General Discussion

earthside

(6,960 posts)

40. And your animosity towards democracy?

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:14 PM

Sep 2013

We live in a representative democracy.

The two recalled legislators were fairly and legitimately elected ... their views on various issues were well known.

When the gun idolators saw the results of representative democracy exercised in the Colorado state legislature, they cherry-picked four districts and targeted those elected officials for recall.

In two of those districts they couldn't even get the required number of signatures (I live in one or those districts). In the southern part of Colorado they were more successful.

So, in Pueblo and Colorado Springs the gun idolators used legal means to essentially subvert the regular election process -- just because they didn't like the results of four or five votes votes on gun regulations in the state legislature -- not because Morse and Giron were corrupt or incompetent, but because they could not stand the rule of the majority.

That is animosity towards democracy.

But I'm not too chagrined. The magazine limit and the background check laws are popular among the majority of Colorado citizens. Gov. Hickenlooper, Sen. Udall and the Democratic majorities in the state assembly are safe for 2014.

Indeed, the recalls ultimately show the extremism and craziness of the Tea Party-Gun Idolator-Repuglican mob. The recalls will be a pyrrhic victory for the gun idolators, in my estimation. Democracy will triumph in Colorado, no matter how much the Reuglicans and gun radicals try to subvert it.

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Highlight:

When You Cannot Pass Even Reasonable Guns Laws In The Light Of Massacres You Are Beyond Hope. [View all] TheMastersNemesis Sep 2013 OP

Read this OP, everyone: Is this the way you want to go? Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #1

A lot of baseless accusations there rl6214 Sep 2013 #5

It's nothing less than a screed against democracy itself. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #18

And which way do YOU want to go? Blue_Tires Sep 2013 #22

Without hate, intolerance, and authoritarianism. Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #127

You mean the tone of that post, or what? AtheistCrusader Sep 2013 #48

The OP's outlook. nt Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #124

That's what I figured, but I wasn't sure. AtheistCrusader Sep 2013 #130

YES, great OP!!!! etherealtruth Sep 2013 #142

I am totally depressed this morning... kentuck Sep 2013 #2

Wasn't Bloomberg's money used to oppose the recall? NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #4

The truth cannot be told... kentuck Sep 2013 #7

Link, Please? N/T GreenStormCloud Sep 2013 #19

Just common knowledge kentuck Sep 2013 #78

If that's true, and there's no proof of it, from either side, wild bird Sep 2013 #81

IOW, just your say-so. GreenStormCloud Sep 2013 #92

Here is one link.. kentuck Sep 2013 #135

Doesn't the spending still have to be reported to DO's election board? GreenStormCloud Sep 2013 #170

I tend to agree with this Pullo Sep 2013 #28

Bloomy? otohara Sep 2013 #69

THOSE people are EVIL, EVIL, EVIL. nt rrneck Sep 2013 #3

it is safe to say sweetapogee Sep 2013 #6

Yeah, this is lost in the lamentation. Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #13

Always remember it's not about safety but CONTROL. ileus Sep 2013 #8

Says you. nt Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2013 #9

Says the OP. His animosity to democracy is plain for all to see. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #17

And your animosity towards democracy? earthside Sep 2013 #40

"The two recalled legislators were fairly and legitimately elected ..." oldhippie Sep 2013 #55

We do live in a representative democracy and rl6214 Sep 2013 #56

They were recalled for failing to represent their constituents. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #58

Walker deceived. earthside Sep 2013 #71

If their positions were as well-received as you claim they'd still be in office. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #94

So the Walker recall attempted was also misguided? hack89 Sep 2013 #64

Google the username with "Walker recall" Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #67

Seems a bit dichotomous Major Nikon Sep 2013 #29

30,000 lives lost, each and every year, all to appease some paranoid lunatics. DanTex Sep 2013 #10

How much more carnage is wrought by alcohol? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #16

Who do you think drinks more, the US or Europe? Major Nikon Sep 2013 #37

In the US alcohol fuels more carnage than guns. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #54

Even if you could somehow prove this hypothesis, why do you think that is? Major Nikon Sep 2013 #59

If you want to ban things that cause violence then stick to your principles. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #65

