General Discussion

BumRushDaShow

(166,082 posts)

95. "The real big picture is that we are not as powerful as we think we are"

Sun Sep 15, 2013, 02:34 PM

Sep 2013

Exactly.

But I disagree about this sort of thing being "seat of pants". In the world of negotiations (and I have taken many many courses in it and participated in many negotiating sessions over the past 30 years), you aim for "win-win". That's not "seat of pants". It's quite the opposite and requires alot of behind the scenes work on the final presentation because all sides have parties who are NOT right there in the room, and those are the folks who need to be convinced that they can go home "satisfied" with the agreement.

For folks to not acknowledge a "fake" as part of an arsenal (pun not intended) of "tools" as a means to an end, is sad. However on the real world stage, if you are going to do such a strategy, you need to be able to have everything in place to back it up if it doesn't work.

The one thing regarding bases is that many of them HAVE closed. The bigger issue is to what to do with those folks when the come home and that is where we have the GOP blocking every means for creating jobs other than in the MIC. And that is why we need the electorate to get those folks removed from office so we can bring back manufacturing and the public sector.

Talking nonsense about "pom poms" is not what is needed to get the electorate out in off-year elections and to participate in elections in general. Not just in Presidential election years, but EVERY year.

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to those giving Obama full credit for disarming Syria without violence, I would remind you... [View all] magical thyme Sep 2013 OP

disarmed? i'll bet he's still fighting and 'killing his own people' the good old fashioned way. KG Sep 2013 #1

The day the agreement was signed, Assad bombed Damascus. n/t n2doc Sep 2013 #78

Which is what the Syrians thought also, which is why they were ready to make a deal. DCBob Sep 2013 #2

the attack would have happened by labor day if the UK hadn't backed out magical thyme Sep 2013 #5

Yeah, but there would not have been a deal unless it was clear we were serious. DCBob Sep 2013 #8

we were serious. I wrote all my congress people about my red line. and I meant it. magical thyme Sep 2013 #12

So "go ahead Assad...use all the chemical weapons you like" ...."we won't interfere at all!" VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #27

why are you attributing nonexistant quotes to my post? magical thyme Sep 2013 #32

quoting to show that I am not saying it... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #34

sorry, but I never even implied such a thing. magical thyme Sep 2013 #106

No it's NOT all in my head....you just cannot accept the conclusions of your policy... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #111

none of those would have resulted in Assad freely giving up his chemical weapons... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #36

Nonviolent? You wouldn't even know about Syrian CW if we hadn't fueled regime change & civil war. leveymg Sep 2013 #46

Assad wouldn't even admit that he had them... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #47

They would be irrelevant (except to Israel) had there not been rebels closing in on central Damascus leveymg Sep 2013 #48

Funny how these DU experts on Syria never posted anything about the country Generic Other Sep 2013 #51

I'm getting the feeling this is just an interlude before we pivot toward Iran. leveymg Sep 2013 #55

I gauge the war talk by observing my magazine subscriptions Generic Other Sep 2013 #57

The same poster told me to apologize to Kerry for something I never said. neverforget Sep 2013 #86

I am sure John Kerry is waiting up nights for your call,.... Vanje Sep 2013 #88

Being accused of saying something that you have not done is an asshole thing neverforget Sep 2013 #97

You don't know what was in the plan to disarm Syrians MCs, give us a break. Every idea was gone lumpy Sep 2013 #114

It's sad that you have to even.... dennis4868 Sep 2013 #161

What you say is true. former9thward Sep 2013 #3

I used the word "disarm" pretty loosely to fit in the headline...I meant disarm of chemical weapons magical thyme Sep 2013 #10

so instead of take the chance to move us even closer to 100% removal of chemical weapons.... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #58

We are already a hypocrite. former9thward Sep 2013 #63

According to the article it has not been fully confirmed that the Syrian rebels used chemical lumpy Sep 2013 #121

I didn't say they have done nothing. former9thward Sep 2013 #147

Let's just say that a checked swing that results in the equivalent of a bunt single looks like... stevenleser Sep 2013 #4

Shhhhhh, it was all part of the plan LittleBlue Sep 2013 #6

Who really gives a rat's ass about Cameron's "embarrassment"? VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #28

