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In reply to the discussion: The defenders on the TPP: "You don't know that" and "It's just speculation". Bullfuckingshit. [View all]Divernan
(15,480 posts)65. I think a simple majority of both chambers is unconstitutional.
You're correct, if the Fast Track Authority (which has expired) is extended, Obama can push this horrendous treaty through with a simple majority of both chambers. I want to point out that it has been strongly argued that an international trade agreement by any other name is a foreign treaty, and under the Constitution, we're talking a 2/3 majority Senate vote of approval on any foreign treaty.
If the President transmits a trade agreement to Congress, then the majority leaders of the House and Senate or their designees must introduce the implementing bill submitted by the President on the first day on which their House is in session. (19 U.S.C. § 2191(c)(1).) Senators and Representatives may not amend the Presidents bill, either in committee or in the
Senate or House. (19 U.S.C. § 2191(d).) The committees to which the bill has been referred have 45 days after its introduction to report the bill, or be automatically discharged, and each House must vote within 15 days after the bill is reported or discharged. (19 U.S.C. § 2191(e)(1).)
In the likely case that the bill is a revenue bill (as tariffs are revenues), the bill must originate in the House (see U.S. Const., art I, sec. 7), and after the Senate received the House-passed bill, the Finance Committee would have another 15 days to report the bill or be discharged, and then the Senate would have another 15 days to pass the bill. (19 U.S.C. § 2191(e)(2).) On the House and Senate floors, each Body can debate the bill for no more than 20 hours, and thus Senators cannot filibuster the bill and it will pass with a simple majority vote. (19 U.S.C. § 2191(f)-(g).) Thus the entire Congressional consideration could take no longer than 90 days.
In the likely case that the bill is a revenue bill (as tariffs are revenues), the bill must originate in the House (see U.S. Const., art I, sec. 7), and after the Senate received the House-passed bill, the Finance Committee would have another 15 days to report the bill or be discharged, and then the Senate would have another 15 days to pass the bill. (19 U.S.C. § 2191(e)(2).) On the House and Senate floors, each Body can debate the bill for no more than 20 hours, and thus Senators cannot filibuster the bill and it will pass with a simple majority vote. (19 U.S.C. § 2191(f)-(g).) Thus the entire Congressional consideration could take no longer than 90 days.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_track_%28trade%29
In the US, the treaty power is a coordinated effort between the Executive branch and the Senate. The President may form and negotiate, but the treaty must be advised and consented to by a two-thirds vote in the Senate. Only after the Senate approves the treaty can the President ratify it. Once a treaty is ratified, it becomes binding on all the states under the Supremacy Clause. While the United States House of Representatives does not vote on it at all, the requirement for Senate advice and consent to ratification makes it considerably more difficult in the US than in other democratic republics to rally enough political support for international treaties. Also, if implementation of the treaty requires the expenditure of funds, the House of Representatives may be able to block, or at least impede, such implementation by refusing to vote for the appropriation of the necessary funds.
In the US, the President usually submits a treaty to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee (SFRC) along with an accompanying resolution of ratification or accession. If the treaty and resolution receive favorable committee consideration (a committee vote in favor of ratification or accession) the treaty is then forwarded to the floor of the full U.S. Senate for such a vote
.In the US, the President usually submits a treaty to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee (SFRC) along with an accompanying resolution of ratification or accession. If the treaty and resolution receive favorable committee consideration (a committee vote in favor of ratification or accession) the treaty is then forwarded to the floor of the full U.S. Senate for such a vote
The treaty or legislation does not apply until it has been ratified. A multilateral agreement may provide that it will take effect upon its ratification by less than all of the signatories.[1] Even though such a treaty takes effect, it does not apply to signatories that have not ratified it. Accession has the same legal effect as ratification. Accession is a synonym for ratification for treaties already negotiated and signed by other states.[2] An example of a treaty to which the U.S. Senate did not advise and consent to ratification is the Treaty of Versailles, which was part of the resolution of the First World War.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratification
"Treaty" has a much more restricted meaning under the constitutional law of the United States. It is an international agreement that has received the "advice and consent" (in practice, just the consent) of two-thirds of the Senate and that has been ratified by the President. The Senate does not ratify treaties. When the Senate gives its consent, the President--acting as the chief diplomat of the United States--has discretion whether or not to ratify the instrument. Through the course of U. S. history, several instruments that have received the Senate's consent have nonetheless remained unratified. Those instruments are not in force for the United States, despite the Senate's consent to them.
