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mythology

(9,527 posts)
155. And how many will die because we won't enter?
Thu Aug 29, 2013, 12:44 AM
Aug 2013

It's easy to sit back and say that war is always bad, and pretend that by not intervening we therefore bear no responsibility for those dead due to our inaction. But it just doesn't work that way. We didn't interfere in Rwanda and how many innocents were slaughtered? Clinton has repeatedly said not getting involved in Rwanda is one of his biggest regrets. Internationally, the world half stepped in to the war over Bosnia and when the effort was half-assed, there was the Srebenica massacre among other massacres. Would those have occurred if the international community had fully committed to stopping the violence with enough troops to make a difference? I suspect the answer is yes, but we know what happened when we weren't willing to intervene with a useful number of troops. Thousands were killed in massacres and rape was so prevalent that for the first time the International Criminal Court brought charges of using rape as a systematic weapon of war forward.

One of the reasons that Germany attacked U.S. ships prior to our entry into World War I, was because the German leaders thought that we were weak militarily and so that if they could attack U.S. ships since we couldn't muster an army or ships fast enough to matter. It turns out they were wrong, but it's a case where having a powerful military may have kept the Germans from attacking us in the first place.

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I'm not sure why any of this surprises anyone anymore NoOneMan Aug 2013 #1
Well...you aren't the only one...and he isn't the first or last one to disappoint...but.. KoKo Aug 2013 #148
I think we.... sgtbenobo Aug 2013 #2
LOL Taverner Aug 2013 #21
You are aware that his words are the opinion of his boss, the POTUS, yes? Dreamer Tatum Aug 2013 #3
Then he should do the right thing. sgtbenobo Aug 2013 #6
Who should resign? uppityperson Aug 2013 #8
The same man who on 23 Apr 71.... sgtbenobo Aug 2013 #14
Wow. DU R & K to the max. Welcome to DU in these sad times... nt riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #15
You think Kerry should resign? hrmjustin Aug 2013 #18
Yes. sgtbenobo Aug 2013 #24
I have to disagree with you on this. hrmjustin Aug 2013 #25
I can respect your opinion. sgtbenobo Aug 2013 #28
Sadly this is true. This is one reason I have deep reservations about this. hrmjustin Aug 2013 #34
More people will die if we enter this mess. Have we learned nothing from history? nm rhett o rick Aug 2013 #117
No, we are not good at learning. hrmjustin Aug 2013 #118
Ah well, money trumps peace...or something like that. SammyWinstonJack Aug 2013 #132
The Powers To Be are loving this. More profits for the corporations. nm rhett o rick Aug 2013 #134
And how many will die because we won't enter? mythology Aug 2013 #155
Rethink Yugoslavia and Saudi-Armed Jihadi "Rebels" HumansAndResources Aug 2013 #156
+! Little Star Aug 2013 #177
Before we start or enter a war, the President should convince Congress that rhett o rick Aug 2013 #176
There is no guarantee that our killing with bombs and missiles will prevent further deaths. Most rhett o rick Aug 2013 #181
He has none of the above - he caved when Bush jacked that election elehhhhna Aug 2013 #113
There is precedent for a Secretary of State resigning in protest. totodeinhere Aug 2013 #49
Perhaps this is his POV. hrmjustin Aug 2013 #50
I was responding to a posters suggestion that his words are the opinion of his boss, the POTUS. totodeinhere Aug 2013 #66
Oh ok thanks. hrmjustin Aug 2013 #67
The operation was sabotaged by George Bush & his CIA buddies. Carter's "secret" was no secret to the loudsue Aug 2013 #65
I only raised that as an example of a secretary of state resigning in protest. n/t totodeinhere Aug 2013 #69
Eagle-Claw - Oliver North and Richard Secord Ran It HumansAndResources Aug 2013 #157