He was Obama's biggest foreign supporter on this LittleBlue Sep 2013 #41

Sooo? How do you know Cameron wasn't a sacrifice? VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #44

Oh dear LittleBlue Sep 2013 #45

Gad, you're stuck in a chess game while a new game is on. lumpy Sep 2013 #126

Chess game......so old hat lumpy Sep 2013 #124

Absolutely, magical thyme. And, I think that this was a classic case of Th1onein Sep 2013 #7

Oh, pleeeeze, the civil war was going on well before Snowden was an thought in the NSA. Don't Thinkingabout Sep 2013 #11

Oh boy, I've heard it all. LOL lumpy Sep 2013 #130

We do not know if Putin and Obama discussed during the G20 Summit Meeting. Some wants to claim the Thinkingabout Sep 2013 #9

It's ODS to even have this thread treestar Sep 2013 #75

Pom Pom! Vanje Sep 2013 #90

I don't know what's wrong with giving a Democratic President treestar Sep 2013 #91

Being positive is a fine thing. Vanje Sep 2013 #94

It's not disagreement treestar Sep 2013 #98

Yep dennis4868 Sep 2013 #165

You have plenty of rights. n/t QC Sep 2013 #103

That's the way I remember it plus the UN inspectors were ordered to get out of Syria... Little Star Sep 2013 #13

Must. Not. Give. President. Credit. Skinner Sep 2013 #14

He gets partial credit. We *made* him do it. nt magical thyme Sep 2013 #15

Who is "we"? this is ODS in its finest form Thinkingabout Sep 2013 #100

we the people who wrote to congress 100:1 against a military strike, per to several congressmen magical thyme Sep 2013 #105

This is propaganda, you are feeding out of GOP feed trough. Do you think Obama did not Thinkingabout Sep 2013 #117

um, I'm fully capable of writing more than 1 email to my representatives. And since when is magical thyme Sep 2013 #153

Keep playing the 1% game, you will find you are not winning and will not win while playing Thinkingabout Sep 2013 #160

the 1% game is to attack Syria as the road to attacking Iran magical thyme Sep 2013 #163

You need to look at the big picture and not the parts which is flashy and catches your eye. If the Thinkingabout Sep 2013 #168

1. I consider war very much part of the big picture. 2. I can multitask. Get it? magical thyme Sep 2013 #170

Save your stamps on the Summers nomination. Vanje Sep 2013 #164

Just saw it! WOO - FREAKIN' - HOO!!!!!!!!!! magical thyme Sep 2013 #167

Is this "ODS" the latest BOG talking point? RetroLounge Sep 2013 #113

what they do not understand is Skittles Sep 2013 #123

That's "magical" thinking .. you didn't "make" President Obama do Cha Sep 2013 #133

Obama himself said that we must make him do...whatever. magical thyme Sep 2013 #151

The thing is President Obama wanted Assad to give up his chem weapons.. Cha Sep 2013 #155

I don't question that Obama put force on the table. magical thyme Sep 2013 #162

You have the timeline down Caretha Sep 2013 #187

I actually think Skinner's post had merit. He reads DU. nm Cha Sep 2013 #188

Is there a Caretha Sep 2013 #190

Its a good thing Vanje Sep 2013 #169

Even an ardent Obama supporter would have to admit there was a heaping dose of this: Marr Sep 2013 #17

Wrong. nt BumRushDaShow Sep 2013 #29

So you think. lumpy Sep 2013 #135

Excellent cartoon. nt woo me with science Sep 2013 #140

Thank you Skinner. nt BumRushDaShow Sep 2013 #18

Ever. n/t Scurrilous Sep 2013 #19

Welcome to DU3...nt SidDithers Sep 2013 #20

Bwahahaha!!! +1000 JoePhilly Sep 2013 #22

Cause we all know he is god nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #26

Cause we all know that he is not the devil BumRushDaShow Sep 2013 #31

This *was* classic seat of pants diplomacy nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #35

In the less ProSense Sep 2013 #38

See these links about Kerry's history in Syria and with Assad BumRushDaShow Sep 2013 #52

