General Discussion

AngryOldDem

(14,180 posts)

202. Thank you for this.

Reply to Pretzel_Warrior (Original post)

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 05:29 AM

Aug 2013

With all the outcry here, I've yet to really hear what the alternatives are to deal with a madman who gasses, napalms, and poisons his people. This is not a "come and let us reason together" moment. Neither is it a moment where the world can turn its back and pretend this isn't happening.

We need to remember the concepts of just and unjust war. I realize that is especially difficult given what has happened over the past decade and a half,and I'm positive that that is what's fueling most of the skepticism here. But these crimes against humanity in Syria cannot stand.

Obama has taken more care and diligence in deciding what actions that need to be taken here, more so than Bush EVER did concerning Iraq and Afghanistan. Can we at least acknowledge THAT? The evidence -- in the form of hundreds of dead bodies -- is there.

There's a lot to be said for the adage: All that evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing. I support Obama and the coalition in doing whatever it takes to get Assad OUT.

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Syria's Assad and regime DESERVE everything they're about to get from the U.S. And the West [View all] Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 OP

How do we know he did it? Renew Deal Aug 2013 #1

That will be determined in due course, but I am certain rebels don't have access to his chemical Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 #3

I'm not certain about anything Renew Deal Aug 2013 #5

The opposition has also used chemical weapons. And, they do have access to the crude rockets leveymg Aug 2013 #14

Both sides have chemical weapons. HooptieWagon Aug 2013 #15

That's the rub BobbyBoring Aug 2013 #177

You're "certain?" City Lights Aug 2013 #131

Sarin and other gases are relatively easy to make. hobbit709 Aug 2013 #158

That will be determined in due course but the WAR MUST HAPPEN NOW?????? MNBrewer Aug 2013 #174

Shoot first, ask questions later. nt awoke_in_2003 Aug 2013 #197

The weight of evidence points in the other direction, toward a particularly terrible provocation leveymg Aug 2013 #10

There is no reliable weight of evidence that I've seen bhikkhu Aug 2013 #19

In the absence of proof of who did it, and since it was obviously not in the interest of Assad to do leveymg Aug 2013 #26

yes paulk Aug 2013 #176

Maybe you should use Wikipedia for your info as some here do? nt kelliekat44 Aug 2013 #67

Anybody who believes Assad is the USA's puppet should start with simple DevonRex Aug 2013 #97

Aluminum tubes!!! AngryAmish Aug 2013 #141

Unrec. The holocaust exploitation is less than classy. cthulu2016 Aug 2013 #2

No. It is precisely on point. Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 #4

No, it's really not. Gravitycollapse Aug 2013 #11

To be fair The Straight Story Aug 2013 #41

Oh please. You and the OP are going to compare an internal civil war inside Syria with the HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #46

Comparing situations and outcomes, not emotional terms The Straight Story Aug 2013 #48

Have you studied the Holocaust or history of Nazi Germany much? If so, you'd understand HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #57

Systematic killing is systematic killing. Prior to this being a civil war, protesters were being Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 #60

You're being disingenuous in the extreme about your point in bringing up the Holocaust. This is HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #72

You said it was "systematic killing". Which facility were the victims shipped to... MNBrewer Aug 2013 #191

Yes, I have. Which is why we should pay attention here. Who does Syria hate? The Straight Story Aug 2013 #63

Oh, for Christ's sake, you're arguing that b/c Assad allegedly used CBW on his own people, nothing HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #68

Not a big fan of Occam's Razor, are you? You just showed me everything I need to know Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 #74

And I'm attempting to reason with someone who practices neo-McCarthyism and HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #75

Well, If I were crazy I would point out the following: The Straight Story Aug 2013 #78

Report: North Korea attempted to export gas masks to Syria; shipment was seized in Turkey The Straight Story Aug 2013 #82

You mean............ BobbyBoring Aug 2013 #180

Out of ALL the scenarios I've heard, bvar22 Aug 2013 #187

Thank you, HardTimes99 truedelphi Sep 2013 #210

Why Syria and not the Congo? eridani Aug 2013 #101

Why not the Congo? The Straight Story Aug 2013 #102

And: The Straight Story Aug 2013 #103

So why not leave Syria to the UN? n/t eridani Aug 2013 #108

As mentioned before: chemical attack, not to mention China and Russia The Straight Story Aug 2013 #109

