General Discussion

enlightenment

(8,830 posts)

87. Of course it's a political football.

Sat Sep 7, 2013, 12:01 PM

Sep 2013

Not because it should be, but because that is what our system has made it.

A huge part of the problem, is word parsing (which is tossing a political football). You define "single-payer" in one way - when in truth it most certainly does include systems like the NHS. What is done with the funds after they are pooled is what separates most of the systems.

We don't have to have an NHS system full-stop, but we have got to move away from the idea of including for-profit health insurance corporations in the equation. The ACA encodes their participation in a way that ensures we will never locate that "back door" you keep talking about.

It's nice to believe that "other states" will follow Vermont's lead (which is a pooled insurance scheme) - but that is less than realistic and suggests that you really don't know as much as you think you do. If you're an expert, post your credentials - but please don't think that anyone should accept your pronouncements as deeply informed when they clearly are not.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

161 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

If he had fought this hard for Single-Payer... [View all] SHRED Sep 2013 OP

isnt congress about to vote NO? JoePhilly Sep 2013 #1

why let that get in the way of the phony outrage circle jerk JI7 Sep 2013 #2

They appear to be running out of speculative outrage strawmen. JoePhilly Sep 2013 #68

So it's decided then, & Obama is addressing the nation to waste time. grahamhgreen Sep 2013 #81

Lol! whatchamacallit Sep 2013 #132

The point is he is fighting for the right to srike Syria. He never fought for single payer. liberal_at_heart Sep 2013 #7

+1000 SHRED Sep 2013 #8

Good post. bigwillq Sep 2013 #9

+1 leftstreet Sep 2013 #13

Not by the time the GOP was done with the "socialized commie medicine" meme Hekate Sep 2013 #48

But maybe we would have ended up with the Public Option cui bono Sep 2013 #57

Bingo! Fantastic Anarchist Sep 2013 #79

Obama & The Party leadership abandoned the field to the Republicans during "TeaBagger Summer". bvar22 Sep 2013 #95

If I recall, that was the same summer that Remote Area Medical was hosting a free healthcare event CrispyQ Sep 2013 #103

+ infinity BrotherIvan Sep 2013 #112

You are wrong on 2 counts golfguru Sep 2013 #138

yup I agree gopiscrap Sep 2013 #28

Oh, I thought the point was, "things that can't pass Congress anyway". JoePhilly Sep 2013 #64

can you name one country where single payer was achieved Whisp Sep 2013 #67

Yes I can, the UK's National Health Service. Clement Attlee's government elected in 1945 Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #92

No, it didn't come all at once in a neat package. Whisp Sep 2013 #96

ACA is NOT a step toward Single Payer. bvar22 Sep 2013 #100

some states have the opportunity to go single payer Whisp Sep 2013 #101

Nobody has ever said that "some" people will not be helped by the ACA. bvar22 Sep 2013 #109

Many people will be helped. Whisp Sep 2013 #118

Yes it is a step toward single payer Progressive dog Sep 2013 #107

so he's avoided getting involved in Syria for two whole years Schema Thing Sep 2013 #71

+1001 Segami Sep 2013 #111

"Make me do it." blkmusclmachine Sep 2013 #114

Says who? treestar Sep 2013 #120

Everybody seems to forget all the $hit Obama had on his plate TheDebbieDee Sep 2013 #137

His signature piece of legislation... truebluegreen Sep 2013 #143

Exactly! Now you're getting it........ TheDebbieDee Sep 2013 #148

ROFL alcibiades_mystery Sep 2013 #10

Apparently, he should have fought harder for Single Payer so that JoePhilly Sep 2013 #66

but you're claiming nothing will happen with Syria!!! Skittles Sep 2013 #141

oh, NOW you're using that excuse? Skittles Sep 2013 #11

Isn't he working like hell to get to yes? Hasn't he reserved the right to stirke without them? morningfog Sep 2013 #17

They are reacting to their constituents. War isn't popular. But Single Payer sabrina 1 Sep 2013 #27

Wasn't going to pass Congress, just like this won't, apparently. JoePhilly Sep 2013 #70

Once they have single payer treestar Sep 2013 #121

I certainly hope so. LWolf Sep 2013 #72

Why are you asking? Are you making an insinuation or just asking the status? rhett o rick Sep 2013 #104

Why didn't Congress fight "this hard for Single-Payer..."? ProSense Sep 2013 #3

Because DLC-Dems Took Single Payer "Off the Table" just like the Bush Impeachement WE Voted For HumansAndResources Sep 2013 #19

Single payer was never "on the table" and neither was impeachment. PBass Sep 2013 #23

