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Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)

72. Running from one extreme statement to another in an incredulous tone doesn't create validity

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 07:18 PM

Sep 2013

the hyerbole doesn't make the case you are trying to make.

Political negotiations are not black or white, negotiations are NEVER yes or no. If you haven't figured that out yet in the years Obama has been in office and the things he has pulled off even after a crap load of whining on DU, then all I can say is willfull blindness cannot be cured.

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On this occasion we should be grateful that Obama failed. [View all] Donald Ian Rankin Sep 2013 OP

He didn't fail. Winding down wars is not the hallmark of a warmonger. CakeGrrl Sep 2013 #1

"He didnt fail". And that's the most important thing. That might be rhett o rick Sep 2013 #13

+1 Marr Sep 2013 #19

Whether he failed or won is a matter of perspective and secondary to rhett o rick Sep 2013 #25

Well, he didn't fail. Skidmore Sep 2013 #23

I think Obama did plan to attack, and still may do so. TwilightGardener Sep 2013 #2

maybe he felt strongly about chemical weapons used on kids. we know he has no ulterior motive for seabeyond Sep 2013 #3

I'm sure he did. I think his cure was probably even worse than the malady, though. Donald Ian Rankin Sep 2013 #14

Agent Defeat Weapons VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #26

Putin openly admits they discussed the Russian initiative last week. phleshdef Sep 2013 #4

But the story does not start at the G20 which was 5th and 6th September Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #9

Clearly O forced Putin to make a stand larkrake Sep 2013 #5

At this point, I don't care if they bungled their way into this solution deutsey Sep 2013 #6

Of course you don't VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #28

God, you make me laugh deutsey Sep 2013 #30

Yeah and today...I am laughing my ass off in the faces of alot of folks around here... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #38

"that dared step to me" deutsey Sep 2013 #41

Andy Kaufman? VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #44

Ibby-dah? deutsey Sep 2013 #45

He hasn't yet said he will not attack. DirkGently Sep 2013 #7

It was the intended result... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #29

The stated goal was to punish Assad with missile strikes. DirkGently Sep 2013 #56

The threat of such was the ONLY thing that would get Assad to play ball... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #59

Yeah. Nobody thinks that. DirkGently Sep 2013 #61

So you seriously think they don't have a range of scenarios about what might happen VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #62

Sure. Failure to get the war they wanted IS a win. DirkGently Sep 2013 #64

President Obama did not fail, he succeeded in averting a war. I don't think it was 3-d chess LaydeeBug Sep 2013 #8

I don't think averting the war you wanted to start DirkGently Sep 2013 #65

Apparently "failure" means that you didn't predict the exact outcome from the beginning. Skinner Sep 2013 #10

I was thinking of starting an OP to this effect. Uncle Joe Sep 2013 #12

Glad to see you commenting on this. Number23 Sep 2013 #21

I completely agree, very well said. nt Waiting For Everyman Sep 2013 #24

there's 2 issues here that aren't clear vis a vis what the "failure" is nashville_brook Sep 2013 #66

No. One good chem compromise. One failed war. DirkGently Sep 2013 #68

Good post. tammywammy Sep 2013 #75

Agree. kentuck Sep 2013 #85

Obama and Kerry kicked ass and took names. They did not fail. They WON big time. Zorra Sep 2013 #11

On t he contrary, I'm pleased by the outcome. Donald Ian Rankin Sep 2013 #15

How could it have happened without a credible threat from... Motown_Johnny Sep 2013 #18

and you "know" this how? VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #31

I think you're confused. You're talking to me, not to somebody else. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Sep 2013 #48

Yeah I am talking to you..."Ian" VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #51

Except actually you're not. Donald Ian Rankin Sep 2013 #52

Right...whatever you say "Ian" VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #55

Failed? I count 4 wins... Motown_Johnny Sep 2013 #16

Praise be! whatchamacallit Sep 2013 #17

You're right. I think the fact that the American people were against military action SomethingFishy Sep 2013 #20

I say it was part of the entire plan...Obama would not be looking so resolute VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #32

Yes, well, you would. SomethingFishy Sep 2013 #36

You damn skippy I would... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #40

you're hilarious. I came down off my mountain to say Obama F'D UP!!! Pretzel_Warrior Sep 2013 #22

I tend to agree. I will also illustrate the worst possible reading of this whole situation quinnox Sep 2013 #27

As I said before...this man is a pragmatist... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #34

I agree. ocpagu Sep 2013 #33

Its better than what you got...which is a big fat zero! VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #35

It's not about me, is it? ocpagu Sep 2013 #54

Conspiracy theory????? An Embarrassment???? VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #57

Yep. A conspiracy theory. ocpagu Sep 2013 #60

And even presuming so, what would of happen if Russia didn't follow along and Congress said "yes" NoOneMan Sep 2013 #37

How else would Syria have been drawn into the CWA without the threat of violence exactly? VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #47

Syria is between a rock and a hard place. They are in a Civil War NoOneMan Sep 2013 #63

K&R Rewriting of history by the politically invested is a dangerous thing woo me with science Sep 2013 #39

So you think Putin and Obama are both lying when they said this geek tragedy Sep 2013 #42

could you clarify what exactly is Obama's failure in this scenario? Sheepshank Sep 2013 #43

It looks like the US will not attack Syria. Obama was trying to arrange such an attack. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Sep 2013 #50

really......? Sheepshank Sep 2013 #58

He asked America for war. America said "No." DirkGently Sep 2013 #69

A very public, loud, persistent push for military intervention, sent it's own message Sheepshank Sep 2013 #70

I see. He was putting us all on, was he? DirkGently Sep 2013 #71

Running from one extreme statement to another in an incredulous tone doesn't create validity Sheepshank Sep 2013 #72

The extreme position is the notion Obama didn't adjust DirkGently Sep 2013 #73

Ahh I see you position Sheepshank Sep 2013 #74

Backing down & negotiating was the right thing to do. DirkGently Sep 2013 #76

"Obama certainly tried to keep the threat of a strike alive in his speech last night. " Sheepshank Sep 2013 #78

I do not think U.S. threats are the sole power in the world, no. DirkGently Sep 2013 #80

looks like my assertions were not too far off the mark after all Sheepshank Sep 2013 #81

Youch. Not a credible source, to say the least. DirkGently Sep 2013 #82

see you are back to the extreme... Sheepshank Sep 2013 #83

You cited an OP that claimed Obama planned it all. DirkGently Sep 2013 #84

He may not have "failed" but, thanks to the Brit Parliament and the polls, we won. Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2013 #46

Thanks to the Brit Parliament? VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #49

The Brit parliament voted against the war. Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2013 #53

He didn't fail, he went before Congress. Rex Sep 2013 #67

If say that avoiding war through diplomacy, be it accidental or not, is NOT a failure. cleanhippie Sep 2013 #77

Yep, that's step one. Step two will be you taking credit for the outcome. great white snark Sep 2013 #79