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In reply to the discussion: Concealed carry permit holder kills 13, wounds more. [View all]spin
(17,493 posts)130. So 12 out of 100 hundred homicides is insignificant?
Add to that all the injuries caused by gang shootings.
Let's look at your 12% figure a little closer. Your link stated:
The total number of gang homicides reported by respondents in the NYGS sample averaged more than 1,900 annually from 2007 to 2011. During the same time period, the FBI estimated, on average, more than 15,500 homicides across the United States (www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-1). These estimates suggest that gang-related homicides typically accounted for around 12 percent of all homicides annually.
http://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/Survey-Analysis/Measuring-the-Extent-of-Gang-Problems
But the site you linked to admits there may be serious problems with crime data. First note the use of the the word suggests in the sentence, "These estimates suggest that gang-related homicides typically accounted for around 12 percent of all homicides annually."
But what does the National Gang Center say about the data that is collected on gang violence?
Frequently Asked Questions About Gangs
****snip****
5. Are gang homicides increasing?
Because numerous issues surround gang crime data, there is no simple response to this question (see Maxson et al., 2002, for further discussion). First, there is the issue of availabilityor lack thereofof gang crime data. Nearly half of law enforcement agencies report they do not regularly record any criminal offenses as gang-related (National Youth Gang Survey, 2009, see Regularly Record Any Criminal Offense as "Gang-Related), and those that do most often do so only for violent offenses (Egley and Major, 2003). Second, agencies employ varying criteria for recording a crime as gang-related (Egley et al., 2006). Broadly speaking, some agencies record a crime as gang-related when it involves a gang member as either a perpetrator or victim; other agencies use a narrower approach and record a crime as gang-related only when the motive behind the crime furthers the interest and activities of the gang. Third, and consequently, the term gang homicide often subsumes lethal outcomes involving such diverse sources, for example, as gang rivalries, drug market participation, solitary crimes involving individual gang members, or arguments between acquaintances, such that there is characteristically no single gang homicide problem but rather many gang homicide problems (see Tita and Abrahamse, 2004)....emphasis added
With the above caveats in mind, it is also important to note that most gang-problem areas do not report having experienced gang-related homicides. Over the 20022007 survey period, more than half of the jurisdictions reporting gang problems in the NYGS did not report a gang-related homicide, including 77 percent of the rural counties and 80 percent of the smaller cities that reported gang problems. In contrast, gang-related homicides were most likely to occur in larger cities between 2002 and 2007, with nearly two-thirds documenting an annual maximum of one or more during this time period (National Youth Gang Center, 2009, see Number of Gang-Related Homicides). Larger cities and suburban counties remain the primary location of gangs, gang members, and gang homicides. Excluding Chicago and Los Angeles (which, on average, have accounted for roughly one-quarter of all gang homicides recorded in the NYGS over the past seven years), gang homicides increased 8.5 percent in very large cities (with populations of 100,000 or more) from 2002 to 2008. To illustrate the difficulties associated with making generalizations about gang homicide trends, the annual number in Chicago increased 22.5 percent, while the annual number in Los Angeles decreased by 52.3 percent in the 7-year time frame. These conflicting trends in, arguably, the two most gang-populated cities in the United States, underscore an important reality about gangs: Levels of gang violence differ from one city to another, from one community to another, from one gang to another, and even among cliques within the same gang (Howell, 1998, p. 9).
Simply stated, reports of gang-related homicides are concentrated mostly in the largest cities in the United States, where there are long-standing and persistent gang problems and a greater number of documented gang membersmost of whom are identified by law enforcement as young adults (see also Egley and ODonnell, 2008). Gang homicides appear to have increased slightly from 2002 to 2008 in very large cities, but sharply conflicting trends in the two reputed gang capitals serve as a cautionary warning about making generalizations about gang violence patterns.
http://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/About/FAQ#q5
I mentioned my support for the legalization of some drugs as our War on Drugs was lost decades ago. I also mentioned my support for a better financed and managed BATF and efforts by all law enforcement agencies to reduce the straw purchase and smuggling of firearms to our inner cities. I also favor much stronger penalties for those caught engaged in such activity.
