General Discussion

totodeinhere

(13,688 posts)

209. Why can't we have both freedom of speech AND health care like they do in

Fri Sep 13, 2013, 03:30 PM

Sep 2013

Canada and Western Europe? Yes, I know the Republicans and Bluedog Democrats would block single payer. But as long as we them in Congress then we are not very high up on the exceptionalism list.

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The knee-jerk dismissal (by some) of Putin's remarks is so drearily typical of the 'Ugly American' [View all] markpkessinger Sep 2013 OP

I think it's time to roll the credits on this whole "American Exceptionalism" thingy Taverner Sep 2013 #1

Yup I agree gopiscrap Sep 2013 #2

I heard the next OpEd will be written by Kim Jong Un trumad Sep 2013 #3

For real. nt onehandle Sep 2013 #6

It's like Charles Manson telling us we should all love one another. zappaman Sep 2013 #113

We should love one another and it doesn't matter if Charlie or Jesus said it. 1-Old-Man Sep 2013 #115

It's called being a fucking hypocrite. zappaman Sep 2013 #118

It's also fair to point out that the message is right no matter who said it. n/t totodeinhere Sep 2013 #124

Putin's message is not right. zappaman Sep 2013 #125

So you support the concept of American exceptionalism? totodeinhere Sep 2013 #131

OK, point by point pick them out. 1-Old-Man Sep 2013 #150

Actually if the message is right its unfair to denigrate it with pointless assertions 1-Old-Man Sep 2013 #149

I agree. He wouldn't stop being Charlie Manson, but he would still be right. n/t Raksha Sep 2013 #126

if you're buying what putin is selling, warrior1 Sep 2013 #4

Did you actually read the OP, or are you reacting to the headline? markpkessinger Sep 2013 #10

I understand Hitler loved milk Trajan Sep 2013 #110

Um; he's saying the exact opposite robbob Sep 2013 #120

Hitler was against smoking, and for economical cars with good mpg markiv Sep 2013 #134

that's personality-ism markiv Sep 2013 #16

Personality-ism = red herring argument, "kill the messenger," etc. Raksha Sep 2013 #122

'Until, I could care less what he has to say' markiv Sep 2013 #24

McCain and Boehner agree with you Capt. Obvious Sep 2013 #46

This message was self-deleted by its author totodeinhere Sep 2013 #127

McCain was pushing for an even more aggressive military action than the one the President opposed markpkessinger Sep 2013 #173

McCain: Putin�s Op-Ed Insults Americans� Intelligence Capt. Obvious Sep 2013 #198

I'm gay. sibelian Sep 2013 #68

You should write old Vlad a letter... bunnies Sep 2013 #107

I am gay also . . .` markpkessinger Sep 2013 #170

What a stupid comment mindwalker_i Sep 2013 #100

Yep. There is a faction of duers who still buy into the USA! USA! USA! quinnox Sep 2013 #5

They serve to counterbalance the "AmeriKKKa is the most destructive empire in history" crowd. Throd Sep 2013 #44

Is there really something so leftynyc Sep 2013 #74

Certainly seems that way, doesnt it. bunnies Sep 2013 #109

What does the rejection of American exceptionalism have to do with loving our country? Raksha Sep 2013 #137

I guess I wasn't raised that way leftynyc Sep 2013 #140

one can have pride heaven05 Sep 2013 #204

Nailed It! bvar22 Sep 2013 #205

Jingoistic, mindless nationalism: Raksha Sep 2013 #133

I seriously have no idea what leftynyc Sep 2013 #142

Sorry - I guess my use of "jingoism" is a bit dated, and dates me. Raksha Sep 2013 #148

I should have been more clear leftynyc Sep 2013 #151

I can't speak for anyone but myself, obviously, but is there some reason we can't do both? Raksha Sep 2013 #159

I'm so with you on the leftynyc Sep 2013 #196

Stalin's ghost appears to Putin in a dream, and Putin asks for his help running the country. snooper2 Sep 2013 #7

Good joke Capt. Obvious Sep 2013 #49

Yup, pro-Putin propaganda is good. ProSense Sep 2013 #8

Another person who posted in response to my headline, without reading the OP markpkessinger Sep 2013 #12

