General Discussion

karynnj

(60,956 posts)

16. I think in terms of morality, this is consistent for Kerry

Sun Sep 1, 2013, 10:42 AM

Sep 2013

I see no reason to doubt his integrity, basic decency or morality because of this stand (and I don't think you did.)

I think there are two levels here. 1) Kerry's reaction to this as an unthinkable atrocity. and 2) Is this a good geopolitical decision to make an attack.

On the first, Kerry's strong reaction here is very much the same motivation as his speaking out in 1971. In 2004, when asked why he risked never having a political career by speaking out, his answer was "his conscience". You could argue that that morality, decency and strength of character, while obviously making him a good person, may lead him to support actions that might -ignoring the moral questions would not be pursued.

Where there is a fairer question is whether the planned action will make things better or worse.

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Mr. Kerry, Is THAT Really You? [View all] kpete Sep 2013 OP

Well, I think he's making a good case. He disapproves of the slaughter of civilians by sarin gas. MADem Sep 2013 #1

I agree. It takes a person of real integrity and strength to take a stand... YvonneCa Sep 2013 #2

YvonneCa kpete Sep 2013 #3

I think in terms of morality, this is consistent for Kerry karynnj Sep 2013 #16

Thank you for that... YvonneCa Sep 2013 #30

so far, you're pounding him into your preconceived narrative wrt Syria. Schema Thing Sep 2013 #62

+1,000 nt MADem Sep 2013 #9

It's absurd to expect Kerry ProSense Sep 2013 #15

But Kerry left out the USofA as having used chemical weapons in Vietnam. nm rhett o rick Sep 2013 #67

jesus christ dionysus Sep 2013 #81

Annnnnnnnd you have nothing to add. Ok. nm rhett o rick Sep 2013 #88

You DO know he protested... YvonneCa Sep 2013 #105

He was wrong about Iraq, he thought there were WMD and wanted to invade under Bush and voted for it. Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #29

That vote has been explained...here and elsewhere... YvonneCa Sep 2013 #32

But must we recreate the past? Why would the country believe a man who was so brutally wrong about Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #44

You, and others, are judging Kerry by one... YvonneCa Sep 2013 #48

Uh, Iraq invasion was the neo con agenda, Kerry supported and marketed it. Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #59

He even said he would have voted to invade Iraq even had he known beforehand HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #53

The right side of history on Vietnam? customerserviceguy Sep 2013 #55

Mahalo Yvonne! nm Cha Sep 2013 #75

Mahalo to you! Feels like the.... YvonneCa Sep 2013 #106

But he approves of slaughter by other means n2doc Sep 2013 #4

The difference� #1. killing masses of civilians and #2. doing it intentionally. KittyWampus Sep 2013 #7

KittyWampus, allow me to explain something to you... Scootaloo Sep 2013 #84

No, he doesn't. But sarin is outside the Geneva Conventions, and we're a party to them. MADem Sep 2013 #8

Waterboarding is outside the Geneva Conventions. So is eternal detention, so are war of aggression Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #64

Yes, and because George Bush had no problem with that, we have to remain, static, constrained by MADem Sep 2013 #66

And when the U.S. allows Bush, etal to be prosecuted for the crimes they committed dflprincess Sep 2013 #76

You do know that's an idiotic set of conditions, and they aren't going to happen? MADem Sep 2013 #77

Given that it is the current administration that has refused to prosecute Bush dflprincess Sep 2013 #78

You're just being foolish, now. MADem Sep 2013 #80

Bush started a war for absolutely no reason dflprincess Sep 2013 #83

So? What's your point? MADem Sep 2013 #87

Bush and his policies hurt our country. I don't use this word often... YvonneCa Sep 2013 #107

THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Cha Sep 2013 #73

i am not sure but i think we are not SwampG8r Sep 2013 #74

We ARE signatories to the Chemical Weapons Convention. MADem Sep 2013 #79

calm down now fella i said i wasnt sure nt SwampG8r Sep 2013 #108

You seem excitable....and you're projecting your excitement on me, it would seem. MADem Sep 2013 #109

Bombing a sovereign country isn't the solution; it will be adding to the slaughter of civilians. pacalo Sep 2013 #72

Not with proper targeting. MADem Sep 2013 #82

You'd make an excellent strategist, MADem. pacalo Sep 2013 #85

The problem with tipping your hand is the motor-mouths in Congress. MADem Sep 2013 #86

I think we should be careful starting down the "let's punish bad behavior." rhett o rick Sep 2013 #97

Well, that HAS been the goal all along with this proposal--it's not a secret. MADem Sep 2013 #98

Is it possible that maybe Assad forces did just kill 1000 civilians using chemical weapons & that KittyWampus Sep 2013 #5

And not only the area--I'll bet Little Kim over in North Korea has his eye on this shit, too! MADem Sep 2013 #12

Apparently widespread chemical use to eliminate villages is acceptable blm Sep 2013 #17

Are we still a superpower? Ragtag bodies of irregulars have now defeated us HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #56

