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X_Digger

(18,585 posts)

60. There's a paper I read a couple years ago..

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 09:47 AM

Sep 2013

.. but danged if I can find it, comparing London to NYC in the 1880's to 1920's.

The UK started implementing substantive gun control at the tail end of WWI, mostly in reaction to the Bolshevik revolution and fears that the great swathes of unemployed young men 'back from the war' might get riled up.

When neither country had substantive gun control, NYC still outnumbered London five to one re homicide rate.

This paper has a historical chart of the homicide rate over that time, though. Homicide rate is around 1.3 per 100,000 then.

http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/arts/history/postgraduate/ma_studies/mamodules/hi971/topics/interpersonal/long-term-historical-trends-of-violent-crime.pdf

Let's see.. NYC was at 6.7 per 100,000 for that time frame (1880-1890) (http://www.amazon.com/Murder-York-City-Eric-Monkkonen/dp/0520221885).

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Less guns, less murders--- Care to dispute that? [View all] trumad Sep 2013 OP

So you believe the desire of those killing people pipoman Sep 2013 #1

I believe there would be less murders without guns. trumad Sep 2013 #3

Maybe there would.. pipoman Sep 2013 #16

I can agree with most that you say... trumad Sep 2013 #19

Although pipoman Sep 2013 #35

You are badly in need of a statistics course... DanTex Sep 2013 #44

The statement was/is, "less guns = less murder" pipoman Sep 2013 #52

It's not demonstrably false. It's actually demonstrably true. DanTex Sep 2013 #54

Every single year there are more guns in society than the previous year...every year.. pipoman Sep 2013 #57

As usual, faced with scientific evidence, the NRAer retreats to the safety of talking points. DanTex Sep 2013 #58

Sorry, Dan, the # of guns HAS gone up, and homicides have gone down. Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #83

Sigh. Try to pay attention. DanTex Sep 2013 #84

They would be less effective in killing people. DanTex Sep 2013 #13

The UK is no panacea of violence free living pipoman Sep 2013 #17

Exactly. They have just as much violence, but far less murder. DanTex Sep 2013 #18

The UK has always had pipoman Sep 2013 #30

They don't have "less violence" than us, just less murder. DanTex Sep 2013 #33

That's only one partial solution Orrex Sep 2013 #38

There's a paper I read a couple years ago.. X_Digger Sep 2013 #60

Only 800 for the UK trumad Sep 2013 #23

"Gun deaths" to the exclusion of all else is pretending.. pipoman Sep 2013 #31

Well, I don't think that "cancer deaths" are particularly relevant in a gun debate... DanTex Sep 2013 #34

The difference is actually far starker than trumad's figures muriel_volestrangler Sep 2013 #50

We have also seen more guns and fewer murders hack89 Sep 2013 #2

No it's not.. trumad Sep 2013 #4

Yet we cut our murder rate in half even as gun ownership increased. hack89 Sep 2013 #5

Nice try... trumad Sep 2013 #7

Sure. UBCs, Firearm ID cards, mandatory safety training. hack89 Sep 2013 #12

You mean, as gun ownership has decreased. DanTex Sep 2013 #43

OK. So things are on the right track then. hack89 Sep 2013 #62

What we don't have in common is your total disregard for facts. DanTex Sep 2013 #63

The irony here hack89 Sep 2013 #65

So now you're a culture warrior? Well, that certainly explains the indifference towards facts. DanTex Sep 2013 #68

No - you are. hack89 Sep 2013 #69

And again with the false statements. The only people who ever talk about "culture wars" DanTex Sep 2013 #71

ok hack89 Sep 2013 #72

How low would it be without so many gunz, and gun lovers? Hoyt Sep 2013 #21

Hi Hoyt. How you doing this fine morning? nt hack89 Sep 2013 #25

You are assuming more guns = more people having guns. RC Sep 2013 #79

So then the focus should be on people, not guns hack89 Sep 2013 #80

The focus needs to be on people that think they need guns. All of them. RC Sep 2013 #81

There are many reason to own a gun besides self defense hack89 Sep 2013 #82

Less instruments, less music... onehandle Sep 2013 #6

Straw man on Steroids trumad Sep 2013 #8

I'm agreeing with you. Less guns, less murders. onehandle Sep 2013 #9

Sorry--thanks trumad Sep 2013 #10

It's early. onehandle Sep 2013 #11

Gunsters? Boom Sound 416 Sep 2013 #14

I think Gun Nuts is overused. trumad Sep 2013 #15

I disagree. Heidi Sep 2013 #46

The correct term on this forum is ..... oldhippie Sep 2013 #77

The NRA'ers are blaming Bill Clinton for the Navy-base shooting. tjwash Sep 2013 #20

I'm a proud non gun owner madokie Sep 2013 #22

So you have a Duckhunter935 Sep 2013 #26

What ever madokie Sep 2013 #27

The fundamental problem is that... krispos42 Sep 2013 #67

"Fewer." Robb Sep 2013 #24

I think the answer is right there in the 2nd Amendment in 2 words. safeinOhio Sep 2013 #28

Truth to insanity. 99Forever Sep 2013 #29

80 million people in the US own guns. 1 disturbed man committed a mass shooting. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #45

There are nations with a higher per capita gun ownership el_bryanto Sep 2013 #32

No, there aren't. The US has the highest per capita gun ownership. DanTex Sep 2013 #37

You are right; must have had some out of date information el_bryanto Sep 2013 #41

Your suspicion is correct. DanTex Sep 2013 #42

You can probably thank Michael Moore's 'Bowling' for that spurious fact. n/t X_Digger Sep 2013 #61

USA: Guns 'R Us.....and we use them. AlinPA Sep 2013 #88

How does one go about reducing the overall number of guns with a 2nd Amendment? aikoaiko Sep 2013 #36

If they were "well regulated" there would be fewer guns. safeinOhio Sep 2013 #39

How so? aikoaiko Sep 2013 #40

One person safeinOhio Sep 2013 #48

Again, the topic is overall number of guns aikoaiko Sep 2013 #70

Seems the current regulations on full autos safeinOhio Sep 2013 #85

Sure. LWolf Sep 2013 #47

That is the bottom line cali Sep 2013 #49

Comparison to other countries? Jeneral2885 Sep 2013 #51

The results don't go "either way". DanTex Sep 2013 #55

Not really.,.. rrneck Sep 2013 #53

That was well worth my time pintobean Sep 2013 #73

You're welcome. rrneck Sep 2013 #74

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2013 #56

Welcome to DU gopiscrap Sep 2013 #76

Might be true krispos42 Sep 2013 #59

Thank you for setting things straight, Krispos42. Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #87

Our society is toxic and dying. Their is no simple solution, and NO--inanimate objects aren't Romulox Sep 2013 #64

Aside from the bad grammar, no NV Whino Sep 2013 #66

That's almost certainly true. Lizzie Poppet Sep 2013 #75

I fully agree! gopiscrap Sep 2013 #78

"Care to dispute that?" EX500rider Sep 2013 #86

Thanks for that post. Clears up a lot of misconceptions. Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #89

I think our homicide rate is about 4.8... krispos42 Sep 2013 #90

Which is precisely why we have the highest homicide rate of any BainsBane Sep 2013 #91

No it's not.. EX500rider Sep 2013 #92

LOL krispos42 Sep 2013 #94

I will dispute that -- it's "fewer," dammit! Fewer guns, fewer murders! Dx n/t devils chaplain Sep 2013 #93