General Discussion

BelgianMadCow

(5,379 posts)

1. I noticed that too. Here is a leaked draft of the TPP sister, the transatlantic version

Wed Sep 18, 2013, 05:42 AM

Sep 2013

called the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership. As far as I've been reading the situation, these two pacts are intended to resemble one another closely. The TTIP negotiations have only just begun (spring this year), the TPP is ahead of it.

http://www.humanite.fr/sites/default/files/pdf/2013/huma_internet_2013-05-18_texte_commission1_0.pdf

I plan to keep raising a stink about these deals. Note that this draft comes out of the (unelected) European Commission. It's being pushed hard by Karel De Gucht, a neoliberal if ever there was one, and the EU commissioner for Trade.

There is quite a big part in there about investment protection and investor-state resolution. It has this brilliant bit:

"All sub-central authorities (such as States or municipalities) should effectively comply with the investor protection chapter of this agreement."

I personally think a big part of the solution to many problems is going local. Guess who's not very much in favour of that.

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The defenders on the TPP: "You don't know that" and "It's just speculation". Bullfuckingshit. [View all] cali Sep 2013 OP

I noticed that too. Here is a leaked draft of the TPP sister, the transatlantic version BelgianMadCow Sep 2013 #1

You know the drill, cali - "it's all speculation" until Democracyinkind Sep 2013 #2

It's speculation until it's "old news." morningfog Sep 2013 #3

Or speculation until its "compromise"... grahamhgreen Sep 2013 #5

or it's speculation until "we can fix it later." magical thyme Sep 2013 #132

At that point, discussing it would be nothing but "shit stirring," right? merrily Sep 2013 #18

Yep. but I'm going to call the Zombie Apologists out on their crap every fucking time cali Sep 2013 #4

My recs shall be with you! Democracyinkind Sep 2013 #6

hey, thanks! cali Sep 2013 #7

May the recs be with you! Mine always is. Thanks for all you do! Divernan Sep 2013 #13

Thank you, Divernan. For everything. cali Sep 2013 #20

Zombie apologists. I like it! It drives me crazy around here, the way RW shit gets passed and we Nay Sep 2013 #33

The Zombie Apologists - glad to finally have a name for them, Raksha Sep 2013 #67

Maybe we should start a fund to deprogram these poor afflicted folks cali Sep 2013 #74

Good idea - it isn't hard to identify them. Raksha Sep 2013 #77

Hear, hear. nt woo me with science Sep 2013 #170

It's all speculation until we figure Congress or Republicans or someone forced him into it. merrily Sep 2013 #14

Pass it now, fix it later. obxhead Sep 2013 #36

+1 proverbialwisdom Sep 2013 #38

Thanks - I left that one off my list of zombie lines. Raksha Sep 2013 #68

The Toilet Paper Pact - wiping their asses with the American dream. grahamhgreen Sep 2013 #143

kick! - n/t Locrian Sep 2013 #8

k&r . . .n/t annabanana Sep 2013 #9

If not enough is known . . . another_liberal Sep 2013 #10

Did the Framers contemplate Senate confirmation as a rubber stamp, after the fact? merrily Sep 2013 #15

Agreed. another_liberal Sep 2013 #17

Foresight or hindsight? merrily Sep 2013 #21

I came across this, TheJames Sep 2013 #161

When it finally collapses and leaves corporations destitute..... Rain Mcloud Sep 2013 #11

You think the TPP will leave corporations destitute? merrily Sep 2013 #16

Pity the poor Corporations! BuelahWitch Sep 2013 #90

The planned TPP is more evidence the corporations call the shots in our society.... JohnyCanuck Sep 2013 #12

Yep. Here's a look at Obama's choice: Chief Ag Negotiator for the USTR. Sickening cali Sep 2013 #19

that IS quite sickening G_j Sep 2013 #39

Isn't it though? And this was someone the President CHOSE cali Sep 2013 #43

Aw, Cali. bvar22 Sep 2013 #97

"Hater" tblue Sep 2013 #125

use to think they were just feigning ignorance. come to realize it is willful. KG Sep 2013 #22

by and large, I think it is willful cali Sep 2013 #23

That's true, I think. Jackpine Radical Sep 2013 #37

epic KG Sep 2013 #41

You have a link for that? pscot Sep 2013 #106

Perhaps some are that unintelligent and easily led, but I assure you I could mimic them and get work Dragonfli Sep 2013 #72

OIW - Because Obama! KG Sep 2013 #88

Hilarious!! beerandjesus Sep 2013 #92

You should post that as a stand alone OP without a "sarcasm" tag! bvar22 Sep 2013 #108

yes. Vanje Sep 2013 #136

Done, let's see if it gets even one rec Dragonfli Sep 2013 #174

11 at this time. AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #177

21 now. And from some really STRONG Obama supporters too! Number23 Sep 2013 #178

Just as I suspected. Some Obama supporters are satire impaired. It's something that cannot be cured. AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #179