I am sorry nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #56

Talking about "pom poms" BumRushDaShow Sep 2013 #66

The real big picture is that we are not as powerful as we think we are nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #82

"The real big picture is that we are not as powerful as we think we are" BumRushDaShow Sep 2013 #95

Getting electorate out nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #99

"voters turn against the two party offerings and go third party. " BumRushDaShow Sep 2013 #101

People are starting to speak granger revolt nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #107

I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #129

You ProSense Sep 2013 #69

Assad didn't - it's assumable he did not want to give up his treestar Sep 2013 #77

Yes well stated lumpy Sep 2013 #137

that's what it takes to get any credit for what you do? treestar Sep 2013 #76

Must not...that would screw up their narrative that he is an "evil evil man" VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #30

I noticed you used quotes there. Marr Sep 2013 #59

sometimes when you use quotes...it means someone else is saying it...not the person making the VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #60

Authors of fiction use quotes when writing dialog. Vanje Sep 2013 #62

the poster was engaging the way she wanted... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #131

for anything malaise Sep 2013 #39

Or Must Claim President Hires, Trains, Arms Al Qaeda, Aids & Comforts Enemy. nt DevonRex Sep 2013 #67

So, this is Obama Underground after all? RetroLounge Sep 2013 #194

"Had the UK voted for a military strike back on Aug. 30, the attack would have already taken place." ProSense Sep 2013 #16

Great post and 100000000000% true. demgrrrll Sep 2013 #21

Perfect response! JoePhilly Sep 2013 #24

He announced he'd seek congressional approval on Aug. 31, *after* the UK backed out unexpectedly magical thyme Sep 2013 #40

And like I said, ProSense Sep 2013 #42

+1 and that's why it is ODS, not a principled disagreement. nt treestar Sep 2013 #81

There are so many Assad protectors and Putin lovers around.. the anti-Obamas! Cha Sep 2013 #136

Hair-on-fire DU OPs stopped Obama from starting WWIII!!!!!! JoePhilly Sep 2013 #23

they really do think they are THAT influential don't they? VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #33

That's how they maintain their personal sense of win-win JoePhilly Sep 2013 #50

^^^THIS!^^^ BumRushDaShow Sep 2013 #54

They also made Obama end DADT. He was NEVER going to end it ... JoePhilly Sep 2013 #199

... Summer Hathaway Sep 2013 #89

Thread Killer. I would say you're the thread winner but why claim such a crappy prize? Number23 Sep 2013 #120

Hear hear! great white snark Sep 2013 #175

no. the people who wrote to and called their representatives 100:1 against military action magical thyme Sep 2013 #49

Of course people did BumRushDaShow Sep 2013 #64

did you even read the post I was replying to? magical thyme Sep 2013 #104

Did you even consider what the poster was trying to say? BumRushDaShow Sep 2013 #173

the poster said I wrote that DUers stopped the war by posting on DU. magical thyme Sep 2013 #174

No, the poster wrote about "OPs" BumRushDaShow Sep 2013 #182

"Hair-on-fire DU OPs stopped Obama from starting WWIII!!!!!!" magical thyme Sep 2013 #189

LOL!!! DevonRex Sep 2013 #68

Obama reads DU daily to see what he should do treestar Sep 2013 #83

I never suggested DU stopped Obama magical thyme Sep 2013 #108

I don't see anyone thoughtfully giving him "full credit" bhikkhu Sep 2013 #25

errrrr...so much conjecture Sheepshank Sep 2013 #37

People can believe a conspiracy of nations demwing Sep 2013 #43

Do these skills to see the future extend to the lottery numbers? mythology Sep 2013 #53

,,,,,,,,,,,,, Vanje Sep 2013 #61

That comes ProSense Sep 2013 #65

+infinity BumRushDaShow Sep 2013 #70

Good explanation treestar Sep 2013 #85

President Obama's Lucky Score Card.. so far. Cha Sep 2013 #141

DU never disappoints iandhr Sep 2013 #71

There would have never been a diplomatic deal... iandhr Sep 2013 #72

I don't see why it's hard for Democrats to give credit to Democrats treestar Sep 2013 #73

There's reality, and then there's "Obama is superman" spin. Skip Intro Sep 2013 #74

