General Discussion

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)

157. I understand the political sausage-making process.

Wed Sep 4, 2013, 03:15 PM

Sep 2013

That is not the issue for me.

My problem is that Obama did these things on his own:

* Authorized "signature strikes" targeting weddings and funerals
* Authorized "double-taps" targeting first responders
* Changed the rules of engagement to designate all military-aged males in a strike zone as "militants" to manipulate collateral damage numbers in his favor.
* Declared the power to execute U.S. citizens far from any battlefield,k without due process, without oversight and without accountability.
* Bombed Libya in direct defiance of a Congressional vote.
* Pressured the Yemeni government not to release a journalist held as a political prisoner.
* Criminalized adversarial journalism.
* Preemptively immunized the Bush Administration from prosecution for war crimes.

None of these things were necessary, all of them degrade our democracy and they are all things completely under Obama's control. I can live with a crummy health insurance law, but this Imperial Presidency bullshit he's perpetuating? No.

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I've figured out the hostility to the President, and its not "Obama Derangement Syndrome"... [View all] brooklynite Sep 2013 OP

Yep.....they are one step away....they are disgusting . Nt pkdu Sep 2013 #1

It has nothing to do with Bush, it's because he is black. CK_John Sep 2013 #2

I'm talking about the people HERE... brooklynite Sep 2013 #6

I think you're right, transferrence. NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #3

Six months??? It was before he was even inaugurated in 2008. Yavin4 Sep 2013 #137

You are a war apologist. Old Union Guy Sep 2013 #4

"He is selling war, and you just bought it." SammyWinstonJack Sep 2013 #12

Damn straight. NuclearDem Sep 2013 #14

One other possibility is that people may have problems with certain issues, regardless of the "D." LearningCurve Sep 2013 #5

Ding Ding Ding Ding! AgingAmerican Sep 2013 #97

I said as much in a conversation about my ODS diagnosis the other day Dragonfli Sep 2013 #100

You said it very very well! nt delrem Sep 2013 #197

NOH WAI! Scootaloo Sep 2013 #102

Orrrrr, just maybe, they are more similar then people like to admit. Arctic Dave Sep 2013 #7

Your premise is both implausible and absurd 99th_Monkey Sep 2013 #8

x2 AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #16

The OP has not figured it out, he neglected to mention the most important reason why sabrina 1 Sep 2013 #22

+Infinity. If Obama manages to cram this shitpile down the throats of an unwilling HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #29

When Pelosi said ".. we don't have control of the government" 99th_Monkey Sep 2013 #35

k&r avaistheone1 Sep 2013 #42

I do know who Tice is and I think he may be right because nothing else makes any sense. sabrina 1 Sep 2013 #47

"...which we would have expected had a Republican won.." Volaris Sep 2013 #80

Thank you. Perhaps this wounded electorate is just what corporate 'handlers' have wanted ancianita Sep 2013 #118

Or maybe it's time for a new political party, which hasn't been corrupted yet. delrem Sep 2013 #200

Yes //\\ G_j Sep 2013 #166

You nailed it, Sabrina 1: "We have been fooled for over a decade." Raksha Sep 2013 #180

Thank you. nt woo me with science Sep 2013 #26

And lets just pretend that all the accomplishments Pres. Obama has had are non-existant because you VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #32

They pale next to exonerating war criminals.[n/t] Maedhros Sep 2013 #79

to YOU maybe...but not to ME! VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #83

That says more about you than me. Maedhros Sep 2013 #88

+1,000 Scuba Sep 2013 #112

YOU on the other hand think things change overnight... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #150

As a matter of fact... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #152

A million vietnamese killed doesn't say much about US concept of "human rights". delrem Sep 2013 #202

Yes I am sure when women got the right to vote... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #207

Women getting the right has no bearing on the 1,000,000+ killed by US bombs. Warmonger. delrem Sep 2013 #215

to the point I was making.. VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #218

I understand the political sausage-making process. Maedhros Sep 2013 #157

so what? He did plenty as I pointed out previously on his own as well... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #159

When it involves killing people and assaulting the Constitution, it does [n/t] Maedhros Sep 2013 #160

When he ALSO gave women the right to sue for unequal pay... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #161

Kindly take your ODS and place it somewhere appropriate. Maedhros Sep 2013 #163

if the ODS shoe fits...wear it! VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #164

And now add... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #165

I agree: those things you are pointing out are GOOD THINGS. Maedhros Sep 2013 #168

Then it is unfair to bash the guy like he is unworthy of our support.. VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #172

I'm not bashing "the guy." Maedhros Sep 2013 #176

this is a thread about ODS VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #184

ODS is as stupid a concept as BDS. [n/t] Maedhros Sep 2013 #190

Not when you cannot help but notice the evidence of and epidemic all over the forums... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #205

