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LearningCurve

(488 posts)
Tue Sep 3, 2013, 10:40 PM Sep 2013

A 3rd Party may tip the election in 2016 [View all]

For those around in 2000, 2016 has the potential to give some a feeling of deja vu. For those not around, Gore lost the electoral college by a small margin. One of the reasons, many claim, is that the Green Party siphoned enough votes that otherwise would have gone for Gore. Had the Green Party and Ralph Nader not been on the ballot, the argument goes, Gore would have gotten enough votes to win at least one more state, if not several.

The position of those who supported Nader and the Greens in 2000, is that on issues that they cared about, Democrats were just as beholden to the corporatocracy as Republicans. Those who voted Green were chastised by those on the left, for effectively allowing Bush to become president. Mostly cowed, those who supported Nader in 2000 did not do so in nearly the numbers in 2004. The Greens effectively disappeared as an option for the left.

End of generalized and truncated history lesson.

Approaching 2016, we have the exact same sentiment among a certain section of the populace that led to a 3rd party getting enough of a vote to tip the scales. Only this time, it won't be the Greens. It will probably be the Libertarians. Now thought doubtlessly has some Democrats not only not bothered by the possibility, but excited about it.

The reasoning here is, that this time, it will be the Republicans who lose votes to the 3rd party, thereby ensuring a Democrat wins the presidency. The theory here is, most of the people who are likely to vote Libertarian are those in the Libertarian wing of the Republican Party. Sure, a few Dems who really want pot legalized might vote that direction, but the net gain will be for the Democratic nominee.

I suspect this line of reasoning, only holds true for the moment. This theory is based on seeing someone perceived as a libertarian-leaning Republican at the top of the ticket. If that indeed holds up, say a Rand Paul defected (and I don't for a moment believe he would) from the GOP, Democrats would have good reason to think the election was in the bag.

There is another possibility however. What if, the Libertarian candidate is someone like Penn Gillette? At that point, I think it becomes unclear who the most votes get siphoned from. It could be a wash. Or, it might actually pull more votes from the Democrats. At which point, Democrats would then blame those who voted for a 3rd party for losing the election, rather than blame the policies that caused progressives to look for alternatives on issues that were paramount to them.

The important lesson of 2000 and the Greens is not the outcome, but the conditions that allowed for that outcome. Both parties are ignoring a passionate part of the electorate right now at their potential peril.

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Doesn't just about everyone think Penn Gillette is an asshole? Robb Sep 2013 #1
Didn't hurt Donald Trump LearningCurve Sep 2013 #2
Did Trump win something and I missed it? Robb Sep 2013 #14
I was referring to his high poll numbers in 2012 LearningCurve Sep 2013 #24
Almost all of them had high poll numbers at one time or another JHB Sep 2013 #41
If the Democratic party becomes a carbon copy of Penn Gillette then it won't be worth voting for dsc Sep 2013 #3
sigh....must we again point out why this Libertarian shit is just that....shit? VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #4
My point isn't that the Democrats should become Penn Gillette LearningCurve Sep 2013 #8
I am in several of those categories and I could never vote for a libertarian. longship Sep 2013 #11
Most people would not LearningCurve Sep 2013 #18
Understood. Thanks for your clarification. longship Sep 2013 #33
Let's keep our eyes on 2014, shall we? randome Sep 2013 #5
2016 means nothing if we don't gain ground in 2014... TreasonousBastard Sep 2013 #7
Is your Congressman worth working for... polichick Sep 2013 #13
He'll add to a Democratic majority, won't he? Plenty of time to hammer him on issues every day... Hekate Sep 2013 #32
No need to hammer him-- he's one of the good guys... TreasonousBastard Sep 2013 #35
Glad to hear that -- so's mine, a quiet hardworking Dem woman through and through Hekate Sep 2013 #36
Tim Bishop, NY 1... TreasonousBastard Sep 2013 #34
Gore did not lose because of Nader. MannyGoldstein Sep 2013 #6
that is utter tommy rot dsc Sep 2013 #9
Thanks for your post LearningCurve Sep 2013 #12
see post 20 I will try to post exit polls tomorrow afternoon dsc Sep 2013 #21
Appreciated LearningCurve Sep 2013 #42
Every analysis that I've seen indicates that Gore would have done no better MannyGoldstein Sep 2013 #15
From your very own link dsc Sep 2013 #20
That's a good point, but MannyGoldstein Sep 2013 #23
There were many reasons for outcome of 2000 LearningCurve Sep 2013 #10
"There were many reasons for outcome of 2000" Politicalboi Sep 2013 #16
Psst... Gore got more vote than bush in Florida even with Nader on the ballot. last1standing Sep 2013 #28
Libertarian candidate? Penn Gillette? R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2013 #17
Finally someone is talking sense! LearningCurve Sep 2013 #19
If neither party serves the people, a third party will have to arise. polichick Sep 2013 #22
the tea party? madrchsod Sep 2013 #25
It could happen especially if disaffected Ds and Is weren't happy with either party's candidate davidpdx Sep 2013 #26
The RNC and DNC changed all the rules after Perot scared them to death, woo me with science Sep 2013 #31
Thanks for your post LearningCurve Sep 2013 #39
Penn Jillette as president? Excuse my editorial laugh. Ha ha ha ha... Initech Sep 2013 #27
three years is forever in us politics struggle4progress Sep 2013 #29
Don't see it... brooklynite Sep 2013 #30
With this: Le Taz Hot Sep 2013 #37
My post was not meant to be a comprehensive analysis of every factor that led to the 2000 outcome LearningCurve Sep 2013 #38
People want someone or something to vote FOR... Demo_Chris Sep 2013 #40
Without A Third Party Dominated House And/Or Senate... KharmaTrain Sep 2013 #43
This may be true LearningCurve Sep 2013 #44
Of Course Not... KharmaTrain Sep 2013 #45
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