General Discussion

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)

45. Europeans look at war differently than civilian Americans do.

Sun Sep 8, 2013, 02:00 AM

Sep 2013

There are still craters in some European cities where the WWII bombs hit. Even young people there have had a talk or two with older adults who let them know that war is to be avoided whenever possible.

Those older people can explain how war is blood, and guts, and gore, and terrible smells, and rationing and hunger. Loved ones being killed, the fear that at any moment you could be killed yourself,. Losing loved ones. And more fear.

90% of Americans have nothing to base an aversion to war on. Even after Nine Eleven, our President at the time told everybody, "Just keep shopping!"

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The White House's handling of Syria is *historically* crazy [View all] MannyGoldstein Sep 2013 OP

Intergalactic chess, Manny. jsr Sep 2013 #1

triple layered Pharaoh Sep 2013 #160

It's utterly confounding to me too NuclearDem Sep 2013 #2

Third Wayers DO buy PNAC's agenda, hook, line and especially, sinker. n/t tavalon Sep 2013 #128

He should have ProSense Sep 2013 #3

I just hope they do the right thing and vote hell no! Heather MC Sep 2013 #49

He should NOT have done that, because it is precisely tblue37 Sep 2013 #57

It was sarcasm, but clearly ProSense Sep 2013 #74

Yeah he should have just "done it" like a REPUBLICAN bobduca Sep 2013 #60

LOL! Complaining that he was going to strike ProSense Sep 2013 #76

Peter King is a prominent member of Congress? MannyGoldstein Sep 2013 #81

Dem rep. says Obama should 'withdraw' authorization request ProSense Sep 2013 #82

Is McGovern saying something a *little* bit different than King? MannyGoldstein Sep 2013 #84

Sure, in the same way that Rand Paul says things a "*little* bit different" from people with sense. ProSense Sep 2013 #121

But hasn't the President said that the Congressional vote is merely advisory? MannyGoldstein Sep 2013 #125

There are indications that ProSense Sep 2013 #130

Couldn't someone in Congress just propose a BINDING resolution of some sort instead? n/t Sanddog42 Sep 2013 #148

Do you think he has handled this appropriately? rhett o rick Sep 2013 #97

There is some serious disconnect. Something morningfog Sep 2013 #4

I completely agree! marew Sep 2013 #14

I posted the same in another thread. It does not make sense. Mojorabbit Sep 2013 #40

Except it does add up. It does make sense. On "important" issues, we have no voice. reformist2 Sep 2013 #59

I think what's not adding up is that the accusations against Assad with the 'proof' they claimed to sabrina 1 Sep 2013 #73

+Infinity! - nt HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #83

Great post, sabrina 1. Raksha Sep 2013 #171

They are lying to us tavalon Sep 2013 #129

I believe it is about sending a message to Iran Harmony Blue Sep 2013 #5

I think Iran, Russia, China, Brazil, ...., know what "message the US is sending". delrem Sep 2013 #25

Explain further LukeFL Sep 2013 #163

The UK vote seemed to throw everything off leftstreet Sep 2013 #6

I sure and heck agree with you on this....... wandy Sep 2013 #7

The UN team was scheduled to leave at 7 am Saturday (8-31). They left at 4 am Saturday. Bolo Boffin Sep 2013 #8

That was the *second* time they pushed it up. MannyGoldstein Sep 2013 #17

OHHHHH, one day and three hours early. Bolo Boffin Sep 2013 #18

History's worst monster? I wrote that? Really? MannyGoldstein Sep 2013 #20

I'm glad you don't think Obama is history's worst monster. Bolo Boffin Sep 2013 #21

So... Why *did* the inspectors suddenly pull out a day early? MannyGoldstein Sep 2013 #143

What proof do you have that it was because of a US tipoff? Bolo Boffin Sep 2013 #149

U.N. rejects suggestion it's pulling out of Syria to allow strikes ProSense Sep 2013 #22

people were really pushing this at the time JI7 Sep 2013 #23

Oh, so there are around 1,000 UN workers in Syria right this very second? Bolo Boffin Sep 2013 #24

So desperate to believe in the Obama highprincipleswork Sep 2013 #39

"the Obama"? Bolo Boffin Sep 2013 #42

that day prevented them from collecting evidence from the 3 sites that are the excuse for attacking magical thyme Sep 2013 #67

But that is on them. Obama didn't throw them out. And other UN workers remain in Syria. Bolo Boffin Sep 2013 #138

I did not say they "threw them out," the OP did. magical thyme Sep 2013 #170

You aren't discussing the OP? I am. Bolo Boffin Sep 2013 #172

Well, you initially LIED to make it look like 3 hours. n-t Logical Sep 2013 #87

I never lie. I was wrong there. I'm happy to be corrected. n/t Bolo Boffin Sep 2013 #137