Oh no, no, no, no JayhawkSD Sep 2013 #33

Single Payer was never on "Obama's table" to begin with. PBass Sep 2013 #38

President Obama himself made a concerted effort to ensure that a single-payer health care system avaistheone1 Sep 2013 #45

Funny how Billy Tauzin (big pharma lobbyist) visited the WH... polichick Sep 2013 #52

Rec AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #53

You're supposed ctsnowman Sep 2013 #77

Many of us are cursed with a memory. bvar22 Sep 2013 #117

Thanks, those were the points I was remembering Melissa G Sep 2013 #145

That's true enough . . . BUT markpkessinger Sep 2013 #58

Except while on his first campaign ...but you know ...people will say anything to get votes. L0oniX Sep 2013 #75

Oh, Boo. A: He doesn't seem to be fighting so hard for this. B: He fought pretty hard for ACA. NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #4

We did skip. He worked to keep single payer completely off the table. n/t Egalitarian Thug Sep 2013 #60

Yeah, it's all mean ol Congress' fault. So much for 11-Dimensional rope-a-dope bipartisan chess. blkmusclmachine Sep 2013 #91

Dream about what? He's losing this battle so far. So why do you think pnwmom Sep 2013 #5

Massive Anti-War Feedback - That is Why Congress Is not On Board HumansAndResources Sep 2013 #20

Your thinking Mira Sep 2013 #6

Fights should be for what you believe in Melissa G Sep 2013 #12

Obama did NOT "jump ship" on Single Payer PBass Sep 2013 #18

Obama jumped ship on his health care comments. Melissa G Sep 2013 #24

Did you read your own link? He supported the idea of Single Payer as a State Senator in 2003, PBass Sep 2013 #26

You do have trouble with reading comprehension and putting words Melissa G Sep 2013 #31

A "half-flip" sounds like weasel words, and Politifact can take a flying leap. PBass Sep 2013 #40

Pulitizer Prize Winning PolitiFact can "take a flying leap"? bvar22 Sep 2013 #122

Maddow, Kos, and others have noted Politifact's lies about Obama ConservativeDemocrat Sep 2013 #144

Obama did campaign on single payer in his Senate campaign. avaistheone1 Sep 2013 #42

"Lo and behold Obama becomes president..." LOL PBass Sep 2013 #46

Tens of thousands of Americans most of them children will die each year because Obamacare avaistheone1 Sep 2013 #49

You have something to back up that statement? Hippo_Tron Sep 2013 #110

What a mass of steaming bull shit! L0oniX Sep 2013 #76

The ACA allows states to implement single-payer Schema Thing Sep 2013 #14

Sorry but ACA is nothing like single payer. Single payer means you pay a tax for your healthcare. liberal_at_heart Sep 2013 #16

actually that's not the definition of single payer - that's your wishlist Schema Thing Sep 2013 #30

I know people who live in the UK and Europe who do not pay copays or premiums. They pay a tax and liberal_at_heart Sep 2013 #51

The UK and Europe are not one thing. Schema Thing Sep 2013 #63

Actually, MANY enlightenment Sep 2013 #82

Hey, I'd love to have that. Schema Thing Sep 2013 #84

Of course it's a political football. enlightenment Sep 2013 #87

I'm not talking about Medicare for All. I'm talking about single payer where all you pay is a tax. I liberal_at_heart Sep 2013 #85

good luck with that. Schema Thing Sep 2013 #97

I will never stop working for true single payer and I am not alone. Medicare for All is better than liberal_at_heart Sep 2013 #99

I lived in the UK OwnedByCats Sep 2013 #134

agree with all of that, but it isn't going to happen unless something Schema Thing Sep 2013 #136

When I read posts like yours: chervilant Sep 2013 #61

you saw this ;) Schema Thing Sep 2013 #65

I get insulted on this website regularly because I have the audacity to criticize the president. liberal_at_heart Sep 2013 #86

Two things: chervilant Sep 2013 #113

yes I have noticed that. liberal_at_heart Sep 2013 #119

That's because their target audience isn't you. It's everyone else. ConservativeDemocrat Sep 2013 #147

Not criticizing politicians just because of the letter after their name OwnedByCats Sep 2013 #135

And again, it allows states to setup that system within the state. phleshdef Sep 2013 #39

Like California Iliyah Sep 2013 #35

You're comparing apples and oranges here. Also, strawman argument... PBass Sep 2013 #15

Ahhh, He Backed the Insurance Cartels to "Protect Jobs" HumansAndResources Sep 2013 #32

More apples and oranges here... PBass Sep 2013 #41

He campaigned on a public option 'any bill I sign must contain a strong public option'. Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #93

Oh Please stop it Iliyah Sep 2013 #36

Obama did campaign on the Single Payer issue. See post #42 and listen to his own words. AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #54

