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Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)

79. Okay, time for a reality check

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 02:00 AM

Sep 2013

Barack Obama's a smart guy, and even though I disagree with him deeply here, I think his heart's in the right place.

Problem is? He's not the only smart guy in this picture. Bashar Assad's a smart guy. King Abdullah - both of them, Jordan and Saudi Arabia - are smart guys. Khamenei is a smart guy. Netanyahu is a smart guy. Putin's a smart guy. Erdogan's a smart guy. There's all these smart guys involved in this, and they're all pulling in their own directions.

So while we can acknowledge that here's this thing that Obama wants... we also need to realize that there's also all these other things that he doesn't want, but are still very likely to happen despite his desires and efforts, because 1) he's not operating in a vacuum and 2) nobody can know everything.

Maybe Mike Tyson isn't on the same tier as those smart guys, but he does have at least one smart thing he's said - "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

What I'm getting at is that even if we grant the president is a good guy, a smart guy, doing his very best for the best result possible... we can't take that as a guarantee that that is how things will actually go. And in this case, the possible numbero f bad, even horrible outcomes - not just for the US but for everyone involved vastly outweigh the handful of best-case scenarios.

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Please understand, any U.S. military action in Syria means that we're being dragged into a proxy war [View all] scarletwoman Sep 2013 OP

Sounds about right. dipsydoodle Sep 2013 #1

Thank you. scarletwoman Sep 2013 #6

except for the part where the CIC is Obama, not Bush pasto76 Sep 2013 #56

"Actions have ends." Maybe you forgot that 2 years ago, in 2011, Obama began saying "Assad must go"? scarletwoman Sep 2013 #61

+ 100 nt Mojorabbit Sep 2013 #70

Now there is the nitty gritty of the situation JEB Sep 2013 #93

+1000 Fantastic Anarchist Sep 2013 #111

Thank you... Rockyj Sep 2013 #119

Okay, time for a reality check Scootaloo Sep 2013 #79

+1 dionysus Sep 2013 #107

K&R NuclearDem Sep 2013 #2

Thanks. scarletwoman Sep 2013 #7

Yup. That's exactly how I see it. Jackpine Radical Sep 2013 #3

There's obviously some weird stuff with Russia going on as well, scarletwoman Sep 2013 #9

The more I learn about this, Jeff Murdoch Sep 2013 #52

I believe you summed it up pretty well. Uncle Joe Sep 2013 #4

Thank you. Your support means a lot to me. scarletwoman Sep 2013 #12

Peace to you, scarletwoman. Uncle Joe Sep 2013 #17

Exactly Aerows Sep 2013 #5

Thanks. After our last exchange I decided it was time to come out with an OP. scarletwoman Sep 2013 #14

We are most fiercely up against it Aerows Sep 2013 #15

Like Zappa said-- Jackpine Radical Sep 2013 #29

One of my favorite quotes - and now it's in this thread twice! (see post #30) scarletwoman Sep 2013 #34

An outright win by the Sunni Jihadists in Syria would be dangerous to Israel. FarCenter Sep 2013 #8

Well, Israel has the nuke card - maybe they figure that gives them some leverage with the Saudis. scarletwoman Sep 2013 #10

Israel is the ultimate target, and the Islamists will work at it until Israel is removed. FarCenter Sep 2013 #16

The Saudis are just fine with Israel. Israel gives them added leverage with the U.S. scarletwoman Sep 2013 #18

There is talk of a back channel pact between SA and Israel. roamer65 Sep 2013 #42

I'm bothering to argue Aerows Sep 2013 #11

Only a monster would use either on human beings. another_liberal Sep 2013 #24

Nor do I Aerows Sep 2013 #26

Willie Peter, napalm, DU--all tools of the trade in our benevolent military. Jackpine Radical Sep 2013 #31

And I am still losing friends to Orange n/t Link Speed Sep 2013 #33

Dont leave out land mines and cluster bombs. nm rhett o rick Sep 2013 #74

Armies don't tend to clean up after themselves. another_liberal Sep 2013 #87

And Depleted Uranium. nm rhett o rick Sep 2013 #75

Also true. another_liberal Sep 2013 #85

Those that can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. robinlynne Sep 2013 #27

Voltaire nt Electric Monk Sep 2013 #49

ohhh. robinlynne Sep 2013 #60

K&R I think we need to spread the word felix_numinous Sep 2013 #13

"...please try to convince young people not to fight." Amen. scarletwoman Sep 2013 #19

It was read by Commandant David M. Shoup who left after JFK's assignation and refused to be AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #43

I did not know this! Thank you so much for this information! scarletwoman Sep 2013 #55

It's good to see your interest. It may be worthwhile to borrow a book from your library system, AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #58

K & R !!! WillyT Sep 2013 #20

Thank you! scarletwoman Sep 2013 #22

indeed. nashville_brook Sep 2013 #21

Hi nb! scarletwoman Sep 2013 #35

:) nashville_brook Sep 2013 #99

And while we fight this war Mr.Bill Sep 2013 #23

Oh yes. The House of Saud has hypocrisy down to a fine art. (nt) scarletwoman Sep 2013 #25

Probably with those decadent Kuwaiti douches - nt9 HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #47