Pickett's Charge vlakitti Sep 2013 #50

Wow : a 1 post 2010er awakened into action by Manny , how quaint. pkdu Sep 2013 #52

Because we all know that post count AgingAmerican Sep 2013 #105

Pickett's Charge of American politics tavalon Sep 2013 #126

Did you think through your Q because it doesn't underthematrix Sep 2013 #165

Suggesting Obama threw the inspectors out one day and three hours early Bolo Boffin Sep 2013 #166

yes, it is loopy, but something very good could come about because of this quinnox Sep 2013 #9

The cynic in me is with you there. joshcryer Sep 2013 #56

The House will review their stock portfolios & realize that we need to send Syria a message. CrispyQ Sep 2013 #69

I think we should think of the children tavalon Sep 2013 #127

Hubris wilsonbooks Sep 2013 #10

Obliterated middle class, homelessness, et. al. is boring shit, Manny BuelahWitch Sep 2013 #11

I'm pissed. This is what he finally decides to fight for. We have been waiting for him to be willing liberal_at_heart Sep 2013 #12

+100 truebluegreen Sep 2013 #70

Many otherwise skeptical people like the folks on DU were seduced by Obama's soaring rhetoric into HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #80

+1 Dems to Win Sep 2013 #142

You are not alone in your wild negative predictions about this matter Pretzel_Warrior Sep 2013 #13

I think Obama's push to escalate the Syrian war fits seamlessly into what'll be his legacy. delrem Sep 2013 #28

You spelled it all out exactly how I see it. Just a continuation of the PNAC agenda. loudsue Sep 2013 #54

Obama is throwing any 'Legacy' he might have.... Vanje Sep 2013 #122

And this makes me so sad MissDeeds Sep 2013 #140

This... Triana Sep 2013 #15

he could have gone to war without the congress approval madrchsod Sep 2013 #16

yes and no about Congressional approval azurnoir Sep 2013 #37

That's not in my copy of the Constitution MNBrewer Sep 2013 #71

War Powers Resolution azurnoir Sep 2013 #139

If he'd gone after stimulus money this aggressively pscot Sep 2013 #19

Thank you! nt snappyturtle Sep 2013 #41

^^This^^ 99Forever Sep 2013 #64

i agree except for the 2nd one SwampG8r Sep 2013 #26

How venal, to judge a call to war as some kind of contest between D's and R's. delrem Sep 2013 #31

Maybe you should stick to the fine arts HangOnKids Sep 2013 #47

Post removed Post removed Sep 2013 #48

I think Obama and staff are thinking of the larger issues of TwilightGardener Sep 2013 #27

Yah, that's what GWB and staff were thinking of. WMD.... and warbergarble warbergarble... delrem Sep 2013 #29

Sure, Sparky. Obama is a black George Bush. Syria doesn't even have chem weapons, TwilightGardener Sep 2013 #32

That's just over the top hand waving. delrem Sep 2013 #34

I thought I covered it pretty well. Happy trails, then. TwilightGardener Sep 2013 #35

You and I both knew Hagel meant war was coming. You were thrilled with Republicans Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #68

Do you KNOW whats going on in LIbya now? bvar22 Sep 2013 #75

I'm not sure where you come down on the question of military intervention in Syria, but this HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #85

Thanks. I am undecided on a Syrian strike for chem weapon use--but TwilightGardener Sep 2013 #151

You would think he learned SOMETHING from Iraq. Apparently it was all the wrong things. dkf Sep 2013 #30

He always said he wanted to bring Americans together. FourScore Sep 2013 #33

Bring Americans Together bobduca Sep 2013 #61

I do agree. but Chaco Dundee Sep 2013 #36

Europeans look at war differently than civilian Americans do. truedelphi Sep 2013 #45

so true Chaco Dundee Sep 2013 #53

My friend, I would like to share with you a poem by Thomas Hardy: HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #89

thank you Chaco Dundee Sep 2013 #94

Another poem by Matthew Arnold that may bring you some peace: HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #96

One of my favorites. Norman Mailer liked it, too. Comrade Grumpy Sep 2013 #117

Shit, I had totally forgotten that book until now. It was great reporting by a great HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #119

Hmmm... Just Saying Sep 2013 #38

It is pretty mind boggling. David__77 Sep 2013 #43

Add to the points you are discussing the salient fact that Kerry simply could not truedelphi Sep 2013 #44

Those in charge seem to have forgotten too much of the past. Autumn Sep 2013 #65

They should friggin' study August 1914, imho - nt HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #90

K&R idwiyo Sep 2013 #46

"threw the UN out of [mid-east country] early so we could bomb" Beartracks Sep 2013 #51

