Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
Editorials & Other Articles
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: The defenders on the TPP: "You don't know that" and "It's just speculation". Bullfuckingshit. [View all]pampango
(24,692 posts)56. I think it is equally plausible that Obama is keeping provisions that House republicans will hate
from them. He may think (erroneously IMHO) that House republicans will pass 'fast track authority' if they don't know about labor and environmental provisions. The House would not give Clinton fast track in 1998 precisely because he wanted to include labor and environmental provisions.
Obama-wary Tea Partiers and labor-aligned Democrats could block "fast-track" authority for two huge agreements.
It is generally agreed that the Obama will not be able to conclude the TPP and TTIP negotiations unless Congress grants him Trade Promotion Authority (TPA) -- commonly known as "fast-track" -- which guarantees that Congress will hold a straight up or down vote on any trade agreement the president negotiates.
When Congress grants TPA to a president, the authorizing legislation always includes negotiating objectives. This is a reminder to the president that he is acting as a delegate from Congress. The negotiating objectives themselves, however, often become the major point of contention. It was a battle over labor and environmental standards, for example, that prevented the House from granting President Clinton fast-track authority in 1998.
In the Senate, Democrat Max Baucus is already leading the charge for the renewal of TPA. He can expect significant Republican support, but may have some trouble corralling members of his own party. Democrat Sherrod Brown, whose power base in Northeast Ohio's Rust Belt remains upset about the 1994 NAFTA, has already expressed reservations. And since fast-track authorization is subject to filibuster, Obama may need all the votes he can get.
The battle in the House might be even more interesting. ... One can easily see an odd alliance in the House between progressive Democrats, who reflect the concerns of organized labor, and Tea Party Republicans, who don't want to give power away to the president. Even Rep. Darrell Issa, usually a free-trade advocate, might oppose it because of suspicions about the secretive nature of the TPP negotiations.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/06/the-odd-bipartisan-coalition-that-could-sink-obamas-free-trade-legacy/276938/
It is generally agreed that the Obama will not be able to conclude the TPP and TTIP negotiations unless Congress grants him Trade Promotion Authority (TPA) -- commonly known as "fast-track" -- which guarantees that Congress will hold a straight up or down vote on any trade agreement the president negotiates.
When Congress grants TPA to a president, the authorizing legislation always includes negotiating objectives. This is a reminder to the president that he is acting as a delegate from Congress. The negotiating objectives themselves, however, often become the major point of contention. It was a battle over labor and environmental standards, for example, that prevented the House from granting President Clinton fast-track authority in 1998.
In the Senate, Democrat Max Baucus is already leading the charge for the renewal of TPA. He can expect significant Republican support, but may have some trouble corralling members of his own party. Democrat Sherrod Brown, whose power base in Northeast Ohio's Rust Belt remains upset about the 1994 NAFTA, has already expressed reservations. And since fast-track authorization is subject to filibuster, Obama may need all the votes he can get.
The battle in the House might be even more interesting. ... One can easily see an odd alliance in the House between progressive Democrats, who reflect the concerns of organized labor, and Tea Party Republicans, who don't want to give power away to the president. Even Rep. Darrell Issa, usually a free-trade advocate, might oppose it because of suspicions about the secretive nature of the TPP negotiations.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/06/the-odd-bipartisan-coalition-that-could-sink-obamas-free-trade-legacy/276938/
I really don't think 'fast track authority' has a chance to get through the House. The tea party republicans have Boehner wrapped around their little fingers and they will oppose anything Obama brings to them. (Heck they even opposed the good ol' bombing of another country - something they would normally support enthusiastically - when Obama was the source, even though the MIC was pushing for it.) Consequently my opinion is the TPP will never be passed.
FDR: The world will either move forward toward unity and widely shared prosperity - or it will move apart.
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/f/franklind130498.html
BTW, if this is like every other trade agreement, it has to pass the House, not just the Senate.
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
Recommendations
0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):
182 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
The defenders on the TPP: "You don't know that" and "It's just speculation". Bullfuckingshit. [View all]
cali
Sep 2013
OP
I noticed that too. Here is a leaked draft of the TPP sister, the transatlantic version
BelgianMadCow
Sep 2013
#1
Yep. but I'm going to call the Zombie Apologists out on their crap every fucking time
cali
Sep 2013
#4
Zombie apologists. I like it! It drives me crazy around here, the way RW shit gets passed and we
Nay
Sep 2013
#33
It's all speculation until we figure Congress or Republicans or someone forced him into it.
merrily
Sep 2013
#14
Did the Framers contemplate Senate confirmation as a rubber stamp, after the fact?
merrily
Sep 2013
#15
The planned TPP is more evidence the corporations call the shots in our society....
JohnyCanuck
Sep 2013
#12
Perhaps some are that unintelligent and easily led, but I assure you I could mimic them and get work
Dragonfli
Sep 2013
#72
Just as I suspected. Some Obama supporters are satire impaired. It's something that cannot be cured.
AnotherMcIntosh
Sep 2013
#179
It was implied that if that person made that into an OP, it would get recs presumably from
Number23
Sep 2013
#182
I just tried but found I am forbidden to post in GD due to my answer to a nuisance poster
Dragonfli
Sep 2013
#173
I think that some try to make their lives easier by choosing to believe some things with blind faith
rhett o rick
Sep 2013
#119
I think they can discern. They use comparison of opposition to something terrible
rhett o rick
Sep 2013
#127
Human behavior doesn't change that much over the span of only a few decades.[n/t]
Maedhros
Sep 2013
#163
"1%" is, of course, a shorthand expression for the elite rich and the super-rich.
AnotherMcIntosh
Sep 2013
#54
And none of the trade agreements since NAFTA have had provision on labor rights and the environment.
pampango
Sep 2013
#44
The burden of proof is on Obama to reveal proposals & his position on same NOW!
Divernan
Sep 2013
#52
I think it is equally plausible that Obama is keeping provisions that House republicans will hate
pampango
Sep 2013
#56
once something is law it's hard to change. price gouge drug prices have to be stopped
Sunlei
Sep 2013
#45
At least TPP supporters are easy to spot. Anyone with a Wall St portfolio.
raouldukelives
Sep 2013
#47
Not everybody with a stock portfolio is in favor of the damned shitty trade deal.
Chan790
Sep 2013
#64
They may not be, but every dollar in the markets is a vote of confidence for more of the same.
raouldukelives
Sep 2013
#81
Well, I seriously beg to differ that RE specualtion is worse than Halliburton.
raouldukelives
Sep 2013
#172
They have no argument. Ridicule and the rofl emoticon is all they have. They must
rhett o rick
Sep 2013
#128
but nobody has be nominated..... Sure you can criticize people you dont want to nominated
Cryptoad
Sep 2013
#146
Actually it's because you are a libertarian isolationist Rand Paul worshiper -
Dragonfli
Sep 2013
#103
If only. I think it's a bad attempt to start a fight. I dont have anyone on my ignore list but
rhett o rick
Sep 2013
#116
Just because someone points a gun at your head doesnt mean they will shoot. Be patient and
rhett o rick
Sep 2013
#80
It's hard because "blind faith" is the easy way out. No thinking required. nm
rhett o rick
Sep 2013
#100
and if the "hair-on-fire" crew every gets something blocked by massive, embarrassing outcry
MisterP
Sep 2013
#89
Leo Gerard was just talking about this on the Ed show - Unions say "NO" to TPP!
NRaleighLiberal
Sep 2013
#111