General Discussion

Raksha

(7,167 posts)

129. They were right on then, and they are right on now.

Sat Sep 7, 2013, 05:23 PM

Sep 2013

Re "If this group was RIGHT ON then, they may just might be RIGHT ON now."

http://warisacrime.org/vips

warisacrime.org was originally called "After Downing Street" in reference to the famous leaked Downing Street memo. I remember exactly where I was when I read that famous line: "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."

Mostly I remember the horror as the meaning sank in. It was similar to the sinking horror I felt on November 21, 1963, listening to Walter Cronkite make a dreaded announcement to the nation. I knew the world I had lived in until then was forever changed. I could not know in what way and neither could anyone else, but I knew it could never be the same world again.

Thanks for the link. I think I'll go read those VIPS memos to GWB. It's been a while and I need to refresh my memory.

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U.S. Military and Intelligence Officials to Obama: �Assad NOT Responsible for Chemical Attack� [View all] Catherina Sep 2013 OP

For the third time: ProSense Sep 2013 #1

Once again you blindly pin what little credibility you have to the administration line whatchamacallit Sep 2013 #9

What usually flees a sinking ship? Hmmm..... R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2013 #14

EU: All info on Syria gas attack points to Assad ProSense Sep 2013 #15

I read your utterly unconvincing advertisement whatchamacallit Sep 2013 #18

Why do you believe the rebels gassing themselves DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2013 #27

I honestly don't know who is responsible whatchamacallit Sep 2013 #31

+1. Agreed. They have already come to terms with killing each other. So tricking GoneFishin Sep 2013 #140

It is possible, that since we are funding rebels, that we iemitsu Sep 2013 #154

The CIA Takes Orders from the Same Billionaires which Staffs the State Dept HumansAndResources Sep 2013 #191

You clarified my meaning well. iemitsu Sep 2013 #193

Nicely put. Ghost Dog Sep 2013 #194

are Assad's opponents better than Assad? samsingh Sep 2013 #205

"The rebels" are not a homogeneous group. Jackpine Radical Sep 2013 #39

Yup. progressoid Sep 2013 #138

It is called "a strategic war tactic" golfguru Sep 2013 #108

"The rebels gassing themselves" JackRiddler Sep 2013 #225

Yellowcake! Yellowcake! R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2013 #20

"but that any potential military attack against it should wait for a U.N. inspectors� report." ProSense Sep 2013 #28

What do you believe the point is? R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2013 #178

You have a long history of supporting Obama mindwalker_i Sep 2013 #70

that's really irrational. Prosense has history of one more thing uhnope Sep 2013 #122

Its the 'sticking to verifiable facts' Summer Hathaway Sep 2013 #126

as far as sticking to the verifiable facts questionseverything Sep 2013 #137

+ 1 SunSeeker Sep 2013 #177

True, but only in that PS sticks to a specific subset of verifiable facts mindwalker_i Sep 2013 #143

+10000000 -- plenty of time for blind partisanship during campaign season. nashville_brook Sep 2013 #213

her posts are 'verifiable' all right bobduca Sep 2013 #201

+1 nashville_brook Sep 2013 #212

Another thing she does is to call other people's arguments mindwalker_i Sep 2013 #222

Thanks,,, Cryptoad Sep 2013 #159

Agree with you. This is nonsense. n/t wisteria Sep 2013 #92

Hm, Drake and Rowley, or Clapper and Brennan? JackRiddler Sep 2013 #227

And for the Fourth John2 Sep 2013 #120

Politicians answer to the CIA and the NSA and the 16 other "intelligence Organizaions" that iemitsu Sep 2013 #155

+1000 Great post! Raksha Sep 2013 #169

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ bobduca Sep 2013 #200

Sorry, I don't believe the White House on Syria Ocelot Sep 2013 #158

Its got electrolytes. eom MyNameGoesHere Sep 2013 #208

Recommend jsr Sep 2013 #2

Link? Want to propagate this far and wide. K&R - nt HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #3

Just added it for you. Robert Parry at Consortium News Catherina Sep 2013 #6

Here: Coyotl Sep 2013 #7

Obama's House of Cards is collapsing rapidly. Fool us once ... Coyotl Sep 2013 #4

According to these guys, it's not Obama Nevernose Sep 2013 #8

Or so they "choose to assume." truebluegreen Sep 2013 #77

Historically, V.I.P.S. has demonstrated great integrity and collectively deserves the utmost respect proverbialwisdom Sep 2013 #114

Daniel Ellsberg, Lawrence Wilkerson, Craig Murray, Sibel Edmonds Schema Thing Sep 2013 #152

we all look forward to your detailed rebuttal.. frylock Sep 2013 #176

lol ctsnowman Sep 2013 #206

9/10- Gareth Porter: Some in US Intel. Community Reject Obama Admin Case for Syria Attack (part 1) proverbialwisdom Sep 2013 #236

You misunderstood? truebluegreen Sep 2013 #168

It's not unplausible. But I have come to suspect that he leans that way already after GoneFishin Sep 2013 #142

He'd have to be dumber than the Majority of Americans;) grahamhgreen Sep 2013 #197

It's lucky for PBO that he has decent people trying to stop him from this ill advised war MNBrewer Sep 2013 #5

That he should but he seems more comfortable with sycophants right now. Catherina Sep 2013 #10

Decent people? Larry Johnson did the "whitey tape" bullshit about Michelle Obama. msanthrope Sep 2013 #113

"Former" being the key word...nt SidDithers Sep 2013 #11

If Omama were the man I voted for randr Sep 2013 #12

Touche, randr Carolina Sep 2013 #40

Former and retired officials have the same MineralMan Sep 2013 #13

Larry Johnson is a racist nutcase. n/t ProSense Sep 2013 #16

That's as may be. MineralMan Sep 2013 #19

Hilarious TomClash Sep 2013 #95

That seems a little disingenuous MNBrewer Sep 2013 #21

I'm Discounting Both. MineralMan Sep 2013 #23

How can both of these statements be true? MNBrewer Sep 2013 #26

And you don't know my expertise or experience. MineralMan Sep 2013 #29

you said you didn't know their expertise MNBrewer Sep 2013 #33

Still being disingenuous?? MNBrewer Sep 2013 #74

:shrug: MineralMan Sep 2013 #82

I'm starting to see what others have told me is true MNBrewer Sep 2013 #84

OK. Again, :shrug: MineralMan Sep 2013 #102

MM...the signers of this letter could have current inside sources. KoKo Sep 2013 #41

Sure they could. Or not. Certainly, they did not quote any MineralMan Sep 2013 #43

Rabble...didn't name sources...Ron Paul.. Okay... KoKo Sep 2013 #47

Cool. Glad you got it. MineralMan Sep 2013 #48

"ron paul" is the DU equivalent of the "Expelliarmus" spell in Harry Potter MNBrewer Sep 2013 #59

lol's....Expelliarmus spell... good analogy! KoKo Sep 2013 #63

Expletive Ron Paul! MineralMan Sep 2013 #64

I would work with Ron Paul to keep us out of war. I would work with RAND Paul to do the same thing MNBrewer Sep 2013 #69

I don't care. Do as you please. MineralMan Sep 2013 #71

Nevermind.. KoKo Sep 2013 #144

They started their letter... Oilwellian Sep 2013 #55

Yes. They wrote that. MineralMan Sep 2013 #57

"Without corroboration, it's meaningless"? Where's the corroboration that you were in intelligence? AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #96

Yes, I suppose they could claim that. MineralMan Sep 2013 #100

Without corroboration, it's meaningless. bvar22 Sep 2013 #116

Absolutely! marew Sep 2013 #148

The guy in the fucking mail-room is a former co-worker.... Puh-Lease nt pkdu Sep 2013 #195

If I had to choose between WH, MIC, Congress or a bunch of retirees Link Speed Sep 2013 #61

Yes, well, OK. MineralMan Sep 2013 #62

I surmise their recent experience is likely better than 30 years more recent than yours. rug Sep 2013 #141

Larry Johnson's signature discredits the whole thing. geek tragedy Sep 2013 #109

Really? Does Larry Johnson's signature cancel out Colleen Rowley's? Raksha Sep 2013 #119

Larry Johnson = Orly Taitz. geek tragedy Sep 2013 #121

and of course they severe all ties with former coworkers and have zero inside connections.. frylock Sep 2013 #53

You know, it's illegal for those former coworkers MineralMan Sep 2013 #56

oh my goodness gracious! it's illegals!!11 frylock Sep 2013 #58

You seem enamored of the words MineralMan Sep 2013 #65

have a wonderful weekend frylock Sep 2013 #67

Props and Kudo's to you MineralMan, trust me when I say I understand. Rebellious Republican Sep 2013 #73

Thanks. MineralMan Sep 2013 #88

You were a peon. Peons as we all well know have different rules and access than the bosses. TheKentuckian Sep 2013 #99

OK. Whatever you believe is fine with me. MineralMan Sep 2013 #101

If you didn't care you wouldn't have made the statement and continued to argue it. TheKentuckian Sep 2013 #125

You do not know me. MineralMan Sep 2013 #156

Nonsense. I'm willing to beleive that your experience in the intelligence business has no relevance AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #85

OK. MineralMan Sep 2013 #86

Exactly. Therefore, they know nothing for certain and very much less than wisteria Sep 2013 #93

That is almost certainly true. MineralMan Sep 2013 #94

How are you in a position to judge what they know vs. what Obama knows? nm rhett o rick Sep 2013 #188

K & R !!! WillyT Sep 2013 #17

Hang the facts, hang reason, hang legality: the RW PNAC agenda must move ahead at all cost indepat Sep 2013 #22

Not a single fact on Damascus Syrian chemical attack offered. Not one. KittyWampus Sep 2013 #25

This message was self-deleted by its author MissDeeds Sep 2013 #51

This entire article boils down to 3 meager paragraphs containing not one fact, no evidence. KittyWampus Sep 2013 #24

Well, see, the people who agree with one's position are experts. MineralMan Sep 2013 #30

Barbara Lee, who was the only member of Congress to Vote against the Afghanistan War Authorization DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2013 #35

Intellectually honest? former9thward Sep 2013 #164

Or like the Iranians "Gassed Themselves" - or So We Were Told When The USA Was Backing Saddam HumansAndResources Sep 2013 #192

"I have identical credentials to any of those people." WorseBeforeBetter Sep 2013 #136

Notice Caretha Sep 2013 #170

Oh, I noticed. WorseBeforeBetter Sep 2013 #174

General Akbar? denbot Sep 2013 #32

And you know this HOW? MNBrewer Sep 2013 #34

Is Consurtium News a reputable source? iandhr Sep 2013 #36

And if this is legit, why didn't the signers send their letter to major national media sources? pnwmom Sep 2013 #38

Thats why I am skeptical iandhr Sep 2013 #49

i know, right? why isn't this in the Judy Miller Times? frylock Sep 2013 #128

Or the Boston Globe, the Washington Post, The Chicago Tribune, the Seattle Times or any number pnwmom Sep 2013 #131

and none of that matters to me. what matters is the accuracy of this group in past.. frylock Sep 2013 #132

Puh-leeze...the WP and the other "papers of record" don't want to vet the letter Raksha Sep 2013 #145

Apparently the OP thinks so. MineralMan Sep 2013 #45

Consortium is among the most reliable publications, but... JackRiddler Sep 2013 #226

But I thought who did it didn't matter. They want their damn war and, by god, they'll it valerief Sep 2013 #37

Thanks Catherina - Glad to see you posted this 99th_Monkey Sep 2013 #42

I hope he does too - not only the recognition but the reward. n/t Raksha Sep 2013 #123

Oh, I think that Assad's forces did it. The evidence for it appears much stronger than this cali Sep 2013 #44

Does not make logical sense golfguru Sep 2013 #112

Well, there's always the possibility that it was not the intention Scootaloo Sep 2013 #127

k&r...your writing style is... golfguru Sep 2013 #153

+ Infinity! - nt HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #173

K&R Junkdrawer Sep 2013 #46

BUT, does is matter?!?! blkmusclmachine Sep 2013 #50

This is beginning MissDeeds Sep 2013 #52

I find it hard to believe the rebels used chemical weapons Lifelong Dem Sep 2013 #54

What the hell do you mean, " . . . draw the US into a battle against them?" another_liberal Sep 2013 #72

No kidding Lifelong Dem Sep 2013 #76

LOL!! Larry Johnson, he of No Quarter and the "Whitey Tape." DevonRex Sep 2013 #60

The very same. MineralMan Sep 2013 #66

Whatever Senator Kerry had access to before the Iraq War started was useless David Krout Sep 2013 #75

Everyone who watched 60 Minutes KNEW the aluminum tubes DevonRex Sep 2013 #89

Kerry also seemed to forget what bringing down the strongman Saddam Hussein amandabeech Sep 2013 #147

Did the 12 people who sign this statement have to do with the 'Whitey' tape? David Krout Sep 2013 #80

That pretty well shits the damn bed! another_liberal Sep 2013 #68

Instead they're persisting. Grayson and Amash not impressed with their bogus intel Catherina Sep 2013 #78

You missed the first element in a crime-means DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2013 #87

OK, I'll bite. another_liberal Sep 2013 #146

You forget the third leg of the triad: "Means." malthaussen Sep 2013 #134

Islamist factions among the rebels have already said they have chemical weapons. another_liberal Sep 2013 #149

Assad could have a motive creeksneakers2 Sep 2013 #209

Assad is currently winning the Civil War. another_liberal Sep 2013 #215

Your title is a lie - I expect better from you muriel_volestrangler Sep 2013 #79

Sadly, the balance of opinion appears to be with the OP MineralMan Sep 2013 #97

so which actual officials have access? questionseverything Sep 2013 #135

Oh what a tangled web we weave. Rex Sep 2013 #81

Would all respondents to this OP who believe 9/11 was an inside job please step forward? Flatulo Sep 2013 #83

VIPS? All retired with no current intelligence on the matter. wisteria Sep 2013 #90

yep, that's what everyone said about these guys in the lead up to iraq.. frylock Sep 2013 #98

I cannot find nowhere that the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity Sand Wind Sep 2013 #91

"Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity" Rebellious Republican Sep 2013 #104

The link say that they are the one who make that statement...but I cannot found a single Sand Wind Sep 2013 #107

Look harder. n/t Catherina Sep 2013 #163

It's a fraud. Confirmed. Sand Wind Sep 2013 #179

Your use of a double negative is suspicious. What nation do you represent? nm rhett o rick Sep 2013 #184

Thats the new kind of racist slurs on DU ? Nt Sand Wind Sep 2013 #185

That sentence doesnt even make sense. Are you having trouble translating? What is rhett o rick Sep 2013 #187

Oh right, I remember you, you are the one who do not succeed about one of my video... Sand Wind Sep 2013 #189

What is your first language. Your sentences dont make any sense. You seem to be rhett o rick Sep 2013 #190

I agree . . . another_liberal Sep 2013 #221

I'm sorry that you have no Internet. JackRiddler Sep 2013 #229

Since you don't have any source to back this frauds, I suppose that you don't have Internet ? Nt Sand Wind Sep 2013 #230

You made the incredible claim, sir. JackRiddler Sep 2013 #231

A fraud is a fraud is a fraud, sir....nt Sand Wind Sep 2013 #232

A fool is a fool is a fool... JackRiddler Sep 2013 #234

A fraud is a fraud is a fraud, sir....nt Sand Wind Sep 2013 #232

Whoo-hoo! Now we know what 9/11 Truthers and Larry "Whitey Tape" Johnson have to say! Bolo Boffin Sep 2013 #103

What is this hierarchy, a southern person for Obama. Rebellious Republican Sep 2013 #111

Larry Johnson previously claimed he had a tape of Michelle Obama saying "whitey" msanthrope Sep 2013 #105

Larry Johnson? This kind of crap makes geek tragedy Sep 2013 #106

Its a forgery : No, any U.S. Military and Intelligence Officials are saying that to Obama. Nt Sand Wind Sep 2013 #110

Get your copies out or go find one riverbendviewgal Sep 2013 #115

"Co-workers" of veterans? George II Sep 2013 #117

I was sure the Syrians did this until I studied VIPS memo IsItJustMe Sep 2013 #118

They were right on then, and they are right on now. Raksha Sep 2013 #129

exactly. this group has some serious street cred. frylock Sep 2013 #130

Iraq isn't analagous, and the OP does not contain any verifiable facts. ProSense Sep 2013 #139

After seeing how intelligence was fabricated so that GWB could IsItJustMe Sep 2013 #219

It doesn't matter to me sulphurdunn Sep 2013 #124

Completely agree! nt marew Sep 2013 #150

Yep Cosmocat Sep 2013 #160

Interesting that VIPS cites a mirror image of a US-Israeli-Jordanian op reported by DEBKA on 08/17 leveymg Sep 2013 #133

Generally, I don't give much credence to DEBKA, amandabeech Sep 2013 #151

Nor do I. But, that one was hard to ignore. Is this the .ru site you referenced? Still up. leveymg Sep 2013 #162

I don't think so. amandabeech Sep 2013 #165

Here's a more likely RU - do you remember any screennames from way back when? leveymg Sep 2013 #199

If this memorandum is real, ... CRH Sep 2013 #157

It's real. Ray McGovern has it up on his blog. Thomas Drake tweeted it out, so did Robert Parry. Catherina Sep 2013 #161

Then Obama is toast, if he continues, ... CRH Sep 2013 #167

"A war the Pentagon doesn�t want" By Robert H. Scales, retired Army major general Catherina Sep 2013 #166

Related. proverbialwisdom Sep 2013 #172

Bookmarked. I really wonder what went through his mind when he read this Catherina Sep 2013 #180

If there is a shadow of doubt .. then we've go no business bombing that country. YOHABLO Sep 2013 #171

Indeed. Stomach-turning. As revolting as the drum bangers n/t Catherina Sep 2013 #182

Ok I got confirmation, this statement did not exist. Nt Sand Wind Sep 2013 #175

oh thank goodness.. frylock Sep 2013 #181

Impossible! But only because I have confirmation the post you replied to Dragonfli Sep 2013 #183

You got what? I suspect you have a mission here. nm rhett o rick Sep 2013 #186

Your continued disruption noted. Coyotl Sep 2013 #204

K&R grahamhgreen Sep 2013 #196

the casus belli was staged soryang Sep 2013 #198

The title of this thread vdogg Sep 2013 #202

Is the title in this thread, ... CRH Sep 2013 #207

Colleen Rowley, Anne Wright, Thomas Drake, Ray McGovern... Octafish Sep 2013 #203

do you have an Octafish file on John Brennan? nashville_brook Sep 2013 #217

Terror Tuesday guy thinks he's the right hand of Death on Earth. Octafish Sep 2013 #223

i forgot that Brennan was Hastings' next story -- did you see this? nashville_brook Sep 2013 #237

If the rebels did it creeksneakers2 Sep 2013 #210

Qaddafi did all those things right before he was toppled. keyword: humanitarian vulcans nashville_brook Sep 2013 #214

Obama to U.S. military and intelligence officials, and to us, SO WHAT? AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #211

what officials? everybody on that list has (ret) or (former) after their name. arely staircase Sep 2013 #216

While I opposed bombing Syria, I can't see how these people's opinion is any different than OregonBlue Sep 2013 #218

If our (USA) motive is to prevent death by poison gas, JEB Sep 2013 #220

FORMER U.S. Military and Intelligence Officials...nt SidDithers Sep 2013 #224

Exactly...nt greytdemocrat Sep 2013 #228

if assad didn't do it, then he should have no problem giving up the chemical weapons he ellenfl Sep 2013 #235