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In reply to the discussion: So it turns out that pro-gun proponents don't really support background checks after all [View all]rrneck
(17,671 posts)100. Your response is innaccurate.
You specifically said the declining crime rate made expanded checks unnecessary
This is what I said:
Crime is on the decline and for my money the political will to enact background check legislation is not only weak, but too precious to waste on a problem that should be solved within the more civilized purview of liberal ideology.
Like I said, crime is on the wane. The cause doesn't matter. What does matter is that since crime is going down the political will to do something about a problem that is diminishing will be weak, and political capital doesn't come cheap.
There exists plenty of data to show that self defense accounts for a very small portion of gun deaths.
Like I said, data about what people didn't do because of what they thought might happen cannot be obtained, and ignoring that fact is a defense of ideology at the expense of people.
The records do not have to be keep for the rest of your life. Are they now? No.
From your link: Sales Records: FFLs are required to maintain records of the acquisition and sale of firearms indefinitely.
They can only go to a gun dealer once every year and the store doesn't have to account for weapons that have gone missing.
Surprise inspections inside people's homes once a year is once a year too many, and that's assuming that it will stay only once a year. Note that this paragraph is contradictory. You have offered a solution to allay my concerns about civil rights abuses by telling me that your system won't actually work. That means you will allow an incursion into people's civil rights for a regulatory scheme that doesn't work. Why? Because you are defending ideology instead of people.
This is what I said:
Crime is on the decline and for my money the political will to enact background check legislation is not only weak, but too precious to waste on a problem that should be solved within the more civilized purview of liberal ideology.
Like I said, crime is on the wane. The cause doesn't matter. What does matter is that since crime is going down the political will to do something about a problem that is diminishing will be weak, and political capital doesn't come cheap.
There exists plenty of data to show that self defense accounts for a very small portion of gun deaths.
Like I said, data about what people didn't do because of what they thought might happen cannot be obtained, and ignoring that fact is a defense of ideology at the expense of people.
The records do not have to be keep for the rest of your life. Are they now? No.
From your link: Sales Records: FFLs are required to maintain records of the acquisition and sale of firearms indefinitely.
They can only go to a gun dealer once every year and the store doesn't have to account for weapons that have gone missing.
Q: To whom does an FFL report stolen or lost firearms?
A theft or loss of firearms must be reported to your local police as well as to ATF within 48 hours after the discovery. Licensees should notify ATF on the 24-hour, 7 days a week toll free line at 1-800-800-3855 and by preparing and submitting ATF Form 3310.11, Federal Firearms Licensee Theft/Loss Report.
Theft or loss of NFA firearms should also be reported to the NFA Branch immediately upon discovery.
[18 U.S.C. 923(g)(6), 27 CFR 478.39 and 479.141]
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/licensees-conduct-of-business.html#report-theft-loss
A theft or loss of firearms must be reported to your local police as well as to ATF within 48 hours after the discovery. Licensees should notify ATF on the 24-hour, 7 days a week toll free line at 1-800-800-3855 and by preparing and submitting ATF Form 3310.11, Federal Firearms Licensee Theft/Loss Report.
Theft or loss of NFA firearms should also be reported to the NFA Branch immediately upon discovery.
[18 U.S.C. 923(g)(6), 27 CFR 478.39 and 479.141]
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/licensees-conduct-of-business.html#report-theft-loss
Surprise inspections inside people's homes once a year is once a year too many, and that's assuming that it will stay only once a year. Note that this paragraph is contradictory. You have offered a solution to allay my concerns about civil rights abuses by telling me that your system won't actually work. That means you will allow an incursion into people's civil rights for a regulatory scheme that doesn't work. Why? Because you are defending ideology instead of people.
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So it turns out that pro-gun proponents don't really support background checks after all [View all]
BainsBane
Sep 2013
OP
I've heard these pro-gun folks claim that most states require background checks.........
rdharma
Sep 2013
#1
Yes. Can you explain it in you own words because it is not clear you understand it.
hack89
Sep 2013
#25
But they can also do that in the parking lot, or in their driveway, or in their house
hack89
Sep 2013
#79
You have the figure of private sales vs. FFL dealer sales that take place at gun shows?
rdharma
Sep 2013
#113
It gives you an idea of the ratio of professional to private sales in the show. nt
Mojorabbit
Sep 2013
#120
And how about the parking lot? And those guys walking aroung with a gun that has a price tag on it
rdharma
Sep 2013
#124
Why go to a show when there's even more guns in Uncle Henry's weekly swap-and-sell paper?
sir pball
Sep 2013
#127
We all know that there is one type of sale that does not require a background check
hack89
Sep 2013
#12
Only 99.2% or so are law abiding, but folks love them some bias, unless of course
The Straight Story
Sep 2013
#23
I've been to enough gun shows to know that those selling don't give a shit about background checks.
Gravitycollapse
Sep 2013
#28
It is virtually impossible to convict someone of illegal sale of a firearm...
Gravitycollapse
Sep 2013
#32
How would you prosecute an illegal transfer to a felon without chain of custody documentation? nt
rrneck
Sep 2013
#39
"What you are really saying is that the lives that could be saved aren't worth the bother."
rrneck
Sep 2013
#86
You specifically said the declining crime rate made expanded checks unnecessary
BainsBane
Sep 2013
#89
I don't care what the other two threads say. You made a blanket statement. It was wrong.
cherokeeprogressive
Sep 2013
#48
So you read that to mean cherokeeprogressive doesn't support background checks
BainsBane
Sep 2013
#49
"pro-gun proponents don't really support background checks after all"
cherokeeprogressive
Sep 2013
#50
I don't speak for anyone else. You made a blanket indictment. It was wrong.
cherokeeprogressive
Sep 2013
#52
"...the man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest" - P. Simon
Eleanors38
Sep 2013
#121
I have engaged them on the "grassroots" argument, too. But the NRA label is there
CTyankee
Sep 2013
#101
Just because I support something doesn't mean I'll give it away for nothing.
badtoworse
Sep 2013
#80