So maybe the OP should say, "I wish Pres Obama wanted single payer health insurance rhett o rick Sep 2013 #106

He fought harder than this for the ACA bhikkhu Sep 2013 #21

OMG Iliyah Sep 2013 #22

He would have been a lame duck 1 year into his presidency Pretzel_Warrior Sep 2013 #25

So the Story Goes ... if Thelma And Louise would have worked a 2nd time. HumansAndResources Sep 2013 #37

No kidding gopiscrap Sep 2013 #29

Yes. Single-payer was discounted from the beginning n/t me b zola Sep 2013 #34

He cancelled his keynote speech for the AFL-CIO Natl. conv this week for Syria. Starry Messenger Sep 2013 #43

I misread the post. Thought you said "if WE had fought this hard..." joshcryer Sep 2013 #44

He didn't campaign for president on single-payer, did he? Hekate Sep 2013 #47

He did. See post #42 above and listen to his own words. AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #56

He never supported single payer...I knew that about him before he was even the Candidate... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #50

That is NOT true. bvar22 Sep 2013 #124

Okay I take that back...he was a propronent of it... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #128

seems he can't sell war to republicans. that's pretty sad. KG Sep 2013 #55

I shared your post with a friend of mine . . . markpkessinger Sep 2013 #59

Yeah, a pretty good indication of his ideology Doctor_J Sep 2013 #62

He gave a few hints, speaking admiringly of Reagan's governance as being "transformative." chimpymustgo Sep 2013 #73

That's Reagan who looked the other way at Saddam's gassing of Kurds and Iraqis Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #94

I see his true colors... 99Forever Sep 2013 #69

Yep, that should tell you something. nt NorthCarolina Sep 2013 #74

Was thinking about that yesterday. Fantastic Anarchist Sep 2013 #78

K&R woo me with science Sep 2013 #80

So, we now have single payer war and killing. Fuddnik Sep 2013 #83

Excellent observation. Octafish Sep 2013 #88

Obama WANTS Syria. Single Payer, though ... NAH!!! blkmusclmachine Sep 2013 #89

Single payer was DOA when it showed up in the senate Botany Sep 2013 #90

Are you insinuating that is the justification for him not working harder? rhett o rick Sep 2013 #105

yes Botany Sep 2013 #149

Ahh, the bullshit pragmatic justification. Shoot for what you think you can get, not for what rhett o rick Sep 2013 #150

And if we were still British subjects dflprincess Sep 2013 #151

I want better than the NHS. nm rhett o rick Sep 2013 #152

But the NHS is better than what we have now dflprincess Sep 2013 #156

I dont disagree but I want more. I want a single payer system. Sorry but I am rhett o rick Sep 2013 #157

I agree that single payer is what we should aim for dflprincess Sep 2013 #159

Big Pharma and Big Insurance guffaw. WinkyDink Sep 2013 #98

Less children would die Lex Sep 2013 #102

ANSWER: Lost jobs, ovednight, 1T$ industry. Festivito Sep 2013 #108

"dogs and cats living together!" MisterP Sep 2013 #133

Rather, all cats, different herds. eom Festivito Sep 2013 #154

The result would still be the same.. iamthebandfanman Sep 2013 #115

No kidding LittleBlue Sep 2013 #116

It still would have gotten voted down. nt jazzimov Sep 2013 #123

BAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!! upi402 Sep 2013 #125

Our only hope is the obstructionist Congress continues to be consistent liberal N proud Sep 2013 #126

obamacare i think will GRADUALLY end up single payer, as it evolves. pansypoo53219 Sep 2013 #127

Exactly! n/t zentrum Sep 2013 #129

ALL of the 2008 voters would have voted democratic again in 2010 Doctor_J Sep 2013 #130

Or a second stimulus. A jobs program. The infrastructure revitalization. Gun regulation BlueStreak Sep 2013 #131

Oh,,,,,, Cryptoad Sep 2013 #139

I haven't seen Pres Obama fight so hard for anything since he was first elected Poiuyt Sep 2013 #140

I don't think you are Obama hating and I think you are right. He's going to have to pander .... marble falls Sep 2013 #142

it wouldn't matter, the left let the radio gods make single payer politically impossible certainot Sep 2013 #146

Why would he care about Single Payer? truedelphi Sep 2013 #153

To be quite honest, he did zipplewrath Sep 2013 #155

Oh Jesus, the single payer unicorn is still being mourned as if it were ever alive nt geek tragedy Sep 2013 #158

Truly. Amazing the effort to destroy, but to build a better society...uh...nah! Safetykitten Sep 2013 #160

K&R Jamastiene Sep 2013 #161