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[Luminous Animal]

4. Michael Ratner, Center for Constitutional Rights, on Democracy Now (rush transcript)

http://www.democracynow.org/2012/2/29/leaked_stratfor_email_suggests_secret_us

AMY GOODMAN: Now, Julian Assange is not a U.S. citizen. How is he possibly indicted for treason?

MICHAEL RATNER: You know, I think—it’s not treason. It’s the Espionage Act. And in fact, one thing you just said, treason is under the Constitution. It’s adhering to your enemy, particularly during time of war. And in fact, the Espionage Act can be looked at as a way to get around the strict requirements of treason that are in the U.S. Constitution.

In fact, I think there’s a serious question whether someone like Julian Assange, who is not a U.S. citizen, can be indicted under the Espionage Act. What duty does Julian Assange owe the United States vis-à-vis the Espionage Act? If I, tomorrow, surface documents that had to do with the Soviet Union, or Russia, rather, and what it’s doing in Chechnya, that were classified, could Russia actually get my extradition from the United States because I put out classified documents belonging to Russia? I don’t think so. But that would be—if they actually have an indictment and if they go after Julian Assange in the way that so far they’ve indicated they want to, that will certainly be an important issue. What duty did Julian Assange owe to the United States?

AMY GOODMAN: Is Stratfor breaking the law? How is Stratfor selling intelligence legal, when WikiLeaks giving it away for free is not?

MICHAEL RATNER: Well, certainly, if Stratfor is giving away classified material, if it’s actually getting information from people within the government that is classified, if it’s actually paying anybody within the government, then yes, Stratfor, by selling it, would be considered to be violating the law—and particularly if you look and compare Stratfor to WikiLeaks. WikiLeaks is journalism. WikiLeaks is putting it out there. Stratfor is selling it privately. They’re not journalists. So they don’t have a journalist’s defense here.

I mean, the important thing to understand about WikiLeaks and Julian Assange is this is, I think, perhaps the first time, if this indictment is true, that the United States has actually indicted a journalist for going—for revealing material given to him—apparently, allegedly given to him—by someone who had access to classified material. But it’s the first time that I know of where actual documents have been the subject of such a criminal indictment.