True, I believe that also. Autumn Sep 2013 #28

Thanks for the kick and the rec! It just seems very obvious, doesn't it? scarletwoman Sep 2013 #36

Reality will reach out and slap you in the face. Autumn Sep 2013 #46

It's all that...... DeSwiss Sep 2013 #30

Excellent post! Thank you! scarletwoman Sep 2013 #38

Yes excellent post. And sometimes I fear that truedelphi Sep 2013 #80

It is our choice how this works out. DeSwiss Sep 2013 #109

All of those are excellent to consider. The last bit truedelphi Sep 2013 #120

I know it seems hard. DeSwiss Sep 2013 #121

Thanks for that advice. truedelphi Sep 2013 #122

K&R. MotherPetrie Sep 2013 #32

Thank you. Glad to see you. scarletwoman Sep 2013 #39

Yes. A proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran. roamer65 Sep 2013 #37

It's about power and control in the Ummah. And money, of course. (nt) scarletwoman Sep 2013 #40

You may be right about PNAC... Ztolkins Sep 2013 #41

The PNAC may no longer exist as a formal organization (above ground, that is), scarletwoman Sep 2013 #54

Iran could have an atomic bomb by mid-2014, according to David Albright, former UN weapons inspector DhhD Sep 2013 #97

The Islamic leadership of Saudi Arabia will be behind our troops. Far behind. AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #44

+ Infinity! - nt HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #48

TPTB are gonna help protect their buds' interests indepat Sep 2013 #45

WoW Good Punditry otohara Sep 2013 #50

Pundits warned us from entering proxy wars? Democracyinkind Sep 2013 #83

Those would be very unusual pundits, I think. scarletwoman Sep 2013 #84

Exactly gopiscrap Sep 2013 #51

You have properly described one-half of the problem. brisas2k Sep 2013 #53

Thank you for your feedback. scarletwoman Sep 2013 #63

K & R pangaia Sep 2013 #57

I'm glad you found this helpful. scarletwoman Sep 2013 #62

That sums it up pretty well. n/t Raksha Sep 2013 #59

Thank you. scarletwoman Sep 2013 #65

k&r brief and to the point Puzzledtraveller Sep 2013 #64

thanks for the K&R! scarletwoman Sep 2013 #66

Take a look at this: scarletwoman Sep 2013 #67

Thank you . . . markpkessinger Sep 2013 #68

I don't do facebook, so I'm very glad you posted you fb post here - great post! scarletwoman Sep 2013 #69

Clear and succinct. Thank you! n/t Catherina Sep 2013 #71

You're welcome! Thanks for the kick! (nt) scarletwoman Sep 2013 #76

Oh yes. BIG K&R nt riderinthestorm Sep 2013 #72

Thank you! scarletwoman Sep 2013 #77

Of course we are the Saudis merc force workinclasszero Sep 2013 #73

Indeed! And this post illustrates it beautifully: scarletwoman Sep 2013 #82

K&R liberal_at_heart Sep 2013 #78

Morning kick. scarletwoman Sep 2013 #81

Since it also will be a proxy war US/Russia once more... Celefin Sep 2013 #86

Yup. Surely heady stuff for the MIC! scarletwoman Sep 2013 #89

Juan Cole has a good piece about this today. joshcryer Sep 2013 #88

Thanks! Do you have the link handy, by any chance? (nt) scarletwoman Sep 2013 #90

For whatever reason they want to pump the natural gas TBF Sep 2013 #91

Weekday am kick nt riderinthestorm Sep 2013 #92

Nothing matters but that pipeline. nt silvershadow Sep 2013 #94

Saudi Arabia is the invisible hand in nearly all of our mideast policy markiv Sep 2013 #95

Bush kisses Saudi Prince. What is Obama doing? DhhD Sep 2013 #98

I think we should stay the hell out. MynameisBlarney Sep 2013 #96

Thanks, but "dragged" is not the word for it. merrily Sep 2013 #100

Our leaders make the choice - it is the rest of us who get "dragged" along. scarletwoman Sep 2013 #118

I agree, as long as it's clear that our elected whatevers are not victims of merrily Sep 2013 #123

Much bigger drivers than chemical weapons. DirkGently Sep 2013 #101

It's not simply "Sunni" versus "Shiite" as we BlueMTexpat Sep 2013 #102

I think more us understand this than you think although between the media and the republicans I can liberal_at_heart Sep 2013 #104

I did not mean to talk down to anyone. BlueMTexpat Sep 2013 #105

no harm done. liberal_at_heart Sep 2013 #106

Very well said. Fantastic Anarchist Sep 2013 #115

You make some good points, and I thank you for the time & energy that went into your post. scarletwoman Sep 2013 #116

I also think a new cost/benefit analysis has been reviewed. reusrename Sep 2013 #103

Spot on! BlueJac Sep 2013 #108

Thank you! scarletwoman Sep 2013 #117

What nobody ever seems to understand Mosaic Sep 2013 #110

More to do with oil than anything else (n/t) Ocelot Sep 2013 #114

Anyone who supports attacking Syria needs to ENLIST NOW Ocelot Sep 2013 #112

YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK blkmusclmachine Sep 2013 #113