It was implied that if that person made that into an OP, it would get recs presumably from Number23 Sep 2013 #182

Rec AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #171

Done Dragonfli Sep 2013 #175

I just tried but found I am forbidden to post in GD due to my answer to a nuisance poster Dragonfli Sep 2013 #173

Done, finally: Dragonfli Sep 2013 #176

Well said, Dragonfli! Good Read! KoKo Sep 2013 #114

I have a serious soft spot for smar asses. cali Sep 2013 #120

Excellent post! nt adirondacker Sep 2013 #162

I think that some try to make their lives easier by choosing to believe some things with blind faith rhett o rick Sep 2013 #119

They are unable to discern principled opposition to the President Maedhros Sep 2013 #121

I think they can discern. They use comparison of opposition to something terrible rhett o rick Sep 2013 #127

The sociopaths that have been cultivated dotymed Sep 2013 #32

Secret negotiations with secret (Corporate) provisions .... unhappycamper Sep 2013 #24

Secret negotiations with secret (Corporate) provisions... bvar22 Sep 2013 #109

From "They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1933-1945" by Milton Mayer Maedhros Sep 2013 #122

Chillingly on point! Sounds like the Zombie bible! Divernan Sep 2013 #142

Human behavior doesn't change that much over the span of only a few decades.[n/t] Maedhros Sep 2013 #163

Sounds a lot like the MuseRider Sep 2013 #129

Kicked and Recommended! nt Enthusiast Sep 2013 #25

We studied it a bit in school laundry_queen Sep 2013 #26

K & R AzDar Sep 2013 #27

K & R !!!!!!! djean111 Sep 2013 #28

K&R AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #29

AnotherMcIntosh we do. dotymed Sep 2013 #49

"1%" is, of course, a shorthand expression for the elite rich and the super-rich. AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #54

I agree. dotymed Sep 2013 #169

I thought investors were suppose to take risks to reap financial rewards... KansDem Sep 2013 #30

You just hate Obama. WilliamPitt Sep 2013 #31

When you're right, you're right, and this hits it right on the head. K&R 11 Bravo Sep 2013 #34

"Nobody could have anticipated....." Roland99 Sep 2013 #35

This. blackspade Sep 2013 #40

Good thread, cali. woo me with science Sep 2013 #42

And none of the trade agreements since NAFTA have had provision on labor rights and the environment. pampango Sep 2013 #44

the problem is that even if it does have some protections cali Sep 2013 #46

If "they are", I agree with you. pampango Sep 2013 #48

The burden of proof is on Obama to reveal proposals & his position on same NOW! Divernan Sep 2013 #52

I think it is equally plausible that Obama is keeping provisions that House republicans will hate pampango Sep 2013 #56

I think a simple majority of both chambers is unconstitutional. Divernan Sep 2013 #65

That may be but it is the procedure used for all trade treaties. pampango Sep 2013 #76

The flaw in your theory Kermitt Gribble Sep 2013 #135

Yes, he's posted this same stuff elsewhere dreamnightwind Sep 2013 #164

1000%! Protections/regulations are worth shit when: Divernan Sep 2013 #50

Good Points, "Divernan"! KoKo Sep 2013 #113

You apparently enjoy a) lying and b) propaganda brentspeak Sep 2013 #147

Thank you for this post dreamnightwind Sep 2013 #165

once something is law it's hard to change. price gouge drug prices have to be stopped Sunlei Sep 2013 #45

At least TPP supporters are easy to spot. Anyone with a Wall St portfolio. raouldukelives Sep 2013 #47

Not everybody with a stock portfolio is in favor of the damned shitty trade deal. Chan790 Sep 2013 #64

They may not be, but every dollar in the markets is a vote of confidence for more of the same. raouldukelives Sep 2013 #81

There is no other place to put money short of RE speculation. Chan790 Sep 2013 #82

Well, I seriously beg to differ that RE specualtion is worse than Halliburton. raouldukelives Sep 2013 #172

And the Jury voted 0-6 to LEAVE IT. Autumn Sep 2013 #51

HAH! Take that, Zombie alerter! Divernan Sep 2013 #55

Lol. I knew "Zombie Apologist" was likely to get some people in a lather cali Sep 2013 #58

It certainly did get someone in a lather. Autumn Sep 2013 #60

Wow. They tried to get this deleted, huh? Marr Sep 2013 #62

The censorship system defeated ...need this to happen more often. L0oniX Sep 2013 #70

Hah...someone alerted and got voted down. Raksha Sep 2013 #75

They have no argument. Ridicule and the rofl emoticon is all they have. They must rhett o rick Sep 2013 #128

Excellent post cali - TPP needs to die. nt TBF Sep 2013 #53

Great post, Cali Oilwellian Sep 2013 #57

I didn't realize there were any defenders of the TPP. Raksha Sep 2013 #59

Good post cali! MuseRider Sep 2013 #61

Seems that Cryptoad Sep 2013 #63

seems like you haven't a clue as to what you are talking about, honey. cali Sep 2013 #66