The op-ed is pro-Putin propaganda ProSense Sep 2013 #27

Some of it is no doubt self-serving BS . . . markpkessinger Sep 2013 #32

Right, and everyone should have jump up and applauded "self-serving BS" ProSense Sep 2013 #41

What next...why don't we listen to the "substance" of what Rand Paul says? VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #78

Why not? If he is against NSA spying on Americans, does that mean I have to be for it? eridani Sep 2013 #195

Still have no idea why the Op at your link is relevant to anything! Vinnie From Indy Sep 2013 #25

considering that you are the ultimate propagandist noiretextatique Sep 2013 #43

Putin is the Professor, Obama is Gilligan markiv Sep 2013 #9

Yea... The "Professor" who really puts Teh Gays in their place farmbo Sep 2013 #112

or, Putin = Marcia, Obama = Jan markiv Sep 2013 #130

That Mussolini guy wasn't so bad..... Fastcars Sep 2013 #11

And the U.S. is all sweetness and light n/t markpkessinger Sep 2013 #15

Putin is not a "critic" BeyondGeography Sep 2013 #13

Fine . . . markpkessinger Sep 2013 #19

Blaming the gas attack on the rebels and saying their next target is Israel. nt geek tragedy Sep 2013 #39

+1 JustAnotherGen Sep 2013 #77

Please see my clarification at #165 below . . . markpkessinger Sep 2013 #171

Balderdash. geek tragedy Sep 2013 #175

My problem with Putin's piece in the NYT today cali Sep 2013 #14

On that point I agree with you . . . markpkessinger Sep 2013 #21

then there's that "one point" you were asking for... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #81

You are attributing a phrase to me that I never used . . . markpkessinger Sep 2013 #193

You can hate the messenger...Putin is indeed a putz...but.. joeybee12 Sep 2013 #17

That is the point precisely! n/t markpkessinger Sep 2013 #23

worst of all, it's Fascism that is parasitic markiv Sep 2013 #31

Great point, and often overlooked. Raksha Sep 2013 #162

Yup 2naSalit Sep 2013 #146

Simple minds seek simple answers! Vinnie From Indy Sep 2013 #18

Although, the "criticize America first" & "America is always wrong" crowds are pretty tiresome too. FSogol Sep 2013 #20

You can't be serious . . .. markpkessinger Sep 2013 #22

True, as a nation, but individuals? Just look around you. n/t FSogol Sep 2013 #26

Substituting the citizenry for the nation itself when the nation's actions are criticised sibelian Sep 2013 #69

Rhetoric! I was talking about constant criticism of the nation. n/t FSogol Sep 2013 #71

NSA spying and Syria warmongering in the space of one month markiv Sep 2013 #135

'loath to engage in any kind of honest self-examination ' markiv Sep 2013 #29

sounds like faux news noiretextatique Sep 2013 #50

Rush Limbaugh is really offended by the OpEd. JohnnyLib2 Sep 2013 #28

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2013 #30

and our country spys on/gives it's citizen's jobs/livelyhoods away wholesale markiv Sep 2013 #37

You think Putin DOESN'T Do that? VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #84

i was talking what i know about our country, not what i dont know about theirs markiv Sep 2013 #91

Putin was KGB treestar Sep 2013 #157

and Bush Sr was CIA markiv Sep 2013 #160

We just had a hunger strike in California nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #73

Putin will fix a nice cup of radioactive tea for his detractors... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #85

For all of our faults, I believe we are an exceptional nation. OregonBlue Sep 2013 #33

Huh. Would you say God favors us, in some way? quinnox Sep 2013 #40

Who said anything about god? I just believe we are an exceptional country. I travel a lot for my OregonBlue Sep 2013 #51

exceptional...how? noiretextatique Sep 2013 #45

The very fact that we are even on this board says a lot. There are many places in the world where OregonBlue Sep 2013 #62

But we are not exceptional nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #70

thank you for answering noiretextatique Sep 2013 #94

I wish I could travel abroad more often to be honest nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #95

Thanks OregonBlue.. Glad your son is getting help. Cha Sep 2013 #174

There are many places where this discussion would not be permitted . . . markpkessinger Sep 2013 #192