Thank you so much for this post, H & R! It still pisses me off how horribly corrupt the bush family loudsue Aug 2013 #171
should never taken the position to begin with G_j Aug 2013 #130
How sad, there must be something in the water in DC. So many of them seem to lose their souls sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #39
we should send him postcards with this quote on it annm4peace Aug 2013 #43
This isn't war, it is a humanitary strike. American lives are not in the line of fire. wisteria Aug 2013 #70
"a humanitary strike" NealK Aug 2013 #108
Touche Carolina Aug 2013 #131
Tell that to the people on the wrong end of the bombs Cal Carpenter Aug 2013 #129
Thank you for posting this for the record. n/t Raksha Aug 2013 #162
So an even more hawkish SecState can be appointed? Recursion Aug 2013 #22
Just following orders...where have I heard that before? bowens43 Aug 2013 #10
Why bother voting? pokerfan Aug 2013 #120
If he finds it morally wrong, he should do what many people of principle have done, even sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #36
I never liked the man. We should have had Howard Dean against Bush, not Kerry. NYC_SKP Aug 2013 #4
I still believe Howard Dean would have won LearningCurve Aug 2013 #13
What ifs. Dean crashed and burned over his own ego. wisteria Aug 2013 #71
DLC and DNC didn't like Dean fadedrose Aug 2013 #100
Howard Dean is not ordering strikes on Syria. Taverner Aug 2013 #142
Agreed. And Dean would've won. Taverner Aug 2013 #20
Ah, now I know where you are coming from. wisteria Aug 2013 #72
Nope - I was down with Kerry in 04 Taverner Aug 2013 #74
This isn't war. wisteria Aug 2013 #80
Tell that to the families of those who we bomb next week n/t Taverner Aug 2013 #81
LOL, like SOS Kerry is the only one making decisions. wisteria Aug 2013 #79
The pundists took the "Dean Scream" and ran with it. Quantess Aug 2013 #112
Are you aware that the media blocked the background noise truebluegreen Aug 2013 #121
No, as is hardly anybody else! Quantess Aug 2013 #123
Do you seriouslly not exepct Kerry, or any Secretary of State, to state the Administrations policy? Agnosticsherbet Aug 2013 #5
Yes I expect those we have entrusted with the power to make decisions for all of us sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #42
Because you disagree with the decision doesn't mean that the decision isn't reasoned Agnosticsherbet Aug 2013 #46
Of course Vietnam started as a limited intervention, no one said 'let's send 58,000 men to die' Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #52
Why is this the business of the US? International Law makes this the purview of the UN sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #54
This is why. go west young man Aug 2013 #58
As stated by Carney, it is critical to national security to act when Agnosticsherbet Aug 2013 #59
Ah yes "Credibility" bobduca Aug 2013 #62
No, it's about upholding international law not credibility. n/t Agnosticsherbet Aug 2013 #64
You've got to be kidding. sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #97
Touche Sabrina 1 Carolina Aug 2013 #136
Excellent post, Carolina. And it goes back even further. Remember what we did to Native sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #146
Yep. Pretty much. Taverner Aug 2013 #147
BINGO!!!!! Little Star Aug 2013 #170
You do realize Syria has a cache of chemical weapons right? VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #90
You do realize that the US has the biggest cache of Chemical weapons in the history of the sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #92
Wow, Sabrina! HoneychildMooseMoss Aug 2013 #95
Okay you are prepared to say to the world that if anyone wants to gas babies in their beds..... VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #96
Excuse me??? I am saying that the US used White Phosphorous in Iraq. Have you read the sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #99
So why hasn't the world indicted us? VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #101