Chemical attack by whom? eridani Aug 2013 #112

Well now, let us see how this goes: The Straight Story Aug 2013 #113

No representative of the world's only imperial power is trustworthy eridani Aug 2013 #118

Of course you wouldn't leftynyc Aug 2013 #148

There are not enough sarcasm smilies to represent the derangement-- eridani Aug 2013 #200

I defy you to find leftynyc Aug 2013 #201

U.N.: Chemical weapons use must be punished The Straight Story Aug 2013 #114

And this just in over the wires: The Straight Story Aug 2013 #115

Now, more on the UN in the Congo: The Straight Story Aug 2013 #110

Of course blowing up a bunch of civilians is the best way to insure stability eridani Aug 2013 #119

More: R2P - Responsibility to Protect The Straight Story Aug 2013 #120

Apparently the responsibility to protect doesn't apply to eridani Aug 2013 #121

+++++1000 nt kelliekat44 Aug 2013 #96

No, it's about gassing people to death treestar Aug 2013 #122

Well, let's see. When the U.S. picks sides in other nation's civil wars, we seem HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #127

I don't know what we are going to do, but hopefully treestar Aug 2013 #182

Thank you! truedelphi Sep 2013 #208

no, it couldn't be more off point as well as slimy and manipulative cali Aug 2013 #117

and nothing else? snooper2 Aug 2013 #98

People who are in no danger of going to fight pscot Aug 2013 #6

Very true. Moral outrage is an easy thing if you have nothing at stake bhikkhu Aug 2013 #62

WAR WAR WAR RAH RAH RAH WAR WAR WAR Gravitycollapse Aug 2013 #7

Yep, Moses2SandyKoufax Aug 2013 #8

What exactly are they about to get? And how many Syrians will get it along with Assad and regime? rug Aug 2013 #9

Yup. That should be the question. Control-Z Aug 2013 #20

I guess he means the Christians and the Alawites are going to get the ass kicking of their life Douglas Carpenter Aug 2013 #40

Yes, and whom does it benefit??? nt kelliekat44 Aug 2013 #94

I hope they are ready, because that's who is really going to suffer when this ends badly MNBrewer Aug 2013 #192

Can only offer this in response... Vinnie From Indy Aug 2013 #12

Stupid post kentuck Aug 2013 #13

I'm a nattering nabob of negativism :) - nt HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #42

I love that term, and wear it proudly still n/t Scootaloo Aug 2013 #51

So I want to know, oh great general, when are you enlisting? nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #16

Best response of this thread. OP is a chickenhawk, sounds like, and badly in need of HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #21

Right! Fucking! On! LongTomH Aug 2013 #59

It's always 'TEH AWESOME" to talk about kicking someone's ass, as long bullwinkle428 Aug 2013 #149

Godwin's Law right in the OP. Whoo-hoo! Wonder what all those dead and wounded Syrian women HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #17

Starts by embracing a Bush quote and ends with a Godwin. KurtNYC Aug 2013 #157

That is one damning indictment. I still remember how Galloway served HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #194

You sound so excited. Union Scribe Aug 2013 #18

It'll be a welcome break from his usual activities Moses2SandyKoufax Aug 2013 #23

WOW! What a reminder that is BobbyBoring Aug 2013 #184

Great another loser war in the Middle East! mrdmk Aug 2013 #22

The freed slaves of the American Civil War might take issue with your sentiments, as might those HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #33

The Civil War and WW II involved serious existential threats to the US eridani Aug 2013 #105

War and violence does not happen to the "regime." It happens to the people. (nt) enough Aug 2013 #24

Exactly! nt rdharma Aug 2013 #27

so when are you leaving for the front to join the fight lol nt msongs Aug 2013 #25

Wow, this is terrible MFrohike Aug 2013 #28

Yeah funny coming from a pretzel warrior. Rex Aug 2013 #58

'Peace purists?' Awwww somebody has a sad n/t leftstreet Aug 2013 #29

Prove he did it. Otherwise I call BS. dkf Aug 2013 #30

According to their logic, if you call BS you must be HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #76

Why? Because you need to be a war monger to be pro-Semitic? dkf Aug 2013 #104

What's even more ironic is that Arabs are also Semitic. Fawke Em Aug 2013 #166

you'll see how this works out, you'll see Douglas Carpenter Aug 2013 #31

Is israel going to be helping out with this 'DESERVE everything they're about to get' operation? Purveyor Aug 2013 #32

Bingo! Cui bono? I ask. Why does this remind me of Iraqi soldiers ripping Kuwaiti babies from HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #37

