General Discussion

krispos42

(49,445 posts)

154. "Licensed driver kills 12, wounds more"

Wed Sep 18, 2013, 12:02 AM

Sep 2013

"Licensed driver arrested for threatening President Obama"

"Licensed driver shoots 17-year old hiding in her bathtub, others in mass shooting"

"Licensed driver engages in shootout with police"

"Licensed driver puts on body armor, displays his handgun, and GOES INTO MOVIE THEATER."

The only story that is in any way relevant to your attempt here is the one where the guy shot up an SUV and killed a teenager after he claimed he saw a gun pulled on him.

The Navy Yard shooter committed premeditated murder with a long gun, so his CCW permit status was irrelevant.

The Obama-threatener never shot anybody, or tried to, with a pistol, so again, CCW permit status was irrelevant.

The Florida mass shooter was in his apartment when he started the fire and began shooting, so, again, CCW permit status was irrelevant.

The police-shootout guy committed a premeditated robbery, so his CCW permit status, again, was irrelevant. He would have simply carried illegally to the scene of the crime.

The movie theater guy was open-carrying, and committed no gun crime. He was busted for falsifying CIA credentials. So, again, CCW permit status was irrelevant.

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Concealed carry permit holder kills 13, wounds more. [View all] Robb Sep 2013 OP

They're all just "a good guy with a gun" who will save us from the bad guys. nt MH1 Sep 2013 #1

It would be a real shame to have reasonable gun control ,,,,,, Cryptoad Sep 2013 #28

300 million guns already sold in USA golfguru Sep 2013 #117

So your arguement is Cryptoad Sep 2013 #118

Read again.. golfguru Sep 2013 #141

Yep Cryptoad Sep 2013 #142

And then that "good guy with a gun" Hayabusa Sep 2013 #76

Somebody refresh my memory--how many times has a "good guy with a gun" ended a shooting spree? tclambert Sep 2013 #90

I bet you Conceal Carry holders commit crimes at a lower rate than the average citizen. n-t Logical Sep 2013 #2

Citizens without guns shot 0 people in 2012. Robb Sep 2013 #6

And citizens with guns but no CCW permits? NickB79 Sep 2013 #13

In 1982 (sorry I don't have more current figures) citizens with guns Robb Sep 2013 #17

And shooting rates were HIGHER in 1982 than they are today NickB79 Sep 2013 #22

100% of those shot were shot by people with guns. Robb Sep 2013 #27

I feel like your missing the point... Agschmid Sep 2013 #38

You should send a Hallmark card with that graphic on it LanternWaste Sep 2013 #74

Crime has gone down. But MASS SHOOTINGS like this have doubled since the AWB expired. SunSeeker Sep 2013 #97

The Navy shooter used ordinary shot gun golfguru Sep 2013 #150

He used his shot gun to get the weapon he used to mow down the people. nt SunSeeker Sep 2013 #151

What weapon was that? golfguru Sep 2013 #153

Either an AR-15 and/or semi-automatic handguns he took at the location. SunSeeker Sep 2013 #156

but but but logic doesn't come with the emotional investment Supersedeas Sep 2013 #124

+1000! Rhiannon12866 Sep 2013 #25

So , really, your solution is to collect all the guns. Wow, brilliant idea. Let me know how that.... Logical Sep 2013 #46

Australia, 1996 paleotn Sep 2013 #59

Name ONE member of either party who will sponsor that... Logical Sep 2013 #116

Angry huh? Why? WCLinolVir Sep 2013 #120

People love emotion, not facts and reality. nt Logical Sep 2013 #121

That's kind of a self-defeating argument on your part. Gravitycollapse Sep 2013 #50

Turns out, you are correct n/t etherealtruth Sep 2013 #67

I'd bet they commit more crimes than people who could qualify for a CC but don't. DanTex Sep 2013 #14

The average citizen does not own a gun. Period. Blue Idaho Sep 2013 #51

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2013 #52

that is a lot of unsecured guns- illegally sold or taken from idiots who did not properly secure bettyellen Sep 2013 #57

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2013 #64

90%? You sure you didn't just make that number up? DanTex Sep 2013 #63

And you would win that bet. Lizzie Poppet Sep 2013 #62

But not less than those who qualify for a permit, but don't need a gun in their pants Hoyt Sep 2013 #92

"responsible" gun owners one and all! VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #3

No True Scotsman in 3, 2, 1..... Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2013 #4

Suppressing my anger at the oblviousness, the callous disregard for fact and logical intervention... hlthe2b Sep 2013 #5

How many murders are committed by CCW holders? former9thward Sep 2013 #7

In 2008, 100% of shootings were done by people with guns. Robb Sep 2013 #10

You are a real wonder with statistics. former9thward Sep 2013 #11

But will you admit that people without guns did murder other people? ... spin Sep 2013 #43