If, and it's a *big if,* he takes it to the UN... joshcryer Sep 2013 #55

+1. nt newfie11 Sep 2013 #58

Our next President needs to be an orphan, single, no children, no family, no loved ones. Scuba Sep 2013 #62

+1 nashville_brook Sep 2013 #72

And no religion too LiberalLovinLug Sep 2013 #109

+2 Hestia Sep 2013 #152

Remember Mc Cain Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb Iraq like a beach boy... polynomial Sep 2013 #63

You mean like this..... Rebellious Republican Sep 2013 #124

If you approach his behavior dispassionately it makes no sense at all DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2013 #66

Every word you say is true. I even called the WH truedelphi Sep 2013 #153

I prefer to think of it more as the Custer's Last Stand of American politics, but HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #77

Dude was hand picked to be the anti-bush, bush. n/t whatchamacallit Sep 2013 #78

K&R MotherPetrie Sep 2013 #79

"to make damned sure that the 80% of Americans who disagree with him on this issue forestpath Sep 2013 #86

Or he'll allow his Chief of Staff to call us "fucking retarded" like his HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #91

Maybe he's trying to kill the Unitary Executive for good. DirkGently Sep 2013 #88

Now that's some nth-dimensional chess! :) - nt HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #92

Might have pulled a muscle straining there. 8) DirkGently Sep 2013 #93

War Hawk blkmusclmachine Sep 2013 #95

The big mistake was number one on that list. Benton D Struckcheon Sep 2013 #98

The President has set up a win-win situation for the Republicans. rhett o rick Sep 2013 #99

Obama had the GOP on the proverbial mat and down for the count in Jan. 2009. Amazing HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #101

Mindblowing. nt MannyGoldstein Sep 2013 #115

This is no way erases the GOP in shape, form or fashion. In fact, when the Democratic party Hestia Sep 2013 #154

You make a good point. It will all hinge on whether or not he overrules Congress. nm rhett o rick Sep 2013 #157

"This will go down in history as a very bizarre and self-ruinous episode..." Ocelot Sep 2013 #100

"Obama is a danger to the American people and the entire planet." ProSense Sep 2013 #103

No, I think he's just cold and calculating (n/t) Ocelot Sep 2013 #107

Some people have been saying that since 2007. ProSense Sep 2013 #110

Let me know when he proves the NSA abuses "hyperbole" wrong Ocelot Sep 2013 #112

Agreed! MannyGoldstein Sep 2013 #114

"Obama's Vietnam": ProSense Sep 2013 #116

I disagree that he is "mad". He is very smart and calculating. Problem rhett o rick Sep 2013 #159

I have been wondering for a couple of days avaistheone1 Sep 2013 #102

"if the man in the Oval office isn't crazy himself." ProSense Sep 2013 #104

I think that is why so many of us have been actively calling and emailing our reps, prosense. avaistheone1 Sep 2013 #106

We'll see how this plays out. n/t ProSense Sep 2013 #111

When one considers... Oilwellian Sep 2013 #145

I would just call it AgingAmerican Sep 2013 #108

Six interviews in a couple of days? another_liberal Sep 2013 #113

This train is never late. cliffordu Sep 2013 #118

Its not going well for the overall Obama Presidency Vanje Sep 2013 #120

Pickett's Charge of American politics tavalon Sep 2013 #123

. snagglepuss Sep 2013 #131

It fits right in with a country that has torture camps and limitless spying Corruption Inc Sep 2013 #132

The ONLY thing that makes ANY sense at all... bvar22 Sep 2013 #133

Make shit happen on the Dems' watch. Ghost Dog Sep 2013 #146

Am I reading this correctly? Sanddog42 Sep 2013 #168

K&R avaistheone1 Sep 2013 #134

Yup. It's one of the weirdest zentrum Sep 2013 #135

It makes no sense Admiral, except to solely fulfill a longstanding RW PNAC wet dream indepat Sep 2013 #136

The Terror, Terror, Terror Card is coming alsame Sep 2013 #141

Nope, it's just "common sense": HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #144

Oh, my... ocpagu Sep 2013 #155

To be the Pickett's charge He would have to hootinholler Sep 2013 #147

''Pickett's Charge of American politics.'' DeSwiss Sep 2013 #150

Another Manny Prediction? JoePhilly Sep 2013 #156

At least he posts more than a copy of Sid's rude emoticon. Is that "The Group's" rhett o rick Sep 2013 #158

Are there any previous predictions that you have an issue with? MannyGoldstein Sep 2013 #161

What You See is What You Get School Teacher Sep 2013 #162

You think it's bizarre because your lens is the media hype. underthematrix Sep 2013 #164

good point (n/t) Sanddog42 Sep 2013 #167

No Carriers in the Mediterranean I think is the best explanation. happyslug Sep 2013 #169