I think you're projecting your own expectations onto people. Maedhros Sep 2013 #234

So you are drawing a red line.... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #235

That's the thing: you're assuming that by launching a strike on Syria Maedhros Sep 2013 #237

Very well said! Raksha Sep 2013 #187

Your "so what" says it all. You have no moral grounding. delrem Sep 2013 #203

what did I say "so what to? VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #208

the list in Maedhros' post. delrem Sep 2013 #214

It was the point I was saying "so what" to... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #216

"bleeding heart, pacifist, ivory-tower living, tree hugging, fancy-pants wearing, hippy haven" delrem Sep 2013 #201

that was snark...in case you are snark challenged. VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #209

No it wasn't. It was entirely consistent with your messages to DU. delrem Sep 2013 #213

Yes it is consistent... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #219

I have a problem with your warmongering. And your lying propaganda. delrem Sep 2013 #220

and I have a problem with Anarchists attempting to take over Democratic Underground... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #221

You have no idea what an 'anarchist' is. In spite of some *very good* educational material. delrem Sep 2013 #222

Actually YES I do... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #223

I suggest you read some of the source material that was suggested to you. delrem Sep 2013 #226

I suggest YOU read the actual Dictionary Definition of Anarchy! VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #228

30 words in webster! Now that's DEEP! About as deep as a warmonger need go. delrem Sep 2013 #229

Well it would be acceptable as a source for educational purposes wouldnt it? VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #230

"education"? Why don't you quit the warmongering for a bit, and educate yourself. delrem Sep 2013 #231

Got anything to add besides calling me a warmonger? VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #224

No, that about covers your contribution. delrem Sep 2013 #227

So long as War Criminals are free to continue to influence the Foreign policies of this country, sabrina 1 Sep 2013 #123

not entirely though hfojvt Sep 2013 #51

Funny, we act like an imperialist... awoke_in_2003 Sep 2013 #94

Being nominally "better" than the USSR <--(which doesn't exist) is hardly reaching for the stars 99th_Monkey Sep 2013 #95

no, I am old hfojvt Sep 2013 #130

A lame duck who can't wait to get us into another war. cui bono Sep 2013 #141

Obama doesn't need to sell himself, because he did that running for office 99th_Monkey Sep 2013 #155

I think it matters a great deal whether we talk about 10% or .01% hfojvt Sep 2013 #158

I think those 11,000,000 households are mostly our new "Mercenary Class" 99th_Monkey Sep 2013 #162

I understood it fine hfojvt Sep 2013 #170

OK, I'm down with going after the Fab 400.. Let's do this! nt 99th_Monkey Sep 2013 #175

that part was sarcasm hfojvt Sep 2013 #178

The 400 Richest Americans Are Now Richer Than the Bottom 50 Percent Combined 99th_Monkey Sep 2013 #182

This cherokeeprogressive Sep 2013 #122

You just ended the thread LittleBlue Sep 2013 #131

DU-REC. n/t L0oniX Sep 2013 #135

Exactly. Nothing to add. nt Demo_Chris Sep 2013 #153

+1000 Raksha Sep 2013 #185

I think it's even more basic then that. Puglover Sep 2013 #206

There are politicians who do tell the truth, and those who don't 99th_Monkey Sep 2013 #211

How you gleaned Puglover Sep 2013 #212

So we agree some politicians tell the truth 99th_Monkey Sep 2013 #225

We agree. Puglover Sep 2013 #239

though critical of the Obama Administration - I am not "disappointed" in the sense Douglas Carpenter Sep 2013 #9

^^^ THAT! VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #43

Where is my Jamastiene Sep 2013 #98

Although I wasn't one of them deutsey Sep 2013 #119

Exactly...the moment I heard he was pulling Summers and Geithner into his inner circle deutsey Sep 2013 #117

Has it ever occured to you that Empire and continuity of policy nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #10

Let me see....Lily Ledbetter Act...check....Obamacares the biggest change in healthcare in this VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #52

Gandhis vs Oppression. Freedom Fighters vs Evil Empire. These fantasies about the US uhnope Sep 2013 #145

Really...a good reading of history nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #148

Does seem to be that way, doesn't it? truedelphi Sep 2013 #193

Empires have their logic nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #196

At least Bush had Colin Powell state their case at the UN... reformist2 Sep 2013 #11

Yes, it comes down to a very simple equation according to them davidpdx Sep 2013 #13

Personality cultists see everything through the lense of personalities, I've noticed. Marr Sep 2013 #15

You probably won't believe that he's not my "hero"... brooklynite Sep 2013 #19

I believe he's thoughtful and intelligent as well. That doesn't mean he's on my side. Marr Sep 2013 #37