Essentially, we are. Others haven't much on their resumes, either. blm Sep 2013 #65

One wonders what Lt. Kerry would think n2doc Sep 2013 #6

it was pretty clear that no troops were being considered in Syria and that Viet Nam was based KittyWampus Sep 2013 #10

Stupid cartoon. The artist ignored the repeated assertions by POTUS and SECSTATE about MADem Sep 2013 #11

Really disappointing and unfair cartoon from Danzinger. GoCubsGo Sep 2013 #20

It's sheer laziness...pandering to a crowd, many of whom couldn't find Syria on a map two weeks ago, MADem Sep 2013 #22

Big difference - Who is going on record saying that widespread chemical use to blm Sep 2013 #14

I think Lt Kerry would be as appalled by the use of chemical weapons karynnj Sep 2013 #21

Thanks, karynnj, for your informative... YvonneCa Sep 2013 #45

The difference between DEMS and RETHUGS is we don't just THROW the military AT problems. Tigress DEM Sep 2013 #23

Below the belt and simplistic. Such rebuttals tend to arise... YvonneCa Sep 2013 #35

Intelligent people make specific distinctions. Broad justifications for rushing to war, still bad. Tigress DEM Sep 2013 #13

thanks for that kpete Sep 2013 #18

The likely outcome is that people will wind up fearing being slaughtered by their neighbors MNBrewer Sep 2013 #25

To strike because the US will be able to control the reaction? Jefferson23 Sep 2013 #19

i agree: kpete Sep 2013 #33

That's a long wait kpete, I hope we all get to that plateau soon. Jefferson23 Sep 2013 #37

The comparison to Hitler is hyperbolic, and to Saddam Hussein, unfortunate. MNBrewer Sep 2013 #24

"the case is building"? what happened to "we know" ?? KurtNYC Sep 2013 #26

John Kerry, Oct 2002 Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #34

"I see a pattern I think, of building credibility in certain political figures ..." Absolutely. AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #102

I just saw him on TV. He seems to have gotten a new attitude to go along with his new look. Autumn Sep 2013 #27

New look? - He looks just as he has for a decade with a bit of aging karynnj Sep 2013 #31

What can I say. IMO he looks younger. Autumn Sep 2013 #70

His face has filled out karynnj Sep 2013 #71

Botox?...everyone uses it. Have you seen reporter Margaret Carlson lately? KoKo Sep 2013 #89

His stance on this issue sure isn't the Candidate I voted for in 2004. Autumn Sep 2013 #90

New look? You're kidding... YvonneCa Sep 2013 #40

People change. mzteris Sep 2013 #28

Intervened in WW2? You do understand that Germany declared war on us, and we did not enter the war Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #39

My guess is that they don't know those facts MNBrewer Sep 2013 #43

Some actually think we went to war because of the death camps when in fact even after we were in the Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #46

sad but true MNBrewer Sep 2013 #49

you'd be guessing wrong, then. mzteris Sep 2013 #57

Of course it had something to do with slavery MNBrewer Sep 2013 #60

noooooooo mzteris Sep 2013 #91

The north never "intervened". It responded to the secession. MNBrewer Sep 2013 #92

oh good lord mzteris Sep 2013 #94

The Amercian Civil War was ALL about slavery. The Midway Rebel Sep 2013 #96

We machinated that "declaration" - mzteris Sep 2013 #54

Japan and Germany were allies... MNBrewer Sep 2013 #61

what history do you not know? mzteris Sep 2013 #93

You're really confused MNBrewer Sep 2013 #99

How do we effectively prevent the normalization of poison gas as a weapon of war? aquart Sep 2013 #36

For one thing, make it a capital offense to sell component chemicals to nations who are using such Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #41

I think that your approach is something worth considering. But while I am no totodeinhere Sep 2013 #47

We forbid sales that constitute technology transfer to certain nations MNBrewer Sep 2013 #50

Yeah, Psuedofed is useful as a cold medicine but the sale is controlled becaue of one potential Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #63

"And as president, I will bring back this nation's time-honored tradition: - lynne Sep 2013 #38

EXACTLY why the debate in Congress is so important. To define when... YvonneCa Sep 2013 #42

Ugh. Yes, Kerry is a real disappointment. David__77 Sep 2013 #51

Oh, how the mighty have fallent. I share your dismay and disappointment - nt HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #52

What turned him? liberal N proud Sep 2013 #58

He left out that the USofA used chemical weapons in Vietnam and helped Hussein use them rhett o rick Sep 2013 #68

Indeed he did and that was the most disappointing in his rant about KoKo Sep 2013 #95

Actually, I think he was defining how this situation differs from Iraq in... YvonneCa Sep 2013 #104

+1. USA also gave smallpox roody Sep 2013 #100

At no time did the USA give infected blankets. If you want to blame Lord Amherst, he was British, AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #103

I stand corrected. roody Sep 2013 #110

Reminds me of Colin Powell. delrem Sep 2013 #69

Kerry has consistently favored endless wars in the Middle-East since 12/14/2001 AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #101