General Discussion

mindwalker_i

(4,407 posts)

143. True, but only in that PS sticks to a specific subset of verifiable facts

Sat Sep 7, 2013, 06:32 PM

Sep 2013

that tell a very one-sided story. People who believe something strongly will find facts to support that belief, examples include racism or religion.

PS would have us believe that there is no "funny business" in ginning up a war with Syria, as she would have us believe that the government, under Obama, is not collecting all out phone calls. She has made the argument that only metadata is being collected.

Sorry, but this was is a really bad idea. People have written eloquently about why it's a really bad idea, and I won't repeat those arguments here. Also, the government spying on us is a really bad thing, even if it were limited to being used to track terrorists, its effect on our democracy would be profound and dangerous. It's not limited to catching terrorists, which makes it a lot worse.

Defending Obama on these issues is incredible.

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U.S. Military and Intelligence Officials to Obama: �Assad NOT Responsible for Chemical Attack� [View all] Catherina Sep 2013 OP

For the third time: ProSense Sep 2013 #1

Once again you blindly pin what little credibility you have to the administration line whatchamacallit Sep 2013 #9

What usually flees a sinking ship? Hmmm..... R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2013 #14

EU: All info on Syria gas attack points to Assad ProSense Sep 2013 #15

I read your utterly unconvincing advertisement whatchamacallit Sep 2013 #18

Why do you believe the rebels gassing themselves DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2013 #27

I honestly don't know who is responsible whatchamacallit Sep 2013 #31

+1. Agreed. They have already come to terms with killing each other. So tricking GoneFishin Sep 2013 #140

It is possible, that since we are funding rebels, that we iemitsu Sep 2013 #154

The CIA Takes Orders from the Same Billionaires which Staffs the State Dept HumansAndResources Sep 2013 #191

You clarified my meaning well. iemitsu Sep 2013 #193

Nicely put. Ghost Dog Sep 2013 #194

are Assad's opponents better than Assad? samsingh Sep 2013 #205

"The rebels" are not a homogeneous group. Jackpine Radical Sep 2013 #39

Yup. progressoid Sep 2013 #138

It is called "a strategic war tactic" golfguru Sep 2013 #108

"The rebels gassing themselves" JackRiddler Sep 2013 #225

Yellowcake! Yellowcake! R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2013 #20

"but that any potential military attack against it should wait for a U.N. inspectors� report." ProSense Sep 2013 #28

What do you believe the point is? R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2013 #178

You have a long history of supporting Obama mindwalker_i Sep 2013 #70

that's really irrational. Prosense has history of one more thing uhnope Sep 2013 #122

Its the 'sticking to verifiable facts' Summer Hathaway Sep 2013 #126

as far as sticking to the verifiable facts questionseverything Sep 2013 #137

+ 1 SunSeeker Sep 2013 #177

True, but only in that PS sticks to a specific subset of verifiable facts mindwalker_i Sep 2013 #143

+10000000 -- plenty of time for blind partisanship during campaign season. nashville_brook Sep 2013 #213

her posts are 'verifiable' all right bobduca Sep 2013 #201

+1 nashville_brook Sep 2013 #212

Another thing she does is to call other people's arguments mindwalker_i Sep 2013 #222

Thanks,,, Cryptoad Sep 2013 #159

Agree with you. This is nonsense. n/t wisteria Sep 2013 #92

Hm, Drake and Rowley, or Clapper and Brennan? JackRiddler Sep 2013 #227

And for the Fourth John2 Sep 2013 #120

Politicians answer to the CIA and the NSA and the 16 other "intelligence Organizaions" that iemitsu Sep 2013 #155

+1000 Great post! Raksha Sep 2013 #169

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ bobduca Sep 2013 #200

Sorry, I don't believe the White House on Syria Ocelot Sep 2013 #158

Its got electrolytes. eom MyNameGoesHere Sep 2013 #208

Recommend jsr Sep 2013 #2

Link? Want to propagate this far and wide. K&R - nt HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #3

Just added it for you. Robert Parry at Consortium News Catherina Sep 2013 #6

Here: Coyotl Sep 2013 #7

Obama's House of Cards is collapsing rapidly. Fool us once ... Coyotl Sep 2013 #4

According to these guys, it's not Obama Nevernose Sep 2013 #8

Or so they "choose to assume." truebluegreen Sep 2013 #77

Historically, V.I.P.S. has demonstrated great integrity and collectively deserves the utmost respect proverbialwisdom Sep 2013 #114

Daniel Ellsberg, Lawrence Wilkerson, Craig Murray, Sibel Edmonds Schema Thing Sep 2013 #152

we all look forward to your detailed rebuttal.. frylock Sep 2013 #176

lol ctsnowman Sep 2013 #206

9/10- Gareth Porter: Some in US Intel. Community Reject Obama Admin Case for Syria Attack (part 1) proverbialwisdom Sep 2013 #236

You misunderstood? truebluegreen Sep 2013 #168

It's not unplausible. But I have come to suspect that he leans that way already after GoneFishin Sep 2013 #142

He'd have to be dumber than the Majority of Americans;) grahamhgreen Sep 2013 #197

It's lucky for PBO that he has decent people trying to stop him from this ill advised war MNBrewer Sep 2013 #5

That he should but he seems more comfortable with sycophants right now. Catherina Sep 2013 #10

Decent people? Larry Johnson did the "whitey tape" bullshit about Michelle Obama. msanthrope Sep 2013 #113

"Former" being the key word...nt SidDithers Sep 2013 #11

If Omama were the man I voted for randr Sep 2013 #12

Touche, randr Carolina Sep 2013 #40

Former and retired officials have the same MineralMan Sep 2013 #13

Larry Johnson is a racist nutcase. n/t ProSense Sep 2013 #16

That's as may be. MineralMan Sep 2013 #19

Hilarious TomClash Sep 2013 #95

That seems a little disingenuous MNBrewer Sep 2013 #21

I'm Discounting Both. MineralMan Sep 2013 #23

How can both of these statements be true? MNBrewer Sep 2013 #26

And you don't know my expertise or experience. MineralMan Sep 2013 #29

you said you didn't know their expertise MNBrewer Sep 2013 #33

Still being disingenuous?? MNBrewer Sep 2013 #74

:shrug: MineralMan Sep 2013 #82

I'm starting to see what others have told me is true MNBrewer Sep 2013 #84

OK. Again, :shrug: MineralMan Sep 2013 #102

MM...the signers of this letter could have current inside sources. KoKo Sep 2013 #41

Sure they could. Or not. Certainly, they did not quote any MineralMan Sep 2013 #43

Rabble...didn't name sources...Ron Paul.. Okay... KoKo Sep 2013 #47

Cool. Glad you got it. MineralMan Sep 2013 #48

"ron paul" is the DU equivalent of the "Expelliarmus" spell in Harry Potter MNBrewer Sep 2013 #59

lol's....Expelliarmus spell... good analogy! KoKo Sep 2013 #63

Expletive Ron Paul! MineralMan Sep 2013 #64

I would work with Ron Paul to keep us out of war. I would work with RAND Paul to do the same thing MNBrewer Sep 2013 #69

I don't care. Do as you please. MineralMan Sep 2013 #71

Nevermind.. KoKo Sep 2013 #144

They started their letter... Oilwellian Sep 2013 #55

Yes. They wrote that. MineralMan Sep 2013 #57

"Without corroboration, it's meaningless"? Where's the corroboration that you were in intelligence? AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #96

Yes, I suppose they could claim that. MineralMan Sep 2013 #100

Without corroboration, it's meaningless. bvar22 Sep 2013 #116

Absolutely! marew Sep 2013 #148

The guy in the fucking mail-room is a former co-worker.... Puh-Lease nt pkdu Sep 2013 #195

If I had to choose between WH, MIC, Congress or a bunch of retirees Link Speed Sep 2013 #61

Yes, well, OK. MineralMan Sep 2013 #62

I surmise their recent experience is likely better than 30 years more recent than yours. rug Sep 2013 #141

Larry Johnson's signature discredits the whole thing. geek tragedy Sep 2013 #109

Really? Does Larry Johnson's signature cancel out Colleen Rowley's? Raksha Sep 2013 #119

Larry Johnson = Orly Taitz. geek tragedy Sep 2013 #121

and of course they severe all ties with former coworkers and have zero inside connections.. frylock Sep 2013 #53

You know, it's illegal for those former coworkers MineralMan Sep 2013 #56

oh my goodness gracious! it's illegals!!11 frylock Sep 2013 #58

You seem enamored of the words MineralMan Sep 2013 #65

have a wonderful weekend frylock Sep 2013 #67

Props and Kudo's to you MineralMan, trust me when I say I understand. Rebellious Republican Sep 2013 #73

Thanks. MineralMan Sep 2013 #88

You were a peon. Peons as we all well know have different rules and access than the bosses. TheKentuckian Sep 2013 #99

OK. Whatever you believe is fine with me. MineralMan Sep 2013 #101

If you didn't care you wouldn't have made the statement and continued to argue it. TheKentuckian Sep 2013 #125

You do not know me. MineralMan Sep 2013 #156

Nonsense. I'm willing to beleive that your experience in the intelligence business has no relevance AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #85

OK. MineralMan Sep 2013 #86

Exactly. Therefore, they know nothing for certain and very much less than wisteria Sep 2013 #93

That is almost certainly true. MineralMan Sep 2013 #94

How are you in a position to judge what they know vs. what Obama knows? nm rhett o rick Sep 2013 #188

K & R !!! WillyT Sep 2013 #17

Hang the facts, hang reason, hang legality: the RW PNAC agenda must move ahead at all cost indepat Sep 2013 #22

Not a single fact on Damascus Syrian chemical attack offered. Not one. KittyWampus Sep 2013 #25

This message was self-deleted by its author MissDeeds Sep 2013 #51

This entire article boils down to 3 meager paragraphs containing not one fact, no evidence. KittyWampus Sep 2013 #24

Well, see, the people who agree with one's position are experts. MineralMan Sep 2013 #30

Barbara Lee, who was the only member of Congress to Vote against the Afghanistan War Authorization DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2013 #35

Intellectually honest? former9thward Sep 2013 #164

Or like the Iranians "Gassed Themselves" - or So We Were Told When The USA Was Backing Saddam HumansAndResources Sep 2013 #192

"I have identical credentials to any of those people." WorseBeforeBetter Sep 2013 #136

Notice Caretha Sep 2013 #170

Oh, I noticed. WorseBeforeBetter Sep 2013 #174

General Akbar? denbot Sep 2013 #32

And you know this HOW? MNBrewer Sep 2013 #34

Is Consurtium News a reputable source? iandhr Sep 2013 #36

And if this is legit, why didn't the signers send their letter to major national media sources? pnwmom Sep 2013 #38

Thats why I am skeptical iandhr Sep 2013 #49

i know, right? why isn't this in the Judy Miller Times? frylock Sep 2013 #128

Or the Boston Globe, the Washington Post, The Chicago Tribune, the Seattle Times or any number pnwmom Sep 2013 #131

and none of that matters to me. what matters is the accuracy of this group in past.. frylock Sep 2013 #132

Puh-leeze...the WP and the other "papers of record" don't want to vet the letter Raksha Sep 2013 #145

Apparently the OP thinks so. MineralMan Sep 2013 #45

Consortium is among the most reliable publications, but... JackRiddler Sep 2013 #226

But I thought who did it didn't matter. They want their damn war and, by god, they'll it valerief Sep 2013 #37

Thanks Catherina - Glad to see you posted this 99th_Monkey Sep 2013 #42

I hope he does too - not only the recognition but the reward. n/t Raksha Sep 2013 #123

Oh, I think that Assad's forces did it. The evidence for it appears much stronger than this cali Sep 2013 #44

Does not make logical sense golfguru Sep 2013 #112

Well, there's always the possibility that it was not the intention Scootaloo Sep 2013 #127

k&r...your writing style is... golfguru Sep 2013 #153

+ Infinity! - nt HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #173

K&R Junkdrawer Sep 2013 #46

BUT, does is matter?!?! blkmusclmachine Sep 2013 #50

This is beginning MissDeeds Sep 2013 #52

I find it hard to believe the rebels used chemical weapons Lifelong Dem Sep 2013 #54

What the hell do you mean, " . . . draw the US into a battle against them?" another_liberal Sep 2013 #72

No kidding Lifelong Dem Sep 2013 #76

LOL!! Larry Johnson, he of No Quarter and the "Whitey Tape." DevonRex Sep 2013 #60

The very same. MineralMan Sep 2013 #66

Whatever Senator Kerry had access to before the Iraq War started was useless David Krout Sep 2013 #75

Everyone who watched 60 Minutes KNEW the aluminum tubes DevonRex Sep 2013 #89

Kerry also seemed to forget what bringing down the strongman Saddam Hussein amandabeech Sep 2013 #147

Did the 12 people who sign this statement have to do with the 'Whitey' tape? David Krout Sep 2013 #80

That pretty well shits the damn bed! another_liberal Sep 2013 #68

Instead they're persisting. Grayson and Amash not impressed with their bogus intel Catherina Sep 2013 #78

You missed the first element in a crime-means DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2013 #87

OK, I'll bite. another_liberal Sep 2013 #146

You forget the third leg of the triad: "Means." malthaussen Sep 2013 #134

Islamist factions among the rebels have already said they have chemical weapons. another_liberal Sep 2013 #149

Assad could have a motive creeksneakers2 Sep 2013 #209

Assad is currently winning the Civil War. another_liberal Sep 2013 #215

Your title is a lie - I expect better from you muriel_volestrangler Sep 2013 #79

Sadly, the balance of opinion appears to be with the OP MineralMan Sep 2013 #97

so which actual officials have access? questionseverything Sep 2013 #135

Oh what a tangled web we weave. Rex Sep 2013 #81

Would all respondents to this OP who believe 9/11 was an inside job please step forward? Flatulo Sep 2013 #83

VIPS? All retired with no current intelligence on the matter. wisteria Sep 2013 #90

yep, that's what everyone said about these guys in the lead up to iraq.. frylock Sep 2013 #98

I cannot find nowhere that the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity Sand Wind Sep 2013 #91

"Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity" Rebellious Republican Sep 2013 #104

The link say that they are the one who make that statement...but I cannot found a single Sand Wind Sep 2013 #107

Look harder. n/t Catherina Sep 2013 #163

It's a fraud. Confirmed. Sand Wind Sep 2013 #179

Your use of a double negative is suspicious. What nation do you represent? nm rhett o rick Sep 2013 #184

Thats the new kind of racist slurs on DU ? Nt Sand Wind Sep 2013 #185

That sentence doesnt even make sense. Are you having trouble translating? What is rhett o rick Sep 2013 #187

Oh right, I remember you, you are the one who do not succeed about one of my video... Sand Wind Sep 2013 #189

What is your first language. Your sentences dont make any sense. You seem to be rhett o rick Sep 2013 #190

I agree . . . another_liberal Sep 2013 #221

I'm sorry that you have no Internet. JackRiddler Sep 2013 #229

Since you don't have any source to back this frauds, I suppose that you don't have Internet ? Nt Sand Wind Sep 2013 #230

You made the incredible claim, sir. JackRiddler Sep 2013 #231

A fraud is a fraud is a fraud, sir....nt Sand Wind Sep 2013 #232

A fool is a fool is a fool... JackRiddler Sep 2013 #234

A fraud is a fraud is a fraud, sir....nt Sand Wind Sep 2013 #232

Whoo-hoo! Now we know what 9/11 Truthers and Larry "Whitey Tape" Johnson have to say! Bolo Boffin Sep 2013 #103

What is this hierarchy, a southern person for Obama. Rebellious Republican Sep 2013 #111

Larry Johnson previously claimed he had a tape of Michelle Obama saying "whitey" msanthrope Sep 2013 #105

Larry Johnson? This kind of crap makes geek tragedy Sep 2013 #106

Its a forgery : No, any U.S. Military and Intelligence Officials are saying that to Obama. Nt Sand Wind Sep 2013 #110

Get your copies out or go find one riverbendviewgal Sep 2013 #115

"Co-workers" of veterans? George II Sep 2013 #117

I was sure the Syrians did this until I studied VIPS memo IsItJustMe Sep 2013 #118

They were right on then, and they are right on now. Raksha Sep 2013 #129

exactly. this group has some serious street cred. frylock Sep 2013 #130

Iraq isn't analagous, and the OP does not contain any verifiable facts. ProSense Sep 2013 #139

After seeing how intelligence was fabricated so that GWB could IsItJustMe Sep 2013 #219

It doesn't matter to me sulphurdunn Sep 2013 #124

Completely agree! nt marew Sep 2013 #150

Yep Cosmocat Sep 2013 #160

Interesting that VIPS cites a mirror image of a US-Israeli-Jordanian op reported by DEBKA on 08/17 leveymg Sep 2013 #133

Generally, I don't give much credence to DEBKA, amandabeech Sep 2013 #151

Nor do I. But, that one was hard to ignore. Is this the .ru site you referenced? Still up. leveymg Sep 2013 #162

I don't think so. amandabeech Sep 2013 #165

Here's a more likely RU - do you remember any screennames from way back when? leveymg Sep 2013 #199

If this memorandum is real, ... CRH Sep 2013 #157

It's real. Ray McGovern has it up on his blog. Thomas Drake tweeted it out, so did Robert Parry. Catherina Sep 2013 #161

Then Obama is toast, if he continues, ... CRH Sep 2013 #167

"A war the Pentagon doesn�t want" By Robert H. Scales, retired Army major general Catherina Sep 2013 #166

Related. proverbialwisdom Sep 2013 #172

Bookmarked. I really wonder what went through his mind when he read this Catherina Sep 2013 #180

If there is a shadow of doubt .. then we've go no business bombing that country. YOHABLO Sep 2013 #171

Indeed. Stomach-turning. As revolting as the drum bangers n/t Catherina Sep 2013 #182

Ok I got confirmation, this statement did not exist. Nt Sand Wind Sep 2013 #175

oh thank goodness.. frylock Sep 2013 #181

Impossible! But only because I have confirmation the post you replied to Dragonfli Sep 2013 #183

You got what? I suspect you have a mission here. nm rhett o rick Sep 2013 #186

Your continued disruption noted. Coyotl Sep 2013 #204

K&R grahamhgreen Sep 2013 #196

the casus belli was staged soryang Sep 2013 #198

The title of this thread vdogg Sep 2013 #202

Is the title in this thread, ... CRH Sep 2013 #207

Colleen Rowley, Anne Wright, Thomas Drake, Ray McGovern... Octafish Sep 2013 #203

do you have an Octafish file on John Brennan? nashville_brook Sep 2013 #217

Terror Tuesday guy thinks he's the right hand of Death on Earth. Octafish Sep 2013 #223

i forgot that Brennan was Hastings' next story -- did you see this? nashville_brook Sep 2013 #237

If the rebels did it creeksneakers2 Sep 2013 #210

Qaddafi did all those things right before he was toppled. keyword: humanitarian vulcans nashville_brook Sep 2013 #214

Obama to U.S. military and intelligence officials, and to us, SO WHAT? AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #211

what officials? everybody on that list has (ret) or (former) after their name. arely staircase Sep 2013 #216

While I opposed bombing Syria, I can't see how these people's opinion is any different than OregonBlue Sep 2013 #218

If our (USA) motive is to prevent death by poison gas, JEB Sep 2013 #220

FORMER U.S. Military and Intelligence Officials...nt SidDithers Sep 2013 #224

Exactly...nt greytdemocrat Sep 2013 #228

if assad didn't do it, then he should have no problem giving up the chemical weapons he ellenfl Sep 2013 #235