FBI Statistics - it's not even close... Blue Idaho Sep 2013 #55

I will agree that firearms make murdering someone easier. ... spin Sep 2013 #95

Statistical Outliers. Blue Idaho Sep 2013 #111

A high percentage of the murders in our nation are caused by drug gangs fighting over turf. ... spin Sep 2013 #115

By "high percentage", you mean 12%... DanTex Sep 2013 #122

Let's examine the drug gang problem further. ... spin Sep 2013 #125

A lot of links, but it still only adds up to 12%. DanTex Sep 2013 #126

So 12 out of 100 hundred homicides is insignificant? spin Sep 2013 #130

It's certainly not a "high percentage" as you claimed. DanTex Sep 2013 #131

So what are your solutions or suggestions to solve the problem of gun violence ... spin Sep 2013 #134

A different question, but I think all handguns and semi-automatics should be registered. DanTex Sep 2013 #135

While possibly a worthwhile idea, the registration of all handguns and semi-automatic ... spin Sep 2013 #137

A lot of things are impossible to pass at a national level at this time. DanTex Sep 2013 #138

Just to add, I'm not sure I agree with your political assessment either. DanTex Sep 2013 #140

There has been a strong push for gun control and this push has led to increased sales ... spin Sep 2013 #143

You could make the same argument in favor of, say, transvaginal ultrasounds. DanTex Sep 2013 #144

The Democratic Party is and should be a big tent. .... spin Sep 2013 #147

More CCWers commit gun murders than those who qualify for a permit, but realise gunz aren't necessar Hoyt Sep 2013 #93

I don't know what your title sentence even means. former9thward Sep 2013 #98

Simple, gun nuts tell us permit holders are more law-abiding than general population. But Hoyt Sep 2013 #100

I have a CCW. former9thward Sep 2013 #103

Figured so. Fact is, they are not more law-abiding than 85+% of populace Hoyt Sep 2013 #105

85% of the population could not pass the CCW check. former9thward Sep 2013 #108

Accept this -- as a gun toter, you are more likely to pull a Zimmerman Hoyt Sep 2013 #109

I said I haven't seen my guns in over a year. former9thward Sep 2013 #112

I don't accept that at all. Looks like your trying to start an argument from over here. Tiredofthesame Sep 2013 #129

Post removed Post removed Sep 2013 #133

Thanks for the welcome, I appreciate it. Tiredofthesame Sep 2013 #145

Do you really believe that? whopis01 Sep 2013 #119

Statistics back up the fact that permit holders are more law-abiding than the general ... spin Sep 2013 #136

Yeah, but not more law-abiding than those who could, but have the good sense not to carry. Hoyt Sep 2013 #139

The statistics you suggest do not exist. ... spin Sep 2013 #146

Use common-sense. You have Zimmerman, Loughner, Alexis, JT Ready, etc., in your group. Hoyt Sep 2013 #148

The fact is that you do not need a concealed weapons permit to conceal and carry ... spin Sep 2013 #149

Do you have any proof to back up your assertions? oneshooter Sep 2013 #152

Once again: FUCK THE NRA!!!! gopiscrap Sep 2013 #8

Show us rates or STFU Dreamer Tatum Sep 2013 #9

In 1997, 32,436 were killed by guns. In the same year Robb Sep 2013 #12

So all we have to do is get rid of guns NickB79 Sep 2013 #16

In 1920, diphtheria and measles killed almost 21,000 Americans. Robb Sep 2013 #19

Melted down, can you imagine how many falling down bridges could be rebuild from the recycled steel? RC Sep 2013 #61

Australia, 1996 paleotn Sep 2013 #68

Care to break that down by CCW? Dreamer Tatum Sep 2013 #18

100% of the people shot at the Navy yard today can thank a CCW holder. Robb Sep 2013 #20

Emotion clouds judgment for many. Dreamer Tatum Sep 2013 #21

why is it always emotion that's attributed to the call for stricter gun laws.. frylock Sep 2013 #39

Clearly if he had no CCW permit, no one would have died NickB79 Sep 2013 #23

Now you're just pulling numbers out of thin air. Robb Sep 2013 #29

""100% of the people shot at the Navy yard today can thank a person who eats meat." " zappaman Sep 2013 #30

Really, really weak argument. The gun killed these people. If the Squinch Sep 2013 #40

1 is too many. (nt) paleotn Sep 2013 #69

What percent is that out of total guns and/or gun owners? (nt) The Straight Story Sep 2013 #31

100% of gun owners that year reported owning at least one firearm. Robb Sep 2013 #33

