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Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
37. Your examples have nothing to do with the current issue
Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:42 AM
Sep 2013

The law that makes the president CinC is the Constitution, and the Constitution is pretty specific on the subject:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articlei#section8

The Congress shall have power ...
To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;


When Congress has authorized a field of action, the president's power then comes into play. And the president is authorized to take immediate defensive action against attacks on the US, US territories, US personnel, or US forces, but that is not the current case.

A president is authorized to use immediate force in many circumstances, most immediately and specifically to defend against attack. The president is not authorized to simply initiate hostilities. I refer you to this paragraph from Campbell v Clinton:
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-dc-circuit/1177126.html
In this case, Congress certainly could have passed a law forbidding the use of U.S. forces in the Yugoslav campaign; ?indeed, there was a measure-albeit only a concurrent resolution-introduced to require the President to withdraw U.S. troops. ? Unfortunately, however, for those congressmen who, like appellants, desired an end to U.S. involvement in Yugoslavia, this measure was defeated by a 139 to 290 vote. ? Of course, Congress always retains appropriations authority and could have cut off funds for the American role in the conflict. ? Again there was an effort to do so but it failed; ?appropriations were authorized. ? And there always remains the possibility of impeachment should a President act in disregard of Congress' authority on these matters.


In that case Clinton sent the WPA report to Congress and Congress took mixed action - funded it, did not pass war authorization, voted down negation of the action. But note that the legal wrangling in this case turned largely on the idea that the Congressmen who sued did not have standing to sue not because the president's actions were necessarily constitutional, but because Congress already had the legislative power to accomplish its aim, including negation by statute, removal of funding and impeachment.

Note that the 2011 Libya actions by the president overrode internal legal opinions!
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/18/world/africa/18powers.html?_r=0

The rather tenuous justification for Libya is not even present with Syria.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Impeachment is for crimes. It isn't for getting rid of presidents you don't like. *Edit: It isn't?* DireStrike Sep 2013 #1
Many DUers seem to believe that military intervention would be a "war crime" (nt) Nye Bevan Sep 2013 #4
Without UN sanction it would be a war crime. morningfog Sep 2013 #7
Go pound salt. The UN has ZERO legal authority in ANYTHING. alphafemale Sep 2013 #8
The UN has zero legal authority? morningfog Sep 2013 #9
What's with this "legal authority under U.S. law" stuff, Commie? You must be one of those HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #13
The UN is a glorified fucking committee. alphafemale Sep 2013 #19
So are you advocating that the U.S. withdraw from the U.N. and stop HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #10
UN has say so over US law? alphafemale Sep 2013 #15
Every treaty the U.S. enters into acquires the full force and authority as the HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #18
Treaties are NOT law. nt alphafemale Sep 2013 #20
Oy vey. Please re-read Article VI of the U.S. Constitution HardTimes99 Sep 2013 #23
Treaties most certainly are law. morningfog Sep 2013 #24
Indian treaties may seem like historical documents, but, G_j Sep 2013 #27
Treaties are not law...Wow...searing brillance there. Katashi_itto Sep 2013 #39
What are the penalties for violating a treaty? alphafemale Sep 2013 #50
Who cares if you believe treaties aren't meaningful? Katashi_itto Sep 2013 #57
Not my point and you damn well know it. alphafemale Sep 2013 #58
Yes it is the point, you stated it yourself. Katashi_itto Sep 2013 #59
When have the STRONG adhered to a treaty. alphafemale Sep 2013 #63
And the answer is still is obvious, you just refuse to realize it. Katashi_itto Sep 2013 #65
Treaties are NOT equal to the Constitution. NYC Liberal Sep 2013 #26
No, the CONSTITUTION does MNBrewer Sep 2013 #45
Yeah we respect UN sanctions NEVER alphafemale Sep 2013 #47
The U S is a permanent member of the Security Council DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2013 #16
Article 6 of the US Constitution Xithras Sep 2013 #42
Does the UN dictate US Law. Yes or No? alphafemale Sep 2013 #29
Lol, the US has ratified the charters it has signed with the UN. morningfog Sep 2013 #32
Nothing out of the UN dictates US law. alphafemale Sep 2013 #34
The Constitution begs to differ. MNBrewer Sep 2013 #46
There is no such thing as International Law. alphafemale Sep 2013 #36
It would certainly be a crime against peace since it wouldn't be defensive. joshcryer Sep 2013 #22
Bush is and was the war crime of the century Obama is not guilty of anything except being born black Tippy Sep 2013 #35
It is always a waste. alphafemale Sep 2013 #66
Actually impeachment is a political process. joshcryer Sep 2013 #17
How about that. huh. DireStrike Sep 2013 #54
Unbelievable. n/t Bolo Boffin Sep 2013 #2
Obama is 100% wrong on this, but impeachment is silly! n-t Logical Sep 2013 #3
Umm, I must have wound up at Free Republic by mistake... heading to DU now. eom tarheelsunc Sep 2013 #5
Good grief! HappyMe Sep 2013 #6
Nope Spider Jerusalem Sep 2013 #11
Don't support it, but I do think if it happens it would benefit Democrats eridani Sep 2013 #12
It would be a political bonanza but morally odious DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2013 #21
However you feel about this instance it's established law the president can order force DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2013 #14
Really? Do you want to cite the Constitutional basis for your contention? Yo_Mama Sep 2013 #30
It's the spirit of the law that deems the president the Commander In Chief. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2013 #33
Your examples have nothing to do with the current issue Yo_Mama Sep 2013 #37
What part of DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2013 #49
It is not established law that the president can order force without prior authorization always Yo_Mama Sep 2013 #67
If it is done unconstitutionally, yes. Yo_Mama Sep 2013 #25
No. Not in any way. We are signatories to the ban on the use MineralMan Sep 2013 #28
Show me where the CWC or any US implementation act authorizes attacks? Yo_Mama Sep 2013 #40
Ask me again after Bush's conviction. Democracyinkind Sep 2013 #31
Bush did go to Congress and did get authorization for Iraq Yo_Mama Sep 2013 #38
If the majority of Americans supported it leftstreet Sep 2013 #41
If Congress were to prohibit it, and he did it anyway, then yes. Xithras Sep 2013 #43
Obama Has No 'Intention' To Strike Syria If Congress Says No (NPR - 6 September) struggle4progress Sep 2013 #44
Yes, I would LittleBlue Sep 2013 #48
What ever! War criminals still run free and the law means nothing. n/t L0oniX Sep 2013 #51
Of course not! Impeachment is only YarnAddict Sep 2013 #52
As Gerald Ford said... David__77 Sep 2013 #53
For blowing the fuck out of someone? Naw Spirochete Sep 2013 #55
No and rusty fender Sep 2013 #56
Interesting that you did not vote in your own poll. MineralMan Sep 2013 #60
I thought I was the only one who noticed that... Ohio Joe Sep 2013 #61
Well, I usually look at the votes in polls to see how the MineralMan Sep 2013 #62
I very rarely vote in my own polls. Nye Bevan Sep 2013 #64
. Egalitarian Thug Sep 2013 #68
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