I'll take the word of my President over warrior1 Sep 2013 #34

Obama just defended NSA spying and tried to involve us in another ME war markiv Sep 2013 #42

but...he's evil noiretextatique Sep 2013 #55

Putin = professor, Obama = Gilligan markiv Sep 2013 #58

You can make that moronic analogy leftynyc Sep 2013 #79

Putin=Mr. Roper , Obama Jack Tripper n/t Tveil Sep 2013 #80

Dmitry Medvedev = Mr. Firley Capt. Obvious Sep 2013 #97

Your post = the ship wreck phleshdef Sep 2013 #89

That is such BS. WCLinolVir Sep 2013 #93

sarcasm, newbie noiretextatique Sep 2013 #102

I'm in agreement with your replies...and on this one in snappyturtle Sep 2013 #66

and our recent public 2naSalit Sep 2013 #152

An evil man like Putin nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #65

I don't think you'll find many of us here think that "we inhabit some lofty moral plane (plain?). pampango Sep 2013 #35

You believe that the rebels were responsible for the gas attack and that their geek tragedy Sep 2013 #36

I don't know who was responsible . . . markpkessinger Sep 2013 #48

The major point of his essay was Syria, and his dishonest blaming geek tragedy Sep 2013 #56

do you know for sure who did the gassing? noiretextatique Sep 2013 #57

Every credible analysis points at the Syrian government. geek tragedy Sep 2013 #61

credible analysts are wrong on occasion noiretextatique Sep 2013 #83

Actually, all the credible analysts said Bush was full of shit. geek tragedy Sep 2013 #88

who benefits? noiretextatique Sep 2013 #98

"cui bono" is speculation, not evidence. geek tragedy Sep 2013 #99

no conclusive evidence yet, is there? noiretextatique Sep 2013 #103

The rockets used to deliver the sarin are in the government's arsenal, not the rebels' nt geek tragedy Sep 2013 #104

ok nt noiretextatique Sep 2013 #105

If you depend on the US Intelligence Agencies bvar22 Sep 2013 #119

You mean like this credible analysis? Raksha Sep 2013 #145

Not a credible analysis--essentially rumor-mongering by people geek tragedy Sep 2013 #147

Human Rights Watch, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren and others all know Assad's forces did it. pampango Sep 2013 #75

responsibility for the chemical attack is not the only issue here noiretextatique Sep 2013 #82

I agree. As I said, "But with respect to Syria, responsibility for the chemical attack is not the pampango Sep 2013 #123

i'm afraid of that noiretextatique Sep 2013 #132

Remember when the USA blasted the CHEMICAL AGENT ORANGE on Vietman. Sequoia Sep 2013 #128

His 'concern' about interference in other countries without UN approval is hypocritical muriel_volestrangler Sep 2013 #38

so, he's no different than our leaders noiretextatique Sep 2013 #47

No, I would say he's more violent muriel_volestrangler Sep 2013 #54

Incorrect. Those rebels moved to expand Georgian territory into S Ossetia first Deny and Shred Sep 2013 #206

South Ossetia in in Georgia, not Russia muriel_volestrangler Sep 2013 #207

The independent republic was formed in 2008, with US help. Deny and Shred Sep 2013 #208

Again, South Ossetia is in Georgia, as that article notes muriel_volestrangler Sep 2013 #210

Both were disputed territories Deny and Shred Sep 2013 #211

You said "Those rebels moved to expand Georgian territory into S Ossetia first" muriel_volestrangler Sep 2013 #212

Right, disputed. 'rebels ... wanting independence.' Deny and Shred Sep 2013 #213

He said there was no proof Assad released chemical weapons BainsBane Sep 2013 #52

I don't know any rah! rah! HappyMe Sep 2013 #53

The Cultists make every issue about personalities kenny blankenship Sep 2013 #59

I agree, and even if he wrote this at 4th grade level, nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #60

Wow, I think you nailed it with this one! quinnox Sep 2013 #63

Well, thank you nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #67

+1 leftstreet Sep 2013 #86

Thank you alcina Sep 2013 #138

You welcome nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #139

+1 Thank you n/t Catherina Sep 2013 #177

If Pat Robertson said he was in favor of gay rights, would you sing his praises? randome Sep 2013 #64

Characterizing my post as "singing Putin's praises" is grossly dishonest . . . markpkessinger Sep 2013 #169

The replies in the thread highlight your point Hydra Sep 2013 #72

Yes, they do nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #153

American Exceptionalism is like cancer. dgibby Sep 2013 #76

What planet do you live on? WCLinolVir Sep 2013 #87

If theres some criticism we need to hear, it needs to come from a credible messenger. phleshdef Sep 2013 #90