+1 deutsey Sep 2013 #120

Their could be another reason........ wandy Sep 2013 #17

I'm open to a rational debate on the issue... brooklynite Sep 2013 #24

I do not use those terms. I point out that we have other problems.......... wandy Sep 2013 #58

This is not addressed to you... brooklynite Sep 2013 #64

Understood. I think by now you know I'm against this Syria thing..... wandy Sep 2013 #84

Kick, you are a reality based apologist. Nt Sand Wind Sep 2013 #18

Congratulations on another stupid post. last1standing Sep 2013 #20

You've aligned your interests with those of (among others) Karl Rove, Eliott Abrams, HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #21

John Kerry, Nancy Pelosi, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren... brooklynite Sep 2013 #25

How's it feel being in bed with the likes of Norm Coleman? You and people like you make HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #33

How's it feel being in bed with the likes of Rand Paul? (edited to add Ted Cruz...) brooklynite Sep 2013 #49

is the FREE REPUBLIC really an anti war web site?..nt Jesus Malverde Sep 2013 #89

No. They're anti-Obama-no-matter-what, just like Neo-DU. tridim Sep 2013 #154

+1 JustAnotherGen Sep 2013 #128

have Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren committed themselves to authorizing force in Syria? Douglas Carpenter Sep 2013 #34

Both have acknowledged that Assad used chemical weapons... brooklynite Sep 2013 #38

Post removed Post removed Sep 2013 #46

Provide the quote where I said they "support military intervention" brooklynite Sep 2013 #54

logic fail. uhnope Sep 2013 #146

Gee thanks HangOnKids Sep 2013 #177

another logic fail. and a smilie fail. uhnope Sep 2013 #179

Keep going you are a hoot HangOnKids Sep 2013 #181

smilie fail. uhnope Sep 2013 #183

Keep going you are a hoot HangOnKids Sep 2013 #186

And you have aligned your interests with teabaggers snooper2 Sep 2013 #156

exactly right uhnope Sep 2013 #188

bullshit. people who're promised change and don't get it, are right to describe the continuation delrem Sep 2013 #23

But I suspect that many of those who are loyalists truedelphi Sep 2013 #195

DU rec... SidDithers Sep 2013 #27

as I posted in a previous thread, the ugliest crap comes from the least well informed. KittyWampus Sep 2013 #28

case in point RetroLounge Sep 2013 #44

Love you! HangOnKids Sep 2013 #105

Yes, yes it does. nt Mojorabbit Sep 2013 #45

How's the cartography coming? DisgustipatedinCA Sep 2013 #62

... leftstreet Sep 2013 #65

More MAP! HangOnKids Sep 2013 #104

I quite agree. Union Scribe Sep 2013 #114

horrible generalization. I've noticed little hostility or transference. NRaleighLiberal Sep 2013 #30

Confusion? How about outright ignorance. And bias. I've spent the better part of 2 weeks reading KittyWampus Sep 2013 #36

Sorry - I don't see it that way. I trust NO politician or news source right now - and that defines NRaleighLiberal Sep 2013 #40

This message was self-deleted by its author HangOnKids Sep 2013 #106

"Little" hostility? CakeGrrl Sep 2013 #78

Both bush's war and a Syrian strike are illegal under international law. morningfog Sep 2013 #31

Why would a former Harvard Law professor care about something so quaint and HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #39

O was NEVER a Harvard professor, nor a constitutional law scholar. Divernan Sep 2013 #96

Careful, sounds like you are comparing Bush to Obama. avaistheone1 Sep 2013 #56

YOU CAN"T HAVE A WAR WITHOUT BOOTS!!!!!!111! BOOOOOOOOTS!!1!!! morningfog Sep 2013 #57

Are you doing a John Stewart? avaistheone1 Sep 2013 #63

It's a ridiculous comparison. raouldukelives Sep 2013 #77

.... avaistheone1 Sep 2013 #82

ouch! grasswire Sep 2013 #132

Embarrassing. Starry Messenger Sep 2013 #41

No, this goes beyond embarassing to despicable and McCarthy-esque. - nt HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #50

McCarthy was less patronizing. Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #136

Wow, that's some kind of stupid post right there. RetroLounge Sep 2013 #48

Keep telling yourself that LibAsHell Sep 2013 #53

Futher to your point, no one here is saying or even hinting that Obama should be impeached over HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #55

i guess we`ll have to wait and see if he will be impeached madrchsod Sep 2013 #59

And do you think it would be for a valid reason? CakeGrrl Sep 2013 #69

nope .... madrchsod Sep 2013 #86

i think it's just alienation from politicians in general Enrique Sep 2013 #60

i`d say you are correct..... madrchsod Sep 2013 #61

The case for impeachment aka "throw the bum out" has already been made. CakeGrrl Sep 2013 #66

