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A Little Weird

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74. There was a UN resolution and broad international support

Thu Sep 5, 2013, 10:26 PM

Sep 2013

There was a UN resolution and broad international support for the Libya action. Even then, there were criticisms that the US went too far (acting beyond the scope of the resolution) and essentially became the rebels' air force.

The Syria talk is reminiscent of Iraq because we don't seem to give a damn what the UN thinks and are willing to go forward regardless.

Ultimately, each situation is different and has different possible pitfalls. Iraq was obviously a calamity. Libya was much more successful - in my opinion, one reason was because the Libyan resistance was less influenced by extremists than the Syrian resistance.

Regarding Syria, the president has not gained broad consensus from the international community on what must be done. He has failed to lay out what the goals of the action would be ("to send a message" is really too vague). I just don't think he has made a case for military action.

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I like Kerry. I like Obama. I don't think they are lying to us about why we are about to bomb Syria [View all] La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 OP

Watch Kerry on Chris Hayes, and tell me he isn't lying. The Link Sep 2013 #1

what exactly do you think he is lying about? La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #4

Air strikes will hurt the "extremists rebels" and help the moderates. The Link Sep 2013 #6

depending on how the air strikes went, this might not be a lie La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #9

The funny thing about extremists.... obxhead Sep 2013 #40

thats like saying osama looks like other afghanis. if you know where particular militant groups La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #53

How many civilian deaths will you accept? nt HooptieWagon Sep 2013 #56

do you not see in the OP where i said i was against this war??? La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #57

I was responding to your post... HooptieWagon Sep 2013 #62

again, i am against this war as i am about other wars La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #63

I believe Assad should be stopped from attacking his own people. Some how some way. lumpy Sep 2013 #73

I'm against the strike too creeksneakers2 Sep 2013 #65

I hope that is the plan, for limited strategic targeted strikes if it is to happen. lumpy Sep 2013 #77

The "bad rebels" (sheeeee...) control all rebel held (jihadi) territory. delrem Sep 2013 #104

How likely is that? quakerboy Sep 2013 #81

Special X-TREME bombs. They only hurt the X-TREME. /nt Marr Sep 2013 #14

I don't know how you get "lie" out of that. Skidmore Sep 2013 #17

He just said he and Hagel both opposed Iraq but they both actually voted for it and both Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #13

People, even politicians, are presumed to intend the natural consequenses of their voluntary actions AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #90

Many people here claim the adminnistration is lying, I haven't had a truthful answer, yet. lumpy Sep 2013 #67

They Have Offered No Proof That Assad Used Chemical Weapons. Justina For Justice Sep 2013 #87

How do you know? Inuca Sep 2013 #114

i agree with the way you see it. yup. nt seabeyond Sep 2013 #2

Kerry definitely lied about AQ not being in Syria. bunnies Sep 2013 #3

He did not say the group wasn't in Syria. Here is what he said: ProSense Sep 2013 #8

Thats not the exchange I was referring to. bunnies Sep 2013 #21

You have to read all the statements in these articles, doncha' know. lumpy Sep 2013 #68

You are taking Putin's comment of what he said as fact karynnj Sep 2013 #108

He didn't say that. He said there are more moderate forces blm Sep 2013 #12

IIRC, it was a yes or no question that Im referring to. bunnies Sep 2013 #25

You said Kerry definately lied. You should be able to back up your claim. Period. lumpy Sep 2013 #69

Ive been searching since I posted this. bunnies Sep 2013 #71

WW2 saying, " loose lips sink ships." lumpy Sep 2013 #75

Sanity Rec. NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #5

+1 Hekate Sep 2013 #103

I like them too - but I trust absolutely no politician. None. NRaleighLiberal Sep 2013 #7

i dont have to trust them to know they are right. i hear news from non-american sources La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #10

they may well be right - but I still do not implicitly trust any politician. NRaleighLiberal Sep 2013 #11

That's because you have sense Aerows Sep 2013 #30

I guess I am also a natural cynic/skeptic - my parents told me to never trust authority! NRaleighLiberal Sep 2013 #33

Survive? Aerows Sep 2013 #35

That is entirely your problem. Sad lumpy Sep 2013 #76

Why is it a problem? And it's funny...I don't feel like it - or I - am particularly sad. NRaleighLiberal Sep 2013 #78

I do have concern for you feelings about having feelings for other people. lumpy Sep 2013 #84

Wow. you don't know me. I have great capacity for love - NRaleighLiberal Sep 2013 #89

Dropping bombs on a war torn nation will not bring peace. Cleita Sep 2013 #22

i just said that it wouldn't work as a strategy although IMO had we intervened at the start of this La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #29

Since when did that figure into foreign policy decisions? Marr Sep 2013 #24

i never said that it should. what i said is that assad tortures his people, and that is not a lie. n La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #31

Is that really up for debate? If Bush tortured people, why would anyone dispute whether Assad did? AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #93

Small historical note pursuant to your OP: While Britaiin does bear a huge amount HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #15

i intended to say britain and france. They along with belgians and Dutch also caused irreparable La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #16