Ignoratio elenchi Major Nikon Sep 2013 #72

You want an AWB for ~400 deaths while ignoring the slaughter of tens of thousands Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #85

I don't think you understand Major Nikon Sep 2013 #95

What is your motive for supporting gun control? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #98

Because it unquestionably works Major Nikon Sep 2013 #103

59 proves nothing. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #105

I answered the question, you just didn't like the answer Major Nikon Sep 2013 #107

I answered that gun ownership works when objective is self-defense. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #116

"...impose restrictions on inherent human rights." hahahah Katashi_itto Sep 2013 #120

You have a picture of 2 people fighting with swords. Sword humper. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #125

Bwahaha..! Casting about much? Talk about trying to change subjects...! Katashi_itto Sep 2013 #144

You idolize a war-worshipping, misogynist racist culture where people hack each with swords Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #160

That wasn't what I asked Major Nikon Sep 2013 #139

Post removed Post removed Sep 2013 #161

Yes it is juvenile, hence the hidden post davidpdx Sep 2013 #165

Here's the funny part Major Nikon Sep 2013 #169

a while back I posted about Norway, a representative democracy with a population of gun CTyankee Sep 2013 #122

If you think you can transplant their culture to Chicago and DC, God bless ya. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #129

Exactly. It is the gun culture in the U.S., not gun safety laws, that put us in this situation. CTyankee Sep 2013 #132

They've been "gun free zones" for decades. Even Chicago is dragging its feet in its Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #134

they don't amount to much without some strong federal enforcement of gun laws... CTyankee Sep 2013 #141

Weird 'cause I live in one of those lax gun law states and we don't want your laws. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #163

"constitutional requirements"...what the hell is that? Katashi_itto Sep 2013 #145

No, really there were a couple of Supreme COurt decisions that said Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #162

Snicker...really? Guns arent banned places? Ok, go take your guns aboard a plane and say your Katashi_itto Sep 2013 #167

Red herring argument again Katashi_itto Sep 2013 #119

More Red Herring BS Katashi_itto Sep 2013 #80

Do you deny alcohol leads to drunk driving, domestic violence and sexual assault? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #82

See my 1st post. Katashi_itto Sep 2013 #83

Your 1st post is as consistent as the rest. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #88

Yours is still consistant BS. Katashi_itto Sep 2013 #89

Please, tell us your motive for banning guns. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #90

Who said anything about banning guns? Katashi_itto Sep 2013 #91

So what is your motive for prohibitive taxation? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #93

How is it prohibitive? Your free to bear arms still. Katashi_itto Sep 2013 #96

What is your motive for wanting such laws? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #97

Ask away. Lots of restictions on guns. Katashi_itto Sep 2013 #101

Why do you want lots of restrictions on guns? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #102

Surely you jest? kentuck Sep 2013 #110

I'm serious. I strongly suspect their motives. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #113

It's your motives that are suspect. Katashi_itto Sep 2013 #118

Is it really necessary to deflect from the issue? etherealtruth Sep 2013 #111

I thought the issue was controlling inanimate things to reduce needless deaths. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #112

the issue is narrow and specific ... controlling gun deaths and gun violence etherealtruth Sep 2013 #114

Thirty thousand gun deaths, half of which are deliberately self-inflicted Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #123

I am capable of multi-tasking .... I do not need to ignore one 'evil" because there are other bad th etherealtruth Sep 2013 #140

Multitasking to disarm good people while leaving the violent criminals unchecked. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #154

Yeah, that's it etherealtruth Sep 2013 #156

there are those sweetapogee Sep 2013 #23

some of us have lost someone dear to them to gun violence. CTyankee Sep 2013 #117

My motivation is my service in Vietnam. wild bird Sep 2013 #121

Gun nuttery? Abq_Sarah Sep 2013 #166

Of Course I Am- TheMastersNemesis Sep 2013 #171

The NRA rears billh58 Sep 2013 #11

Try something different, billh58. Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #12

The NRA was outspent by over 6 to 1. GreenStormCloud Sep 2013 #20

Exactly etherealtruth Sep 2013 #143

Gang, seriously Savannahmann Sep 2013 #14

You are making too much sense sarisataka Sep 2013 #35

And therein lies the rub. AtheistCrusader Sep 2013 #51

Since this democracy thing isn't panning out for you what does your book tell you to do now? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #15

more of the same sweetapogee Sep 2013 #21

The fact that we couldn't get universal background checks which the majority of Americans support liberal_at_heart Sep 2013 #24