Lol, that is funny. We BOMB people who don't go along with us. sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #103
Oh right our allies are our allies cauxe we bombed them previously yes right...obviously! VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #104
You don't know much about US history, do you? Tell me, why do we have so many sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #106
Lay it on, Sabrina 1 Carolina Aug 2013 #137
Superb posts, sabrina. woo me with science Aug 2013 #166
+1 deutsey Aug 2013 #182
Wait don't tell me...fans of Snowden, Assange and Greenwald right? VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #183
The difference is ....we aren't TARGETTING civilians...but Assad did! VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #184
In the cases of Germany and Japan...yes. nt CJCRANE Aug 2013 #122
sabrina 1, these are 2 excellent posts that I urge you to put in an OP. Please remind people of our chimpymustgo Aug 2013 #102
I know what you mean re not sleeping at night. The horror of war seems to escape those who sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #139
I second chimpymustgo's comment. Thanks for all you are explaining regarding this. Little Star Aug 2013 #178
Your rationalization for war needs help. Are you going to limit killing those that rhett o rick Aug 2013 #180
+1 for Aerows Aug 2013 #124
You can't get to where he is without holding certain views and taking certain actions. Renew Deal Aug 2013 #7
He and Colin Powell are birds of a feather bowens43 Aug 2013 #9
+1 nt riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #16
Disappointed Rosa Luxemburg Aug 2013 #11
Yes - at least dissappointed Taverner Aug 2013 #27
If the Republicans weren't in control of the House Rosa Luxemburg Aug 2013 #126
John Kerry "On the Issues" Renew Deal Aug 2013 #12
Yeeh why are people surprised? Harmony Blue Aug 2013 #17
Yes, yes yes, I was wrong, you were right.... Taverner Aug 2013 #19
I wasn't right Renew Deal Aug 2013 #23
I'm not mad at you Taverner Aug 2013 #26
I know Renew Deal Aug 2013 #33
Kerry doesn't need Obama to tell him what to say Lifelong Dem Aug 2013 #30
All those votes---I wonder if there will be a vote with Syria? panader0 Aug 2013 #38
Some members of Congress are asking for a vote Maedhros Aug 2013 #63
LOL @ this whole thread. tridim Aug 2013 #29
Explain and I shall retort Taverner Aug 2013 #37
Kerry served in Vietnam at exactly the same time our air force was dropping HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #31
I swear, why do I always fall for their BS? Taverner Aug 2013 #32
Because you're desperate? Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #51
Because Pravda is the only news we get n/t Taverner Aug 2013 #86
See? You really need to use the Interne,....oh... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #87
Touche HT99! Carolina Aug 2013 #138
His Hypocrisy in that speech when he knew about Agent Orange KoKo Aug 2013 #169
I haven't followed Kerry's life arc closely enough to know when he HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #172
At the WH, first meeeting... Safetykitten Aug 2013 #35
LOL - They have a "Confabulator" on Air Force One too, I think. HumansAndResources Aug 2013 #158
Why did you tear up the pavement for him in 2006? blue neen Aug 2013 #40
I'm a procrastinator. nt. Taverner Aug 2013 #141
skull and bones member...nt Jesus Malverde Aug 2013 #41
I can't believe it took this long for DU to descend to this level of stupidity again. I say again KittyWampus Aug 2013 #44
He is a member of Skull and Bones, and *'s 2nd cousin. Why attack someone stating a fact? nt Mnemosyne Aug 2013 #57
he has also been married twice, has 2 daughters, ........ JI7 Aug 2013 #60
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2013 #73
coudl they have been the ones who planted the chemical weapons ? JI7 Aug 2013 #77
You don't seem to like us. NYC_SKP Aug 2013 #107
Not sure I get your point. Mnemosyne Aug 2013 #164