You say projecting, I say observing. n/t lumberjack_jeff Sep 2013 #67

Maybe people just think that in regards to Syria, he's wrong to want to bomb them. Triana Sep 2013 #68

In this thread, I've learned that if I have problems with the President, I'm either a rube DisgustipatedinCA Sep 2013 #70

...and called deranged either way. n/t Jamastiene Sep 2013 #110

"My only question is: will they decide that Bush should have impeached, so....." R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2013 #71

It's all about being mean to Obama!!!!!111! woo me with science Sep 2013 #72

Yes ! here is a read of US Syrian Obama meanies at protest lunasun Sep 2013 #107

alas and alack, Obama's being called a warmonger not because Bush was one MisterP Sep 2013 #73

"War of Aggression" brooklynite Sep 2013 #74

When you're shooting missiles and dropping bombs on a country LibAsHell Sep 2013 #76

MORE BULLSHIT. n/t DeSwiss Sep 2013 #75

Say please. cthulu2016 Sep 2013 #103

Our wars are good, their wars are bad!!!! ForgoTheConsequence Sep 2013 #81

What a steaming pile of bullshit leftstreet Sep 2013 #85

If you're a Dem, and you SUPPORT bombing Syria, you're on the RIGHT SIDE because PO wants it. cherokeeprogressive Sep 2013 #87

good point upi402 Sep 2013 #90

The major significant difference between Bush and Obama eridani Sep 2013 #91

Obama orders drones to kill Americans without trial🌝 grahamhgreen Sep 2013 #92

that makes it a strain of ODS, doesn't it? projecting Bush's real crimes onto Obama. uhnope Sep 2013 #93

Obama loves drone warfare and that what he has in mind. They don't care The_Casual_Observer Sep 2013 #99

Errrrrr....... no. sibelian Sep 2013 #101

They are so much in love with Assad, they love it when he gassed the "terrorist". Nt Sand Wind Sep 2013 #108

Amazing! Jamastiene Sep 2013 #109

You haven't figured out shit whatchamacallit Sep 2013 #111

One hand washes the other... Earth_First Sep 2013 #113

Except that they didn't... brooklynite Sep 2013 #127

Bush is a war criminal ... GeorgeGist Sep 2013 #115

This is why you should check your math... JHB Sep 2013 #116

that's simplistic nonsense bigtree Sep 2013 #121

or maybe it's the transference of the policies and even many of the appointees yurbud Sep 2013 #124

That makes too much sense Harmony Blue Sep 2013 #125

Upton Sinclair: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something... yurbud Sep 2013 #129

+1 JVS Sep 2013 #149

Would there have been the hostility to Bush if he had been a more moderate, do nothing Republican? yurbud Sep 2013 #126

Honestly, I come across more hostile on here than I am Bradical79 Sep 2013 #133

Bullshit! Epic frame fail! L0oniX Sep 2013 #134

Yeah, that's it. LOL polichick Sep 2013 #138

You are not very good at this. Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #139

Ah... I just love OPs that promote harmony and togetherness. cui bono Sep 2013 #140

Crap like this makes me yearn for the days of the unrec option! nt joeybee12 Sep 2013 #142

Embarrassing post. myrna minx Sep 2013 #143

You're a hoot! City Lights Sep 2013 #144

Yeah, it has nothing to do with actually evaluating his policies and actions LondonReign2 Sep 2013 #147

This thread is awesome... SidDithers Sep 2013 #151

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha MFrohike Sep 2013 #167

You don't think Bush was a warmonger? Octafish Sep 2013 #169

Golly - I never thought this thread would run for 24 hours...did I hit a nerve? brooklynite Sep 2013 #171

That's some hypocritical bullshit there. You post what you posted then claim others are Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #210

i think this is true but liberals typically oppose war. so the fact that we dont want to go into war La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #173

Voters and Far-Left DUers are unfair for thinking we cannot afford a 3rd war. Dr Fate Sep 2013 #174

Or... Downtown Hound Sep 2013 #189

Juvenile and offensive. nt woo me with science Sep 2013 #191

When he follows the same policies, it is entirely justified alarimer Sep 2013 #192

That is it in a nutshell. n/t truedelphi Sep 2013 #194

It's mainly utopians tabasco Sep 2013 #198

I am sorry, but as someone who hated Richard Nixon, and who truedelphi Sep 2013 #204

plus.. sendero Sep 2013 #217

Maybe one explanation: truedelphi Sep 2013 #232

I think that is part of the problem. sendero Sep 2013 #238

Maybe those people are still opposed to the same policies and actions QC Sep 2013 #199

that's a good way to put it. yurbud Sep 2013 #233

Becasue opposition to Obama = psychiatric issues? Skip Intro Sep 2013 #236