That was my first thought also!!! nt Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #47

Probably not leftynyc Aug 2013 #150

Oh, don't listen to these humanitarian purists, who think those rights belong to them exclusively railsback Aug 2013 #34

I missed the "floor plans" stage of Glenn Greenwald's tripe Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 #39

Nothing to fret over. The Prez will do what's right railsback Aug 2013 #49

Humanitarian purists? Peace Purists? I've heard it all on DU now. neverforget Aug 2013 #50

Yeah, you know, all those saying we shouldn't get involved. Let the death continue railsback Aug 2013 #52

Well then sign up! Get out there and Export some Freedom! neverforget Aug 2013 #55

LoL. How many people do you think it takes to launch some cruise missiles? railsback Aug 2013 #65

So much easier behind a keyboard neverforget Aug 2013 #66

That would seem to be the 'I got my humanitarian rights, the rest can go to Hell' meme railsback Aug 2013 #70

That comes from our selective outrage at atrocities. Murder by chemical weapons BAD! neverforget Aug 2013 #77

Certainly make the Roosevelts look bad. railsback Aug 2013 #87

I thought war was too? neverforget Aug 2013 #90

You don't get the exceptional danger of chemical weapons? treestar Aug 2013 #123

no shit. I'm talking about our selective moral neverforget Aug 2013 #124

They are separate issues treestar Aug 2013 #183

Why do you support Al Qaida? You're either with Assad or you're with Al Qaida - nt HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #79

So.. um� now Al Qaeda is a threat? railsback Aug 2013 #81

If you oppose Assad, you're making common cause with those we used to HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #83

I see you have no problem with false choice logical fallacies. Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 #84

Loving Al Qaida, are we? - nt HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #85

So, you don't know the manpower of al Nusra, nor do you know where they are railsback Aug 2013 #91

As opposed to the people cheering the obliteration of Alawites by the rebels eridani Aug 2013 #106

I know-- it's stunning. But then again, it's coming from the same 20 Marr Aug 2013 #139

No. DisgustipatedinCA Aug 2013 #35

Oh and this needs another response nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #36

Oh yes, we must stop the slow bleed notadmblnd Aug 2013 #38

I expect you will be joining any day now to go fight it. former9thward Aug 2013 #43

There are powerful countries that do NOT bomb the fuck out of other countries. Bonobo Aug 2013 #44

Here... I have a better idea MrMickeysMom Aug 2013 #45

+11111111111111111111111111 BobbyBoring Aug 2013 #185

Replace Assad with Saddam and this all sounds so familiar. eom TransitJohn Aug 2013 #53

Is U.S. Preparing invasion force? No. Using 9/11 and al queda as pretext? No. Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 #54

Google Project for a New American Century nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #64

A) I found no articles on their "Syria" position and B) Obama doesn't report to them and Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 #69

And C, Syria has been in the list of targets for regime change since 1998 nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #71

independent of WHO is in the WH MNBrewer Aug 2013 #193

You pose some very good points, and you ask a very truedelphi Sep 2013 #209

One that the OP will never ever answer nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #212

You also need to learn history - truedelphi Sep 2013 #207

HE GASSED HIS OWN PEOPLE! HE HAD TO GO!!! kenny blankenship Aug 2013 #86

And today the CIA came clean on that. nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #89

Our up-armored, modern hypocrisy is 100% irony-proof. kenny blankenship Aug 2013 #93

Duzzy nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #95

Maybe we need leaders who have the "luxury" to stay out of other peoples civil wars. Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2013 #56

Cui bono? jmodden Aug 2013 #61

False flag! False flag! You CT nuts crack me up. Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 #80

False flag? leftynyc Aug 2013 #153

The question isn't whether the victims are false, but whether the "flag" is false MNBrewer Aug 2013 #205

LOL, ok, will take your word for it. n-t Logical Aug 2013 #73

This is one big chickenhawk FAILPOST. n/t PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #88

And if Obama doesn't bomb you'll be calling him a holocaust appeaser, of course. cthulu2016 Aug 2013 #92

What ifs cut different ways LostOne4Ever Aug 2013 #99

Turkey finds sarin gas in homes of suspected Syrian Islamists mwrguy Aug 2013 #100