President Obama isn't "superman." Did he achieve his objective with Syria? n/t ProSense Sep 2013 #80

oh FFS the POTUS listened to the will of the American people azurnoir Sep 2013 #96

Spare me the outrage. ProSense Sep 2013 #102

No outrage just facts azurnoir Sep 2013 #186

keep hating heaven05 Sep 2013 #79

Exactly. obxhead Sep 2013 #84

THANK YOU Skittles Sep 2013 #87

"..it may be that they had planned that from day 1, but if you believe that..." cheapdate Sep 2013 #92

okay, great. how does the vote in parliament play into this? frylock Sep 2013 #109

Most likely as the OP suggested it would have. cheapdate Sep 2013 #115

so then, obviously, this whole episode wasn't scripted as is being pushed by the bog. frylock Sep 2013 #116

Maybe so maybe not. Impossible to say for certain. Likely not, as I said, but possibly so. cheapdate Sep 2013 #118

I keep reading this on DU Summer Hathaway Sep 2013 #93

early reporting... magical thyme Sep 2013 #138

I asked for proof Summer Hathaway Sep 2013 #144

"There was no debate at the Saturday meeting that a military response is necessary." magical thyme Sep 2013 #148

This proves nothing of what you stated. Summer Hathaway Sep 2013 #152

I think if the UK had voted yes, we'd have attacked by now. magical thyme Sep 2013 #156

So now you 'think' if the UK Summer Hathaway Sep 2013 #171

opinion was always implied. magical thyme Sep 2013 #172

"to those giving Obama full credit for disarming Syria without violence ... Summer Hathaway Sep 2013 #179

score one for the grammar police. magical thyme Sep 2013 #181

Stating something as a fact Summer Hathaway Sep 2013 #183

Taking a different view polynomial Sep 2013 #110

This is preposterous, it would've taken weeks to move military assets. joshcryer Sep 2013 #112

destroyers for cruise missile attack were moved into place very early on. magical thyme Sep 2013 #143

nothing happens without Nimitz joshcryer Sep 2013 #157

We did all this and more ten years ago. mattclearing Sep 2013 #119

I distinctly remember my shock 10 years ago when 80% of Americans favored attacking Iraq magical thyme Sep 2013 #145

You can't have it both ways. LaydeeBug Sep 2013 #122

it was both the disdain of the Brits and the American people Skittles Sep 2013 #125

It was the superb playing of the hand he was dealt by this Administration, led by the PRESIDENT LaydeeBug Sep 2013 #127

uh huh Skittles Sep 2013 #128

you know it LaydeeBug Sep 2013 #132

Do you seriously believe Summer Hathaway Sep 2013 #196

Um, after the UK backed out, Obama said he would go it alone magical thyme Sep 2013 #150

I see where you got the word MAGICAL from Skittles Sep 2013 #197

It doesn't matter. kentuck Sep 2013 #134

Which proves that some leadership always has preplanned options up it's sleeve. lumpy Sep 2013 #149

Syria's chemical weapons fadedrose Sep 2013 #139

I think your analysis is solid, faderose. Cha Sep 2013 #146

Thank you, but I forgot the photo of the Pres & Putin fadedrose Sep 2013 #195

That jump starts the imagination.. Cha Sep 2013 #198

K&R Thank you. woo me with science Sep 2013 #142

You could have shortened this Summer Hathaway Sep 2013 #154

Shorter still: NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #158

... Summer Hathaway Sep 2013 #191

+100 JoePhilly Sep 2013 #200

I know this is an anti Obama website dennis4868 Sep 2013 #159

This is an Obama hate site? Th1onein Sep 2013 #178

All you have to do is look at the front page. nt BumRushDaShow Sep 2013 #184

You never loved Obama bigwillq Sep 2013 #166

Or facts. great white snark Sep 2013 #177

. ProSense Sep 2013 #180

.... bigwillq Sep 2013 #185

Is that right, now? Th1onein Sep 2013 #193

Pure speculation. No one except Obama and Kerry actually know what went on or what the plans OregonBlue Sep 2013 #176

Um, no. gulliver Sep 2013 #192

Also, I don't distinguish customerserviceguy Sep 2013 #201