He is not Bush's second cousin karynnj Aug 2013 #128
I did have the relationship wrong, but he is a distant relative. nt Mnemosyne Aug 2013 #163
As is almost anybody with roots in the elite of colonial New England karynnj Aug 2013 #165
+++++1 wisteria Aug 2013 #82
Yes, I keep forgetting that. They know his sexual proclivities. Taverner Aug 2013 #143
The problem is NOT John Kerry jazzimov Aug 2013 #45
+++++11111 wisteria Aug 2013 #83
Is it even slightly possible that Kerry knows... TreasonousBastard Aug 2013 #47
Exactly what would justify indiscriminate bombing? Taverner Aug 2013 #48
No plan has been agreed to yet, so where does... TreasonousBastard Aug 2013 #56
That's what it ALWAYS is Taverner Aug 2013 #76
This message was self-deleted by its author JohnnyRingo Aug 2013 #110
Yes my stated agenda is the truth Harmony Blue Aug 2013 #53
So that makes Kerry wrong? TreasonousBastard Aug 2013 #55
Human beings are capable of being Harmony Blue Aug 2013 #68
How likely is it then... TreasonousBastard Aug 2013 #94
So If I'm against Bombing and I am wrong , who did I wrongly kill ? bahrbearian Aug 2013 #109
WAR IS A RACKET Taverner Aug 2013 #85
That was beautiful libodem Aug 2013 #89
+1111 wisteria Aug 2013 #84
look lcordero2 Aug 2013 #61
Since you and John Kerry are equally informed.... JohnnyRingo Aug 2013 #75
Tell me at this point, who deserves bombings? Taverner Aug 2013 #78
I was just helping with your thread count. JohnnyRingo Aug 2013 #111
Hear hear lumpy Aug 2013 #88
Here's a strategy: Stay out of the fucking mess. We cant win. We wont help anyone. rhett o rick Aug 2013 #114
At first I wondered why we're telegraphing our move. JohnnyRingo Aug 2013 #135
Your rationalization to kill, kill is sick at best. There is nothing good that can come from our rhett o rick Aug 2013 #149
So you're calling me sick? JohnnyRingo Aug 2013 #150
Your rationalization is naive at best. I dont claim to be morally superior but I am against the rhett o rick Aug 2013 #151
I don't think we need to continue this discussion. JohnnyRingo Aug 2013 #167
You are absolutely right. I apologize for any name calling. I am frustrated that we are rhett o rick Aug 2013 #175
"Pre War Advertising" is done by P.R. Firms HumansAndResources Aug 2013 #159
Yep. Pretty much. Taverner Aug 2013 #144
Yes, it is sad. The man who in his youth said in front of Congress 7wo7rees Aug 2013 #91
here it is in a toon from Danzinger 7wo7rees Aug 2013 #98
Isn't Kerry doing his job and from the point of view of morality? lexington filly Aug 2013 #93
It IS About Oil and Money HumansAndResources Aug 2013 #160
I understand he's not exactly sold Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #105
Not quite. One wants to kill people. If we enter this mess, more children will die for sure. nm rhett o rick Aug 2013 #115
Yes, of course. Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #125
It isnt hard. If we send cruise missiles, they will kill people. To think he hasnt rhett o rick Aug 2013 #133
I cant believe the hypocrisy. We are going to bomb Syria because of human rights rhett o rick Aug 2013 #116
It depends on the opinion polls. Taverner Aug 2013 #145
They're all in the mic now. polichick Aug 2013 #119
"Last one who wasn't was JFK" Taverner Aug 2013 #140
I know how you feel Carolina Aug 2013 #127
Hey, you guys! Call/email the White House! raging moderate Aug 2013 #152
Money and power trump all jsr Aug 2013 #153
President Obama and Mr. Kerry know exactly what they're doing.... OccupyOregon Aug 2013 #154
Why is Kerry auditioning to be the next Colin Powell? Raksha Aug 2013 #161
Not auditioning. He got the part. This is the performance. KurtNYC Aug 2013 #173
Why Kerry’s Speech Doesn’t Necessarily Mean We’re Going To War In Syria ProSense Aug 2013 #168
Kerry makes me sick to my stomach! That's about all I can say, here. n/t truth2power Aug 2013 #174
I think you mean "04" not "06" in your original post. John1956PA Aug 2013 #179
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