General Discussion

earthside

(6,960 posts)

86. For the NRA Hall of Martyrs

Mon Sep 16, 2013, 07:19 PM

Sep 2013

Of course, one feels sad for the twelve killed people and their families.

However, shouldn't the dead be regarded as martyred heroes who made a noble sacrifice for the Second Amendment rights of the shooter?

[font color="red"] :bitter sarcasm: [/font]

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Concealed carry permit holder kills 13, wounds more. [View all] Robb Sep 2013 OP

They're all just "a good guy with a gun" who will save us from the bad guys. nt MH1 Sep 2013 #1

It would be a real shame to have reasonable gun control ,,,,,, Cryptoad Sep 2013 #28

300 million guns already sold in USA golfguru Sep 2013 #117

So your arguement is Cryptoad Sep 2013 #118

Read again.. golfguru Sep 2013 #141

Yep Cryptoad Sep 2013 #142

And then that "good guy with a gun" Hayabusa Sep 2013 #76

Somebody refresh my memory--how many times has a "good guy with a gun" ended a shooting spree? tclambert Sep 2013 #90

I bet you Conceal Carry holders commit crimes at a lower rate than the average citizen. n-t Logical Sep 2013 #2

Citizens without guns shot 0 people in 2012. Robb Sep 2013 #6

And citizens with guns but no CCW permits? NickB79 Sep 2013 #13

In 1982 (sorry I don't have more current figures) citizens with guns Robb Sep 2013 #17

And shooting rates were HIGHER in 1982 than they are today NickB79 Sep 2013 #22

100% of those shot were shot by people with guns. Robb Sep 2013 #27

I feel like your missing the point... Agschmid Sep 2013 #38

You should send a Hallmark card with that graphic on it LanternWaste Sep 2013 #74

Crime has gone down. But MASS SHOOTINGS like this have doubled since the AWB expired. SunSeeker Sep 2013 #97

The Navy shooter used ordinary shot gun golfguru Sep 2013 #150

He used his shot gun to get the weapon he used to mow down the people. nt SunSeeker Sep 2013 #151

What weapon was that? golfguru Sep 2013 #153

Either an AR-15 and/or semi-automatic handguns he took at the location. SunSeeker Sep 2013 #156

but but but logic doesn't come with the emotional investment Supersedeas Sep 2013 #124

+1000! Rhiannon12866 Sep 2013 #25

So , really, your solution is to collect all the guns. Wow, brilliant idea. Let me know how that.... Logical Sep 2013 #46

Australia, 1996 paleotn Sep 2013 #59

Name ONE member of either party who will sponsor that... Logical Sep 2013 #116

Angry huh? Why? WCLinolVir Sep 2013 #120

People love emotion, not facts and reality. nt Logical Sep 2013 #121

That's kind of a self-defeating argument on your part. Gravitycollapse Sep 2013 #50

Turns out, you are correct n/t etherealtruth Sep 2013 #67

I'd bet they commit more crimes than people who could qualify for a CC but don't. DanTex Sep 2013 #14

The average citizen does not own a gun. Period. Blue Idaho Sep 2013 #51

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2013 #52

that is a lot of unsecured guns- illegally sold or taken from idiots who did not properly secure bettyellen Sep 2013 #57

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2013 #64

90%? You sure you didn't just make that number up? DanTex Sep 2013 #63

And you would win that bet. Lizzie Poppet Sep 2013 #62

But not less than those who qualify for a permit, but don't need a gun in their pants Hoyt Sep 2013 #92

"responsible" gun owners one and all! VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #3

No True Scotsman in 3, 2, 1..... Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2013 #4

Suppressing my anger at the oblviousness, the callous disregard for fact and logical intervention... hlthe2b Sep 2013 #5

How many murders are committed by CCW holders? former9thward Sep 2013 #7

In 2008, 100% of shootings were done by people with guns. Robb Sep 2013 #10

You are a real wonder with statistics. former9thward Sep 2013 #11

But will you admit that people without guns did murder other people? ... spin Sep 2013 #43

FBI Statistics - it's not even close... Blue Idaho Sep 2013 #55

I will agree that firearms make murdering someone easier. ... spin Sep 2013 #95

Statistical Outliers. Blue Idaho Sep 2013 #111

A high percentage of the murders in our nation are caused by drug gangs fighting over turf. ... spin Sep 2013 #115