LMFAO perfect. n/t L0oniX Sep 2013 #69

Sorry Cryptoad Sep 2013 #71

sorry, but it's not merely speculative cali Sep 2013 #73

But cali. It is speculative. Until it's done Autumn Sep 2013 #79

YOu can not be against something before it exist Cryptoad Sep 2013 #83

You can keep your head in the sand Crypttoad. Autumn Sep 2013 #85

I'll just wait until AFTER the Keystone Pipeline is in place.... Vanje Sep 2013 #141

Yall will be far more convincing Cryptoad Sep 2013 #148

You couldn't convince me the sky was blue if it was a fucking sunny day. Autumn Sep 2013 #153

I wish I was as smart as you,,,,,,, Cryptoad Sep 2013 #154

You might get there. Autumn Sep 2013 #155

geeez,,,,,, Cryptoad Sep 2013 #157

that's ridiculous and none too swift. cali Sep 2013 #104

Do you feel better if you personally attack other posters.? Cryptoad Sep 2013 #149

Says the person who calls others "Obama haters" in this very thread neverforget Sep 2013 #151

you dont believe there are people who hate Obama......? Cryptoad Sep 2013 #158

you accused others of doing what you have done all the while complaining neverforget Sep 2013 #159

another red herring Cryptoad Sep 2013 #168

Let me ask you this, did you support ACA before it "existed"? cui bono Sep 2013 #112

Beautiful takedown :) Celefin Sep 2013 #123

No it would be impossible.... Cryptoad Sep 2013 #145

....and you can't criticize a Fed nominee, before he's been nominated..... Vanje Sep 2013 #139

but nobody has be nominated..... Sure you can criticize people you dont want to nominated Cryptoad Sep 2013 #146

You're working very hard. Vanje Sep 2013 #152

Thank you Cryptoad Sep 2013 #156

Please help, I'm confused. beerandjesus Sep 2013 #94

Actually it's because you are a libertarian isolationist Rand Paul worshiper - Dragonfli Sep 2013 #103

Depends Vanje Sep 2013 #140

"whining Obama Haters" WorseBeforeBetter Sep 2013 #78

Are you saying the author of the linked post is an "Obama Hater"? rhett o rick Sep 2013 #86

Did I say that? Did you threaten me ? Cryptoad Sep 2013 #87

derp,,,,,, bvar22 Sep 2013 #101

could it possibly be performance art? KG Sep 2013 #107

If only. I think it's a bad attempt to start a fight. I dont have anyone on my ignore list but rhett o rick Sep 2013 #116

I love you for this, bvar22! smokey nj Sep 2013 #115

lol. damned near a perfect summation. cali Sep 2013 #118

The question was not directed at you..... Cryptoad Sep 2013 #150

Just because someone points a gun at your head doesnt mean they will shoot. Be patient and rhett o rick Sep 2013 #80

Is that a threat? Cryptoad Sep 2013 #84

it's called a metaphor. yikes. cali Sep 2013 #91

I think that's a little hard for some to make the connection. Autumn Sep 2013 #96

It's hard because "blind faith" is the easy way out. No thinking required. nm rhett o rick Sep 2013 #100

and if the "hair-on-fire" crew every gets something blocked by massive, embarrassing outcry MisterP Sep 2013 #89

How is "you don't know that" and "it's speculation" a defense? joshcryer Sep 2013 #93

When it allows one to say "Bullfuckingshit." ProSense Sep 2013 #95

lol. you seem put out. what a shame. cali Sep 2013 #98

I've already ProSense Sep 2013 #99

uh, no. you really didn't and virtually no one is buying what YOU peddle. cali Sep 2013 #102

Oh, some people are buying what "YOU peddle" ProSense Sep 2013 #105

Prosense, have you ever been forclosed upon due to joblessness? livingwagenow Sep 2013 #126

Who are you, and what do your questions have to do with my point? ProSense Sep 2013 #130

TPP is poison. Thanks for raising awareness. knr nt livingwagenow Sep 2013 #110

Leo Gerard was just talking about this on the Ed show - Unions say "NO" to TPP! NRaleighLiberal Sep 2013 #111

Recommend! KoKo Sep 2013 #117

. blkmusclmachine Sep 2013 #124

K&R! Phlem Sep 2013 #131

Recommended thread, cali... MrMickeysMom Sep 2013 #133

The good news is - all the scorn and scathing put-downs by those who believe everything Obama does djean111 Sep 2013 #134

Don't tell me; tell your Congress critter. No TTP, NO fast track authority. Vincardog Sep 2013 #137

Amen. nt silvershadow Sep 2013 #138

The Toilet Paper Pact - wiping their asses with the American dream. grahamhgreen Sep 2013 #144

The CORPS... nikto Sep 2013 #160

K&R. Thanks for posting this. JDPriestly Sep 2013 #166

Well, Hell. What is he thinking? juajen Sep 2013 #167

kick woo me with science Sep 2013 #180

197 Recs. woo me with science Sep 2013 #181