But I do also support universal background checks on the sales of all firearms and a much improved NICS background check system.
What are your suggestions?
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Somebody refresh my memory--how many times has a "good guy with a gun" ended a shooting spree?
tclambert
Sep 2013
#90
I bet you Conceal Carry holders commit crimes at a lower rate than the average citizen. n-t
Logical
Sep 2013
#2
Crime has gone down. But MASS SHOOTINGS like this have doubled since the AWB expired.
SunSeeker
Sep 2013
#97
So , really, your solution is to collect all the guns. Wow, brilliant idea. Let me know how that....
Logical
Sep 2013
#46
I'd bet they commit more crimes than people who could qualify for a CC but don't.
DanTex
Sep 2013
#14
that is a lot of unsecured guns- illegally sold or taken from idiots who did not properly secure
bettyellen
Sep 2013
#57
But not less than those who qualify for a permit, but don't need a gun in their pants
Hoyt
Sep 2013
#92
Suppressing my anger at the oblviousness, the callous disregard for fact and logical intervention...
hlthe2b
Sep 2013
#5
A high percentage of the murders in our nation are caused by drug gangs fighting over turf. ...
spin
Sep 2013
#115
So what are your solutions or suggestions to solve the problem of gun violence ...
spin
Sep 2013
#134
A different question, but I think all handguns and semi-automatics should be registered.
DanTex
Sep 2013
#135
While possibly a worthwhile idea, the registration of all handguns and semi-automatic ...
spin
Sep 2013
#137
There has been a strong push for gun control and this push has led to increased sales ...
spin
Sep 2013
#143
More CCWers commit gun murders than those who qualify for a permit, but realise gunz aren't necessar
Hoyt
Sep 2013
#93
Simple, gun nuts tell us permit holders are more law-abiding than general population. But
Hoyt
Sep 2013
#100
I don't accept that at all. Looks like your trying to start an argument from over here.
Tiredofthesame
Sep 2013
#129
Statistics back up the fact that permit holders are more law-abiding than the general ...
spin
Sep 2013
#136
Yeah, but not more law-abiding than those who could, but have the good sense not to carry.
Hoyt
Sep 2013
#139
Use common-sense. You have Zimmerman, Loughner, Alexis, JT Ready, etc., in your group.
Hoyt
Sep 2013
#148
The fact is that you do not need a concealed weapons permit to conceal and carry ...
spin
Sep 2013
#149
Melted down, can you imagine how many falling down bridges could be rebuild from the recycled steel?
RC
Sep 2013
#61
""100% of the people shot at the Navy yard today can thank a person who eats meat." "
zappaman
Sep 2013
#30
Yep, and in many states you can't walk around with those, but yahoos can carry a gun.
Hoyt
Sep 2013
#94
OH, for god's sakes. 13 people are dead this time from your hobby. Can't you just admit
Squinch
Sep 2013
#41
He said he had an "anger-fueled blackout" in 2004 when he shot out a man's tires.
SunSeeker
Sep 2013
#72
Read he'd complained of his neighbor making noise, then she was using a paper shredder, and bang.
freshwest
Sep 2013
#83
Don't they have a secret shrine where they can go to worship these achievers? Nt.
Blue Idaho
Sep 2013
#53
A little late to the show but it's popcorn time now ...like all these threads are.
L0oniX
Sep 2013
#65
You should add Previously arrested known PTSD victim and concealed carry holder
malaise
Sep 2013
#82
Today, a man was murdered by his neighbor (another concealed carry holder?) over a parking space
ecstatic
Sep 2013
#88
And like every other time, you didn't need it. Polluting society with more gunz is OK with you.
Hoyt
Sep 2013
#102
It's too bad one of those "good guys with a gun" frequently isn't around when you need them
AndyA
Sep 2013
#104
Cue gundamentalists spouting NRA talking points ins 5. . .4. . .3. . .2. . .1. . .
Nanjing to Seoul
Sep 2013
#107
Reported he took officers handgun, got the Ar-15 from the guard station...
Historic NY
Sep 2013
#110
Sorry, making sense is not what some people want - they thrive on emotion and pain
The Straight Story
Sep 2013
#155