I think a national UBC law likely would have passed congress Jenoch Sep 2013 #70

correct nt Duckhunter935 Sep 2013 #153

People support UBC until they find out the details Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #175

Or... 1awake Sep 2013 #25

The majority of people don't care all that much either way Fumesucker Sep 2013 #34

I would disagree with that, but not because I'm trying to argue. 1awake Sep 2013 #41

Beyond hope, and no peace. elleng Sep 2013 #26

When Democrats lose in heavily Democratic districts.. MicaelS Sep 2013 #27

that is why I don't belong in the democratic party anymore. The democratic party has gone too far liberal_at_heart Sep 2013 #33

The right to self-defense and the right to CHOOSE whether to own a firearm or not are liberal AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #38

Precisely. Lizzie Poppet Sep 2013 #109

Add to that the way the process was done. wild bird Sep 2013 #36

And again, you billh58 Sep 2013 #39

You again? wild bird Sep 2013 #42

Nah, I'd rather billh58 Sep 2013 #44

Have fun with that, wild bird Sep 2013 #46

Nope. billh58 Sep 2013 #50

Whatever. wild bird Sep 2013 #53

Morse was not in a "heavily Democratic district." earthside Sep 2013 #49

They "cherry-picked" Giron's heavily Dem district? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #60

Yup. They did. earthside Sep 2013 #73

It's also a danger in politics to under-read what something like this means? wild bird Sep 2013 #86

'Democrats still control both chambers of the legislature' Thanks for that good news! freshwest Sep 2013 #189

426,388 CO Springs Population - 17,845 Votes otohara Sep 2013 #62

public opinion carried the day.. the result is unfortunate. dionysus Sep 2013 #30

Add CO to the list of places fredamae Sep 2013 #31

We have a Dem Governor, state Senate,state House, both US Senators, and majority of Representatives. denverbill Sep 2013 #52

Sadly, I must admit fredamae Sep 2013 #63

As far as I know, there wasn't any voter suppression involved. denverbill Sep 2013 #76

Maybe I was wrong about the voter suppression. denverbill Sep 2013 #99

I can see where confusion fredamae Sep 2013 #104

Guns don't kill people, people kill people Snake Plissken Sep 2013 #32

Factually correct albeit meaningless to substantitive discussion and overused to the point of cliche Major Nikon Sep 2013 #43

+100! billh58 Sep 2013 #45

I wish they would shoot each other and be gone. judesedit Sep 2013 #47

Ditto TheMastersNemesis Sep 2013 #57

Most of the accidental gunshot deaths are children of these gun nuts rockbluff botanist Sep 2013 #61

Psychotics Are Not Capable Of Rational Thought. TheMastersNemesis Sep 2013 #68

Obviosly, sarcasm is beyond you. rockbluff botanist Sep 2013 #74

The Problem Is They Want Everyone Armed And NO Background Checks TheMastersNemesis Sep 2013 #172

+100 billh58 Sep 2013 #77

Agree. The lack of action after Sandy Hook says all anyone needs to know about this country. Arugula Latte Sep 2013 #66

Reasonable is relative.... John_Carter Sep 2013 #75

No, the gun nuts do a GREAT job appealing to fear and prejudice etherealtruth Sep 2013 #115

see n2doc Sep 2013 #79

She has her basic facts wrong hack89 Sep 2013 #87

so basically you support the NRA position (and the NRA sponsorship) on this? CTyankee Sep 2013 #146

No - I am saying that she made a statement that can be proven to be wrong. hack89 Sep 2013 #148

No. I asked if you support the NRA on this effort. Yes or No? CTyankee Sep 2013 #150

Of course not - I support Dems regardless of their positions on gun control hack89 Sep 2013 #155

sorry, I am too old and have seen too much to believe that the NRA has clean hands on this. CTyankee Sep 2013 #182

You just refuse to accept that "good" Dems would disagree with you on guns hack89 Sep 2013 #186

I liked it better when as you say "good" Dems would disagree with you on guns" disavowed CTyankee Sep 2013 #188