I am sure if you looked real hard Jenoch Sep 2013 #37

Yep, and in many states you can't walk around with those, but yahoos can carry a gun. Hoyt Sep 2013 #94

OH, for god's sakes. 13 people are dead this time from your hobby. Can't you just admit Squinch Sep 2013 #41

I don't own a gun. nt Dreamer Tatum Sep 2013 #42

Then, as we say down here..... paleotn Sep 2013 #87

The standards are very low for CCW now. It's promoting chaos. freshwest Sep 2013 #15

Exactly. How could they give him a CCW permit if he had a criminal record? SunSeeker Sep 2013 #34

Apparently he was arrested but not convicted. DanTex Sep 2013 #36

He said he had an "anger-fueled blackout" in 2004 when he shot out a man's tires. SunSeeker Sep 2013 #72

Wow. I hadn't heard that. DanTex Sep 2013 #75

Read he'd complained of his neighbor making noise, then she was using a paper shredder, and bang. freshwest Sep 2013 #83

So he could not have killed those people without a CCW? hack89 Sep 2013 #60

Come on now, that's not fair MyNameGoesHere Sep 2013 #24

So he was a responsible gun owner, up until the point he wasn't? Rex Sep 2013 #26

Bingo mikeysnot Sep 2013 #32

Dam how could I forget that one! Rex Sep 2013 #35

Probably played too many violent video games! Guns had nothing to do with it! rdharma Sep 2013 #44

Well better to blame video games then gun powder I always say! Rex Sep 2013 #45

K & R n/t glinda Sep 2013 #47

Fuck gun control... Callmecrazy Sep 2013 #48

I wonder if the NRA will remove this guy from their membership list. rdharma Sep 2013 #49

Don't they have a secret shrine where they can go to worship these achievers? Nt. Blue Idaho Sep 2013 #53

Beatify him his most likely etherealtruth Sep 2013 #70

For the NRA Hall of Martyrs earthside Sep 2013 #86

nobody should have any gun,firearms whatsoever Chaco Dundee Sep 2013 #54

I doubt it. The Last Dem. Sep 2013 #56

How could he have a concealed carry permit RebelOne Sep 2013 #58

Was he convicted? bobclark86 Sep 2013 #106

A little late to the show but it's popcorn time now ...like all these threads are. L0oniX Sep 2013 #65

They are all "good guys with guns" until they become etherealtruth Sep 2013 #66

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2013 #71

Signed up today billh58 Sep 2013 #78

And yet again billh58 Sep 2013 #73

Post removed Post removed Sep 2013 #79

LOL. Who are you again? DanTex Sep 2013 #80

You don't suppose billh58 Sep 2013 #91

Hmmm...I wonder.... paleotn Sep 2013 #81

Fort Worth is a hotbed of concealed carry holders Not Sure Sep 2013 #77

You should add Previously arrested known PTSD victim and concealed carry holder malaise Sep 2013 #82

Precisely (nt) paleotn Sep 2013 #84

I have hobbies and none of them endanger the public cpwm17 Sep 2013 #85

Today, a man was murdered by his neighbor (another concealed carry holder?) over a parking space ecstatic Sep 2013 #88

Once again everybody! Sing along! Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2013 #89

Excellent straw man, Robb. You do your cause proud. aikoaiko Sep 2013 #96

Makes more sense than those scared of losing access to more gunz. Hoyt Sep 2013 #101

I carried today didn't kill or threaten anyone. ileus Sep 2013 #99

And like every other time, you didn't need it. Polluting society with more gunz is OK with you. Hoyt Sep 2013 #102

It's too bad one of those "good guys with a gun" frequently isn't around when you need them AndyA Sep 2013 #104

Cue gundamentalists spouting NRA talking points ins 5. . .4. . .3. . .2. . .1. . . Nanjing to Seoul Sep 2013 #107

Reported he took officers handgun, got the Ar-15 from the guard station... Historic NY Sep 2013 #110

Clearly a law-abiding citizen. Vashta Nerada Sep 2013 #113

Just Standing His Ground, right?!?! blkmusclmachine Sep 2013 #114

Thanks for providing this summary. Borchkins Sep 2013 #123

yes and a "legal gun owner too". grantcart Sep 2013 #127

we need another strategy grantcart Sep 2013 #128

If we added the cost of health care for people shot to that total... Robb Sep 2013 #132

Yep, I think we are on to something here my friend. grantcart Sep 2013 #157

"Licensed driver kills 12, wounds more" krispos42 Sep 2013 #154

Sorry, making sense is not what some people want - they thrive on emotion and pain The Straight Story Sep 2013 #155

And yesterday, a two for one! (LINK) Robb Sep 2013 #158