The thing is, I'm not sure a messenger exists who would be deemed sufficiently credible . . . markpkessinger Sep 2013 #191

American exceptionalism. Rex Sep 2013 #92

Sorry. We don't need to be lectured to by the Kremlin. n/t pnwmom Sep 2013 #96

I haven't read Putin's remarks, JoeyT Sep 2013 #101

Putin is not hypocrite Kuroneko Sep 2013 #106

don't let assad paint a picture of putin in panties or sing a song putin hates or he's toast. Sunlei Sep 2013 #108

Good post. wouldsman Sep 2013 #111

I agree with you and the OP. ocpagu Sep 2013 #116

+1. And how sad that is n/t Catherina Sep 2013 #179

That's the truth. nt laundry_queen Sep 2013 #194

'tis BlancheSplanchnik Sep 2013 #114

America. Where "lofty moral plane" = Drone. n/t jtuck004 Sep 2013 #117

The talking point of the GOP is to be nauseated.... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2013 #121

Boehner says he is insulted by Putin's remarks. totodeinhere Sep 2013 #129

Like many here, the Speaker belongs at the children's table nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #136

That's a childish remark itself muriel_volestrangler Sep 2013 #163

I don't dosmiss all of Putin's claims, I dismiss Putin as a valid messenger. DrewFlorida Sep 2013 #141

With you, but the adults are having a fruitful nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #144

As opposed to knee-jerk dismissals of anything the U.S. President says as a bunch of lies. CakeGrrl Sep 2013 #143

"Ugly American" here. FUck Putin, and all who celebrate him. It's become quite creepy, the.... Tarheel_Dem Sep 2013 #154

Are we really so exceptional? totodeinhere Sep 2013 #156

All of that fades before treestar Sep 2013 #158

We should have both single payer health care and freedom of speech and association. totodeinhere Sep 2013 #161

Freedom of speech comes first treestar Sep 2013 #199

Why can't we have both freedom of speech AND health care like they do in totodeinhere Sep 2013 #209

Localities ban books in the US and Boston was the leader of book banning for years Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #185

That is blatantly unconstitutional treestar Sep 2013 #200

Ask me that ridiculous question when you have to dodge daily car bombings, and can't find bread. Tarheel_Dem Sep 2013 #182

Of course we are not the worst country on the planet. Far from it. But when we talk about totodeinhere Sep 2013 #183

And the comparison is still....#1 economy, and last remaining Super Power, ALL DAY LONG!!! Tarheel_Dem Sep 2013 #184

#1 economy for the 1%. That doesn't help most of us one bit. The average American's totodeinhere Sep 2013 #186

Not a fan of the ridiculous wealth gap, but that's where Occupy was being useful, except they.... Tarheel_Dem Sep 2013 #188

"Latin America is but a cyst on the anus of the world." Tarheel Dem Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #187

Some DUers come from Russia. Some come from North Korea. Some come from Iran. Tarheel_Dem Sep 2013 #189

We do when it comes to the First Amendment treestar Sep 2013 #155

I need to clarify something . . . markpkessinger Sep 2013 #164

Mark to the last point, it would also disqualify allies nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #165

Point taken! markpkessinger Sep 2013 #167

Putin risked his credibility by stating the opposition is behind the chemical attack. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2013 #172

Putin's primary argument in the Op-Ed is . . . markpkessinger Sep 2013 #176

The use of chemical weapons is a war crime, regardless of who used them DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2013 #178

It is the 10th incident. Why now? nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #181

No, ProSense Sep 2013 #168

When your global approval level is in the teens, as Putin's is, people tend to dismiss anything you stevenleser Sep 2013 #202

Stating Americans are more defensive of attacks on their national character is a hilariously blind f Pretzel_Warrior Sep 2013 #166

They're missing the point by several miles -- perhaps intentionally. DirkGently Sep 2013 #180

Exactly! n/t markpkessinger Sep 2013 #190

You don't understand! It's simply not possible for anyone to be right on one subject-- eridani Sep 2013 #197

Putin and his words are held in very low regard globally. His global approval level is in the teens stevenleser Sep 2013 #201

Putin (Russia) is one of the few Allies the Assad Regime has. Progressive dog Sep 2013 #203