Beat those drums, baby. Beat 'em. Bomb bomb bomb, as McCain said. Th1onein Aug 2013 #107

what a mindbogglingly ridiculous post. Seriously, you sound like you're about 14. Are you? bowens43 Aug 2013 #111

your op is hopelessly uninformed. cali Aug 2013 #116

"peace purists" what a gawd awful thing to be! boston bean Aug 2013 #125

Here is Pretzel_warrior's idea of peace activism PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #152

My elderly mother still remembers the war years. PDJane Aug 2013 #126

The OP is only interested in making neo-McCarthyite chickenshit slurs against HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #129

Funny thing that BobbyBoring Aug 2013 #188

Obama is not bush there will be no going in with guns blazing to give them what they deserve. Autumn Aug 2013 #128

Peace Purists nil desperandum Aug 2013 #130

OK, but what about our free trade with China, a supporter of Syria??? reformist2 Aug 2013 #132

Funny how posters align on this issue bobduca Aug 2013 #133

Assad won't be punished at all. Dash87 Aug 2013 #134

The US didn't join WWII to stop The Holocaust. Dash87 Aug 2013 #135

Actually, most European governments did know about the camps. PDJane Aug 2013 #171

"You peace purists". What site am I on, anyway? Marr Aug 2013 #136

That one is not right wing, its pro-just-war and sensible and pragmatic and centrist! bobduca Aug 2013 #143

Ummmmmmmmmmmm Dyedinthewoolliberal Aug 2013 #137

137 replies, zero recs. woo me with science Aug 2013 #138

this inelegant OP seems to have crossed the line even for the NSA/WAR/DLC backers. bobduca Aug 2013 #142

Can you back up your accusation with a witness? Coyotl Aug 2013 #140

Will Colin be bringing some clip art? HangOnKids Aug 2013 #144

RAWR!!!!! Puzzledtraveller Aug 2013 #145

If you think the concentration camps were any part of why we joined the Allies, you are Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #146

+1 The OP fails at cracking a book and reading some history Blue_Tires Aug 2013 #154

Why not work with the Arab League to help evacuate civilians first? Efilroft Sul Aug 2013 #147

people have been fleeing to Jordan, Iraq, etc. for many months now Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 #155

Try to keep up, over a year nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #156

Are you going to be behind the troops? How far behind? AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #151

He's in the 101st Keyboard Brigade. HooptieWagon Aug 2013 #160

Reminds me of a great sign I saw at an anti-war (Iraq) protest HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #169

IMO Mr Dixon Aug 2013 #159

Larry Bolton said pretty much the same thing on Fox yesterday Kingofalldems Aug 2013 #161

Heard your same bullshit all before. Before Vietnam, before Iraq. It's like deja vu all over again. Zorra Aug 2013 #162

Does the rest of the world DESERVE World War III? KamaAina Aug 2013 #163

This is flamebait. DCBob Aug 2013 #164

Personally, I think we need roads, schools, police officers, Fawke Em Aug 2013 #165

Assad has to go? Enrique Aug 2013 #167

Oh Sweet Jesus Enrique.... sgtbenobo Aug 2013 #186

America would be stupid to fall for this rhetoric marions ghost Aug 2013 #168

I think it's time for you and your pals to get out of the fucking tent. Marr Aug 2013 #170

Zero Recs. LOL DesMoinesDem Aug 2013 #172

I'll wear the banner of "peace purist" with PRIDE, thank you very much. myrna minx Aug 2013 #173

K&R closeupready Aug 2013 #175

So since you are not a 'peace purist' do you prefer 'War Monger' or 'War Pimp' ? Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #178

Actually, Republicans at the time were isolationists and opposed "Roosevelt's War" Agnosticsherbet Aug 2013 #179

Godwin's Law is Fail. WilliamPitt Aug 2013 #181

One rec from DU... MrMickeysMom Aug 2013 #189

Send us updates from the front lines, OK? (nt) Paladin Aug 2013 #190

It's a shitty deal, but... usmc03 Aug 2013 #195

Thank You for your service, bvar22 Aug 2013 #203

is this satire of over-the-top huffpuffery? nashville_brook Aug 2013 #196

Oh, thank you. I was viewing the post as another symptom of the truedelphi Sep 2013 #211

"peace purists?" AgingAmerican Aug 2013 #198

What exactly do you thinks a war with Syria will accomplish Live and Learn Aug 2013 #199

Thank you for this. AngryOldDem Aug 2013 #202

Those DAMNED PURISTS!!!! bvar22 Aug 2013 #204

I sincerely hope you don't think that the reason the US got into war with Germany was because of the raccoon Aug 2013 #206