By "high percentage", you mean 12%... DanTex Sep 2013 #122

Let's examine the drug gang problem further. ... spin Sep 2013 #125

A lot of links, but it still only adds up to 12%. DanTex Sep 2013 #126

So 12 out of 100 hundred homicides is insignificant? spin Sep 2013 #130

It's certainly not a "high percentage" as you claimed. DanTex Sep 2013 #131

So what are your solutions or suggestions to solve the problem of gun violence ... spin Sep 2013 #134

A different question, but I think all handguns and semi-automatics should be registered. DanTex Sep 2013 #135

While possibly a worthwhile idea, the registration of all handguns and semi-automatic ... spin Sep 2013 #137

A lot of things are impossible to pass at a national level at this time. DanTex Sep 2013 #138

Just to add, I'm not sure I agree with your political assessment either. DanTex Sep 2013 #140

There has been a strong push for gun control and this push has led to increased sales ... spin Sep 2013 #143

You could make the same argument in favor of, say, transvaginal ultrasounds. DanTex Sep 2013 #144

The Democratic Party is and should be a big tent. .... spin Sep 2013 #147

More CCWers commit gun murders than those who qualify for a permit, but realise gunz aren't necessar Hoyt Sep 2013 #93

I don't know what your title sentence even means. former9thward Sep 2013 #98

Simple, gun nuts tell us permit holders are more law-abiding than general population. But Hoyt Sep 2013 #100

I have a CCW. former9thward Sep 2013 #103

Figured so. Fact is, they are not more law-abiding than 85+% of populace Hoyt Sep 2013 #105

85% of the population could not pass the CCW check. former9thward Sep 2013 #108

Accept this -- as a gun toter, you are more likely to pull a Zimmerman Hoyt Sep 2013 #109

I said I haven't seen my guns in over a year. former9thward Sep 2013 #112

I don't accept that at all. Looks like your trying to start an argument from over here. Tiredofthesame Sep 2013 #129

Post removed Post removed Sep 2013 #133

Thanks for the welcome, I appreciate it. Tiredofthesame Sep 2013 #145

Do you really believe that? whopis01 Sep 2013 #119

Statistics back up the fact that permit holders are more law-abiding than the general ... spin Sep 2013 #136

Yeah, but not more law-abiding than those who could, but have the good sense not to carry. Hoyt Sep 2013 #139

The statistics you suggest do not exist. ... spin Sep 2013 #146

Use common-sense. You have Zimmerman, Loughner, Alexis, JT Ready, etc., in your group. Hoyt Sep 2013 #148

The fact is that you do not need a concealed weapons permit to conceal and carry ... spin Sep 2013 #149

Do you have any proof to back up your assertions? oneshooter Sep 2013 #152

Once again: FUCK THE NRA!!!! gopiscrap Sep 2013 #8

Show us rates or STFU Dreamer Tatum Sep 2013 #9

In 1997, 32,436 were killed by guns. In the same year Robb Sep 2013 #12

So all we have to do is get rid of guns NickB79 Sep 2013 #16

In 1920, diphtheria and measles killed almost 21,000 Americans. Robb Sep 2013 #19

Melted down, can you imagine how many falling down bridges could be rebuild from the recycled steel? RC Sep 2013 #61

Australia, 1996 paleotn Sep 2013 #68

Care to break that down by CCW? Dreamer Tatum Sep 2013 #18

100% of the people shot at the Navy yard today can thank a CCW holder. Robb Sep 2013 #20

Emotion clouds judgment for many. Dreamer Tatum Sep 2013 #21

why is it always emotion that's attributed to the call for stricter gun laws.. frylock Sep 2013 #39

Clearly if he had no CCW permit, no one would have died NickB79 Sep 2013 #23

Now you're just pulling numbers out of thin air. Robb Sep 2013 #29

""100% of the people shot at the Navy yard today can thank a person who eats meat." " zappaman Sep 2013 #30

Really, really weak argument. The gun killed these people. If the Squinch Sep 2013 #40

1 is too many. (nt) paleotn Sep 2013 #69

What percent is that out of total guns and/or gun owners? (nt) The Straight Story Sep 2013 #31

100% of gun owners that year reported owning at least one firearm. Robb Sep 2013 #33

I am sure if you looked real hard Jenoch Sep 2013 #37

Yep, and in many states you can't walk around with those, but yahoos can carry a gun. Hoyt Sep 2013 #94

OH, for god's sakes. 13 people are dead this time from your hobby. Can't you just admit Squinch Sep 2013 #41