Your fixation on the NRA is distorting your perspective hack89 Sep 2013 #190

they offended a segment of their constituents who needed the power of the NRA and the limitation CTyankee Sep 2013 #191

You do know both the Dems and repukes went to court to reinstate mail in ballots? hack89 Sep 2013 #192

I have no illusions about what the NRA's agenda is. This was carefully planned. CTyankee Sep 2013 #194

The NRA cannot override the Colorado state constitution. hack89 Sep 2013 #196

aw, hack, don't change the subject...I did ask a question about how much support the winners had. CTyankee Sep 2013 #199

I suspect that for the majority of the electorate, gun right and gun control are not a high priority hack89 Sep 2013 #201

Yes, Dems do have a number of issues that they care about CTyankee Sep 2013 #202

Would democracy have won if Bloomberg's money had prevailed? hack89 Sep 2013 #203

well, if the issue is whether we should get all the money out of politics and have CTyankee Sep 2013 #204

Now that makes sense as well nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #138

Politicians take every step to assure no lunatic's gun rights are ever abridged in the indepat Sep 2013 #84

So true, billh58 Sep 2013 #100

Those 30,000 gun deaths every year is such a small price to pay to assure unfettered gun rights, indepat Sep 2013 #106

maybe you are the problem? GalaxyHunter Sep 2013 #108

Bullshit - Bullshit - Bullshit TheMastersNemesis Sep 2013 #173

thanks for that intelligent answer... GalaxyHunter Sep 2013 #205

The self-righteousness around here is approaching critical mass derby378 Sep 2013 #126

What do you call laws passed only to wage culture war? krispos42 Sep 2013 #128

notice how they can show us graphic videos of Syrian children Skittles Sep 2013 #131

It would be easier to pass reasonable gun laws ManiacJoe Sep 2013 #133

Some reasonable proposals that the gun controllers never propose: AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #137

"controllers"? Interesting use of language... CTyankee Sep 2013 #147

How about "anti-humpers" hack89 Sep 2013 #149

I have never used the term "humpers" in any respect. CTyankee Sep 2013 #151

But you have no problem with others using it, do you? hack89 Sep 2013 #157

we see this issue differently. Very differently. What I see is a public safety issue. CTyankee Sep 2013 #183

Yes, authoritarians are "controllers." Did you ever offer any proposal other than irrational AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #159

OK, if that makes Justice Ginsburg a "controller" I stand with her and the other dissenters on the CTyankee Sep 2013 #185

Your equivalent to "America, Love it or Leave it" is a right-wing meme. You have no factual basis AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #193

She dissented against the Heller decision, favored by RW republican appointed justices... CTyankee Sep 2013 #195

It's a false equavalency to equate a SC Justice who relies upon reason with your AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #198

I guess I don't understand your lexicon. What do YOU mean by "controller"? CTyankee Sep 2013 #200

You know when it will start to turn? nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #136

I agree. We've sold our soul to the fucking NRA and their gopiscrap Sep 2013 #152

I collective soul has been tainted by compromises with the NRA lunatics etherealtruth Sep 2013 #158

Is it conceivable to you that some people in good faith disagree about the laws' effectiveness? Recursion Sep 2013 #164

Gun insurance. Own whatever you want, but be responsible or lose your rights by your own behavior. Tigress DEM Sep 2013 #174

again with the insurance thing Duckhunter935 Sep 2013 #178

My support of gun insurance is that is changes the dialog to demonstrating responsible behavior. Tigress DEM Sep 2013 #179

why not have a dialog Duckhunter935 Sep 2013 #181

I'd be totally FOR that conversation. Tigress DEM Sep 2013 #187

Any gun owner with a homeowners policy already has gun insurance - lynne Sep 2013 #197

But you don't have to prove any firearms competence with homeowners insurance. Tigress DEM Sep 2013 #206

Career politicians have their own kind of hope, hope to represent you another day. lonestarnot Sep 2013 #168

We are a country ran by lobbyists! B Calm Sep 2013 #176

IMHO.. sendero Sep 2013 #177

I think your last paragraph is untrue and fear mongering of the type that you condemn. aikoaiko Sep 2013 #180

I couldn't agree more... 99Forever Sep 2013 #184