those are the ones to hold accountable! KoKo Aug 2013 #70

Thank you. That deserves its own OP. There is a certain amnesia setting in sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #71

Maybe... KoKo Aug 2013 #79

PNAC was just the vehicle they used to committ the crime. bvar22 Aug 2013 #80

Your entire mischaracterization Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #34

Great post... SidDithers Aug 2013 #37

Thanks for posting that. It made things clearer for me... Violet_Crumble Aug 2013 #40

If that were the purpose of using this defense, then all the DOJ had to do sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #49

I hate it that victims have to take civil action to even have their voices heard... Violet_Crumble Aug 2013 #52

I haven't seen that, thanks for the link I will definitely watch it later when I sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #54

Jesus wept. Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #96

What it is really about is that this DOJ would not be in a position to sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #51

This is a civil suit Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #89

Lol, 'this is a Civil Suit and has nothing to do with war crimes'! Really? sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #109

Now I KNOW you don't know the difference Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #114

If the DOJ is granted its request for immunity, the judge will do nothing of the kind. The sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #116

Exactly WHAT is the 'nothing of the kind' Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #124

Thank you... Bobbie Jo Aug 2013 #58

Yup... SidDithers Aug 2013 #62

Oh look.. the post I wanted to write... Mr_Teg Aug 2013 #61

You are ruining perfectly good outrage by inserting meaningful details. JoePhilly Aug 2013 #76

You're wrong again... SidDithers Aug 2013 #35

I don't think she does know the difference ... Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #39

Your question would be valid IF you had read the OP and were capable of sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #46

Yeah, I didn't think you knew the difference... SidDithers Aug 2013 #47

It might be better for your own sake if you refrained from posting 'what Sid thinks' sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #48

Keep digging... SidDithers Aug 2013 #50

Why are victims of Bush War Crimes forced to try to get justice in Civil Suits? sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #53

Because "Bush War Crimes" is all in your head... SidDithers Aug 2013 #57

From Sid: 'Bush War Crimes' is all in your head'!!! sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #63

Her civil suit, and I'm really surprised you're actually acknowledging it is a civil suit... SidDithers Aug 2013 #66

I thought you did 'give a shit' by your multiple comments in a thread you sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #67

How many times did you use the word "crime" in your OP?... SidDithers Aug 2013 #68

Not nearly enough times, I was restraining myself since this is a Civil Suit sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #69

Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #104

+1000 n/t zappaman Aug 2013 #105

How would you have it done? treestar Aug 2013 #102

How would I have it done? The same way it is done for every defendant in a lawsuit. sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #111

No matter how many times you try to spin this Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #152

She already dealt with that in her Complaint, she anticipated this 'spin' that she sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #154

I have read her complaint Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #156

We are all still waiting for something, anything that relates to the actual sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #59

Your OP is something produced by your fevered imagination... SidDithers Aug 2013 #60

Well it's taking the time to 'think' that is the issue. sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #64

And we are all still waiting Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #97

Haven't read the DOJ's resonse asking for immunity either. Didn't see the claim that the sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #115

Yet another deflection from the topic at hand Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #123

But the DOJ could do as it wanted to. truedelphi Aug 2013 #129

So your 'defense' is that you didn't state Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #93

Your comment makes no sense at all. sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #103

Okay, I'll go slower this time ... Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #108

This comment is ALL ABOUT ME! Lol! While I'm always flattered to be the focus of attention sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #110

Your lack of knowledge of the law Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #120

Darn you, Summer � 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2013 #138

If the Bush cabal is charged, does it not get a defense? treestar Aug 2013 #101

Do you know what this OP is about? The Bush cabal have been sued by a victim of their sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #113

Keep diggin' that hole, sabrina Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #131

wow. zappaman Aug 2013 #135

Here's the thing.. Bobbie Jo Aug 2013 #145

Thanks, Bobbie Jo Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #159

Kicked and Recommended! nt Enthusiast Aug 2013 #41

Kick Scuba Aug 2013 #42

In other words: The Westfall Act is the US version of the Nuremberg Defense. avebury Aug 2013 #43

Yes, exactly. And it didn't work too well back then. The plaintiff in this case sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #65

Except that it does not apply to criminal cases such as War Crime prosecutions hack89 Aug 2013 #87

Which totally sucks! Civil cases are the only legal remedy when avebury Aug 2013 #100

Where are the Criminal Charges?? And why should it apply to ANY case involving the Bush sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #117

It is settled US law hack89 Aug 2013 #122

She addressed that in her complaint. She explained why the immunity claim doesn't apply sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #132

The Dems in power now will not open themselves up to such law suits hack89 Aug 2013 #134

I understand that, now. At one time not so long ago, I was naive enough to believe that they sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #141

Kick AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #44

HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!! WillyT Aug 2013 #55

K&R MotherPetrie Aug 2013 #56

K&R idwiyo Aug 2013 #75

It has been noted by DUer's above that this is a civil action... KansDem Aug 2013 #77

Nuremberg defense The Wizard Aug 2013 #78

I'd blame the five Supreme Court judges who... Hubert Flottz Aug 2013 #82

K & R ~ nt 99th_Monkey Aug 2013 #83

What a major shift. felix_numinous Aug 2013 #85

''Money trumps peace.'' -- George Walker Bush*, ''president'' of the United States, Feb. 14, 2007 Octafish Aug 2013 #86

Well said. Rec'd. Corruption Inc Aug 2013 #88

I remember millions marching in protest not only here but around the world. Cleita Aug 2013 #121

Well, that is some crack legal analysis there. tritsofme Aug 2013 #125

And that was some crack legal response. But thank you anyhow. I guess you don't have any sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #127

It's to protect Obama zentrum Aug 2013 #126

Their lies broke trust with America ...and that trust will never come back! L0oniX Aug 2013 #136

The government will always protect the power of government Abq_Sarah Aug 2013 #147

Just following orders. where have I heard that before? n/t truth2power Aug 2013 #148

Well, you DIDN'T hear it from the DOJ ... Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #153

Yes, we most certainly did hear it from the DOJ. Still haven't read their response? sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #160

Please post the response here, sabrina Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #161

Lying us into a war was "within the scope of their employment" dflprincess Aug 2013 #151

Yes, that was a very interesting way of putting it. So who is this US Government that sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #157

Keep war crimes A live polynomial Aug 2013 #155