I don't own a gun. nt Dreamer Tatum Sep 2013 #42

Then, as we say down here..... paleotn Sep 2013 #87

The standards are very low for CCW now. It's promoting chaos. freshwest Sep 2013 #15

Exactly. How could they give him a CCW permit if he had a criminal record? SunSeeker Sep 2013 #34

Apparently he was arrested but not convicted. DanTex Sep 2013 #36

He said he had an "anger-fueled blackout" in 2004 when he shot out a man's tires. SunSeeker Sep 2013 #72

Wow. I hadn't heard that. DanTex Sep 2013 #75

Read he'd complained of his neighbor making noise, then she was using a paper shredder, and bang. freshwest Sep 2013 #83

So he could not have killed those people without a CCW? hack89 Sep 2013 #60

Come on now, that's not fair MyNameGoesHere Sep 2013 #24

So he was a responsible gun owner, up until the point he wasn't? Rex Sep 2013 #26

Bingo mikeysnot Sep 2013 #32

Dam how could I forget that one! Rex Sep 2013 #35

Probably played too many violent video games! Guns had nothing to do with it! rdharma Sep 2013 #44

Well better to blame video games then gun powder I always say! Rex Sep 2013 #45

K & R n/t glinda Sep 2013 #47

Fuck gun control... Callmecrazy Sep 2013 #48

I wonder if the NRA will remove this guy from their membership list. rdharma Sep 2013 #49

Don't they have a secret shrine where they can go to worship these achievers? Nt. Blue Idaho Sep 2013 #53

Beatify him his most likely etherealtruth Sep 2013 #70

For the NRA Hall of Martyrs earthside Sep 2013 #86

nobody should have any gun,firearms whatsoever Chaco Dundee Sep 2013 #54

I doubt it. The Last Dem. Sep 2013 #56

How could he have a concealed carry permit RebelOne Sep 2013 #58

Was he convicted? bobclark86 Sep 2013 #106

A little late to the show but it's popcorn time now ...like all these threads are. L0oniX Sep 2013 #65

They are all "good guys with guns" until they become etherealtruth Sep 2013 #66

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2013 #71

Signed up today billh58 Sep 2013 #78

And yet again billh58 Sep 2013 #73

Post removed Post removed Sep 2013 #79

LOL. Who are you again? DanTex Sep 2013 #80

You don't suppose billh58 Sep 2013 #91

Hmmm...I wonder.... paleotn Sep 2013 #81

Fort Worth is a hotbed of concealed carry holders Not Sure Sep 2013 #77

You should add Previously arrested known PTSD victim and concealed carry holder malaise Sep 2013 #82

Precisely (nt) paleotn Sep 2013 #84

I have hobbies and none of them endanger the public cpwm17 Sep 2013 #85

Today, a man was murdered by his neighbor (another concealed carry holder?) over a parking space ecstatic Sep 2013 #88

Once again everybody! Sing along! Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2013 #89

Excellent straw man, Robb. You do your cause proud. aikoaiko Sep 2013 #96

Makes more sense than those scared of losing access to more gunz. Hoyt Sep 2013 #101

I carried today didn't kill or threaten anyone. ileus Sep 2013 #99

And like every other time, you didn't need it. Polluting society with more gunz is OK with you. Hoyt Sep 2013 #102

It's too bad one of those "good guys with a gun" frequently isn't around when you need them AndyA Sep 2013 #104

Cue gundamentalists spouting NRA talking points ins 5. . .4. . .3. . .2. . .1. . . Nanjing to Seoul Sep 2013 #107

Reported he took officers handgun, got the Ar-15 from the guard station... Historic NY Sep 2013 #110

Clearly a law-abiding citizen. Vashta Nerada Sep 2013 #113

Just Standing His Ground, right?!?! blkmusclmachine Sep 2013 #114

Thanks for providing this summary. Borchkins Sep 2013 #123

yes and a "legal gun owner too". grantcart Sep 2013 #127

we need another strategy grantcart Sep 2013 #128

If we added the cost of health care for people shot to that total... Robb Sep 2013 #132

Yep, I think we are on to something here my friend. grantcart Sep 2013 #157

"Licensed driver kills 12, wounds more" krispos42 Sep 2013 #154

Sorry, making sense is not what some people want - they thrive on emotion and pain The Straight Story Sep 2013 #155

And yesterday, a two for one! (LINK) Robb Sep 2013 #158