Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

stupidicus

(2,570 posts)
39. advisors/advising and training/materials aren't missile, etc strikes
Sun Sep 15, 2013, 07:34 PM
Sep 2013

and helping some group by providing them with such is not "attacking" militarily the enemy we're attempting to undermine.

it's pretty sad when you have to explain the diff between violent and non-violent involvement to someone that thinks they have a tenable argument that equates the two. While providing arms is illegal under international law, it ain't "the same" as the attacks you were hoping for, being a likely supporter of that "credible threat" thing, and that's the diff that shows no incongruity between what those congress critters voted for before and what they support now..

Of course they were trying to promote and support a regime change. Gee what's next, that's a war crime exactly like militarily attacking another country (war of aggression) without a UNSC res authorizing it?

Hardly, and you have no foundation for such a thing, and indeed, the case law on the matter shows the opposite.

Arming Syrian Rebels: Lethal Assistance and International Law
By Ashley Deeks
Wednesday, May 1, 2013 at 10:00 AM

On the Sunday talk shows, various members of Congress exhorted the United States to increase its assistance to the Syrian rebels, whether by providing them with additional (lethal) equipment, or by establishing a no-fly zone, or by entering Syria to secure its chemical weapons caches. Last night the Post reported that the Executive Branch is seriously weighing whether to arm the rebels. I wrote here about some of the international legal hurdles that the U.S. would confront in evaluating whether to use force directly in Syria. (A no-fly zone, which some have advocated, would fall into the “use of force” category.) But even the provision of lethal equipment to the Syrian rebels has implications in international law.

In Nicaragua v. United States, the International Court of Justice evaluated alleged U.S. assistance to the contra rebels, who were operating in and against Nicaragua. The Court concluded that the U.S. provision of arms and training to rebels “can certainly be said to involve the threat or use of force against Nicaragua.” This arming and training also violated the international legal principle of non-intervention. At the same time, the Court concluded that the provision of arms and financial and logistical support did not constitute an “armed attack.” That is, the Court drew a distinction between acts that constitute a use of force and those uses of force that are serious enough to count as “armed attacks.” Note what this means: in the ICJ’s view, providing arms to rebels violates the U.N. Charter, but it is not a serious enough violation to trigger the right of self-defense by the state that is on the receiving end of the rebels’ activity. There’s another point worth noting, too: The United States generally rejects the idea that there is a distinction between a use of force and an armed attack. (See then-State Department Legal Adviser Will Taft’s article here.) http://www.lawfareblog.com/2013/05/arming-syrian-rebels-lethal-assistance-and-international-law/


The only thing you've made a case for here, is that you think those congress critters should agree to be worse criminals than they already are, or suffer what, a "hypocrisy" charge from some obscure and largely unknown DU poster.

I'll go with the court's reasoning in this case, and not that of the warmongers like you.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Politics.. kentuck Sep 2013 #1
I suppose. n/t ProSense Sep 2013 #2
Kick for ProSense Sep 2013 #3
K&R michigandem58 Sep 2013 #4
Thanks. ProSense Sep 2013 #5
Deserves more exposure! michigandem58 Sep 2013 #7
K & R SunSeeker Sep 2013 #6
K&R great white snark Sep 2013 #8
You mean there's politics at play here? Well, I never. Everybody hearts Putin & Assad now. YAY!!! Tarheel_Dem Sep 2013 #9
Public Law 108–175 n/t ProSense Sep 2013 #10
"Everybody" is false Stupefacto Sep 2013 #11
Welcome to DU. ProSense Sep 2013 #12
Well, obviously the only people who matter heart Pooty & Assad. "Everybody" was a bit broad. Tarheel_Dem Sep 2013 #13
Something familiar ProSense Sep 2013 #16
there has been rather substantial turnover since 2003 dsc Sep 2013 #14
It's easy enough to see who is still there, and ProSense Sep 2013 #15
In the House I am not so sure of that dsc Sep 2013 #18
Of course.. "a one hatey"! Cha Sep 2013 #17
Circumstances change, so policies change FarCenter Sep 2013 #19
It's not a policy. It's a law. ProSense Sep 2013 #20
I don't see wording in the summary of H.R.1828 that authorizes the use of force against Syria? FarCenter Sep 2013 #21
Here is what Kerry said: ProSense Sep 2013 #23
Ah! So it is Bill Branigan who is making stuff up and putting words in Kerry's mouth. FarCenter Sep 2013 #27
Do you disagree with what Kerry said about what the law states? ProSense Sep 2013 #28
The law exists; Kerry's quote is fairly consident with it; Branigan's is not. FarCenter Sep 2013 #29
I hope we can use this same method Hutzpa Sep 2013 #22
President Obama has that effect CakeGrrl Sep 2013 #24
There were ProSense Sep 2013 #26
HRW is a subsidiary of the US foreign affairs, media, and investment banking establishment. FarCenter Sep 2013 #30
So are you implying that ProSense Sep 2013 #31
“Wouldn’t want to create an impression that HRW is not interested in what Snowden has to say.” FarCenter Sep 2013 #32
Again, thanks for proving the point. ProSense Sep 2013 #33
You'll appreciate this. WilliamPitt Sep 2013 #25
LOL Scurrilous Sep 2013 #34
that's because they are smart enough to know stupidicus Sep 2013 #35
"It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime... ProSense Sep 2013 #36
which says nothing about the use of the military action on our part to do it stupidicus Sep 2013 #37
They were going to stand on the border and yell: Leave!!! ProSense Sep 2013 #38
advisors/advising and training/materials aren't missile, etc strikes stupidicus Sep 2013 #39
Again ProSense Sep 2013 #40
again stupidicus Sep 2013 #41
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Many members who voted fo...»Reply #39