http://www.asil.org/insigh10.cfm
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The defenders on the TPP: "You don't know that" and "It's just speculation". Bullfuckingshit. [View all]
cali
Sep 2013
OP
I noticed that too. Here is a leaked draft of the TPP sister, the transatlantic version
BelgianMadCow
Sep 2013
#1
Yep. but I'm going to call the Zombie Apologists out on their crap every fucking time
cali
Sep 2013
#4
Zombie apologists. I like it! It drives me crazy around here, the way RW shit gets passed and we
Nay
Sep 2013
#33
It's all speculation until we figure Congress or Republicans or someone forced him into it.
merrily
Sep 2013
#14
Did the Framers contemplate Senate confirmation as a rubber stamp, after the fact?
merrily
Sep 2013
#15
The planned TPP is more evidence the corporations call the shots in our society....
JohnyCanuck
Sep 2013
#12
Perhaps some are that unintelligent and easily led, but I assure you I could mimic them and get work
Dragonfli
Sep 2013
#72
Just as I suspected. Some Obama supporters are satire impaired. It's something that cannot be cured.
AnotherMcIntosh
Sep 2013
#179
It was implied that if that person made that into an OP, it would get recs presumably from
Number23
Sep 2013
#182
I just tried but found I am forbidden to post in GD due to my answer to a nuisance poster
Dragonfli
Sep 2013
#173
I think that some try to make their lives easier by choosing to believe some things with blind faith
rhett o rick
Sep 2013
#119
I think they can discern. They use comparison of opposition to something terrible
rhett o rick
Sep 2013
#127
Human behavior doesn't change that much over the span of only a few decades.[n/t]
Maedhros
Sep 2013
#163
"1%" is, of course, a shorthand expression for the elite rich and the super-rich.
AnotherMcIntosh
Sep 2013
#54
And none of the trade agreements since NAFTA have had provision on labor rights and the environment.
pampango
Sep 2013
#44
The burden of proof is on Obama to reveal proposals & his position on same NOW!
Divernan
Sep 2013
#52
I think it is equally plausible that Obama is keeping provisions that House republicans will hate
pampango
Sep 2013
#56
once something is law it's hard to change. price gouge drug prices have to be stopped
Sunlei
Sep 2013
#45
At least TPP supporters are easy to spot. Anyone with a Wall St portfolio.
raouldukelives
Sep 2013
#47
Not everybody with a stock portfolio is in favor of the damned shitty trade deal.
Chan790
Sep 2013
#64
They may not be, but every dollar in the markets is a vote of confidence for more of the same.
raouldukelives
Sep 2013
#81
Well, I seriously beg to differ that RE specualtion is worse than Halliburton.
raouldukelives
Sep 2013
#172
They have no argument. Ridicule and the rofl emoticon is all they have. They must
rhett o rick
Sep 2013
#128
but nobody has be nominated..... Sure you can criticize people you dont want to nominated
Cryptoad
Sep 2013
#146
Actually it's because you are a libertarian isolationist Rand Paul worshiper -
Dragonfli
Sep 2013
#103
If only. I think it's a bad attempt to start a fight. I dont have anyone on my ignore list but
rhett o rick
Sep 2013
#116
Just because someone points a gun at your head doesnt mean they will shoot. Be patient and
rhett o rick
Sep 2013
#80
It's hard because "blind faith" is the easy way out. No thinking required. nm
rhett o rick
Sep 2013
#100
and if the "hair-on-fire" crew every gets something blocked by massive, embarrassing outcry
MisterP
Sep 2013
#89
Leo Gerard was just talking about this on the Ed show - Unions say "NO" to TPP!
NRaleighLiberal
Sep 2013
#111