About the only positives to come out of 4 centures of European imperialism are HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #23

bahn-mi & the indian railroad are to me the only 2 highlights La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #27

Yeah, I was being somewhat facetious, although I do have a soft spot for HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #36

i do too athough the indian parliament is a joke. La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #38

Agreed...as I can tell, the plan suffers from a lack of legitimacy and uncertain effectiveness alcibiades_mystery Sep 2013 #18

If you see a plan here you're doing a lot better than I am. All I see is.... wandy Sep 2013 #64

K&R. Well said. n/t FSogol Sep 2013 #19

Why is his so-called "proof" classified? Why is the operation classified? delrem Sep 2013 #20

Check my logic here - does "If It weren't a lie it wouldn't be classified" make sense? el_bryanto Sep 2013 #49

Not your fucking "proof" for committing a war crime, el_bryanto delrem Sep 2013 #52

Thank you. woo me with science Sep 2013 #61

yes - we're living in Orwellian newspeak, and it's a fuckin' awesome experience. delrem Sep 2013 #102

Ah a war crime - like the one Assad commited? nt el_bryanto Sep 2013 #100

Not the crime that Pres. Obama supposedly has "secret classified proof" of. delrem Sep 2013 #101

Well - they did go to the UN - but Russia has made it clear they will block any vote el_bryanto Sep 2013 #112

I see. The US only pisses all over the UN when the UN doesn't acquiesce to US demands for war. nt delrem Sep 2013 #116

I think this is a measured and reasoned argument. I'll take it a step further....I don't think the msanthrope Sep 2013 #26

to be fair i think we escalate the likelihood that he will hit israel La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #28

I think eliminating his ability to do so might have come to the forefront. msanthrope Sep 2013 #34

It's a case you can only make in the hypothetical and that's the problem. ProSense Sep 2013 #44

Anyone who studied Assad's command of the occupation of Lebanon knows that the msanthrope Sep 2013 #48

Syria and Israel been peaceful since 1973. HooptieWagon Sep 2013 #58

Kick and Rec! LostOne4Ever Sep 2013 #32

I don't think they're lying. I just disagree with their way of handling this. Triana Sep 2013 #37

oh i completely agree. La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #39

Why are you comparing it to Bush's Iraq war instead of Obama's Liyba intervention? Tx4obama Sep 2013 #43

There was a UN resolution and broad international support A Little Weird Sep 2013 #74

It is not a 'war' it is an intervention. Just like we did in Libya but w/o no-fly zone. Tx4obama Sep 2013 #41

Von Clauswitz: "War is thus an act of force to compel our enemy to do our will." grahamhgreen Sep 2013 #50

Airstrikes are not war? AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #94

They do seem to be avoiding something zipplewrath Sep 2013 #42

The chemicals used this time were stronger and killed more people - and this time... Tx4obama Sep 2013 #45

Yes zipplewrath Sep 2013 #46

GWB was torturing people, why bomb Syria nd not arrest GWB??? grahamhgreen Sep 2013 #47

Agree! n/t RKP5637 Sep 2013 #51

They're being lied to. All presidents are. So is the SOS. Warpy Sep 2013 #54

Respectfully, no. Tet showed the American public that LBJ was lying once again. His reputation AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #97

That is my position also for almost the exact reasons, etc. nt stevenleser Sep 2013 #55

I bet Assad would take a deal so he doesn't wind up like Gaddafi. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2013 #59

Well I am with you on this.. I see no upside either.. Peacetrain Sep 2013 #60

I don't think they're lying... Jeff In Milwaukee Sep 2013 #66

If they are making plans to have boots on the ground, they are lying when they say that they AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #70

what makes you think they are putting boots on ground? they repeatedly said they are not La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #72

Kerry, in response to a question about boots on the ground A Little Weird Sep 2013 #79

Exactly. AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #85

What he was talking about is... Tx4obama Sep 2013 #91

I understand A Little Weird Sep 2013 #95

What makes you think that Congress should not hold hearings to determine the true intent? AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #86

Liking Kerry or Obama is totally irrelevant. This isn't Middle School. DeSwiss Sep 2013 #80

Thank you. Forwarding to 840high Sep 2013 #82

If you say so...... lumpy Sep 2013 #92

Rec AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #98

I think we should drop food/medicine to NK Marrah_G Sep 2013 #83

I like your idea..... DeSwiss Sep 2013 #96

If we really cared about Americans we would drop food/medication in Detroit not bombs in Syria. AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #88

true Marrah_G Sep 2013 #106

This message was self-deleted by its author AtomicKitten Sep 2013 #99

The lie is not what Assad has done. That is true. morningfog Sep 2013 #105

You have no fucking *proof* of that statement. It's *classified*. delrem Sep 2013 #107

The lies are obvious. Their positions internally inconsistent. morningfog Sep 2013 #109

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ THIS ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ bvar22 Sep 2013 #115

If we intervened when humanitarian needs went unmet here at home I might believe them. Scuba Sep 2013 #110

What about the claim that this could become a threat to the US? Doctor_J Sep 2013 #111

america has also been torturing its people for years noiretextatique Sep 2013 #113

agreed. nt La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2013 #117