General Discussion

sir pball

(5,340 posts)

130. I generally don't use the term "x-sales loophole" either.

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 09:37 AM

Sep 2013

I lump them all under the "unregulated private sales"; going with "gun show loophole" or "internet sales loophole" can confuse the matter and promote bad legislation. I personally know some people who honestly believe that all sales at gunshows are unregulated and that all unregulated sales are only at gun shows, and that seems to be the larger meme as well - which results in IMO idiotic laws like Colorado's old one requiring BGCs on all checks at gun shows...but not on other private sales.

For the record I advocate for Every. Single. Transfer. (gun show, local paper, internet, yes even family) to be not only checked but done through an FFL, on a Form 4473 - recorded to create a chain of custody, should a crime gun need to be traced.

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So it turns out that pro-gun proponents don't really support background checks after all [View all] BainsBane Sep 2013 OP

I've heard these pro-gun folks claim that most states require background checks......... rdharma Sep 2013 #1

They are doing it right now in both linked threads BainsBane Sep 2013 #3

But there is also no background check for private sales not at gun shows. PoliticAverse Sep 2013 #6

You are misrepresenting what we are saying hack89 Sep 2013 #13

Not true ........ at least it wasn't that way in Colorado until recently. rdharma Sep 2013 #14

That is exactly what I just told you. hack89 Sep 2013 #16

No. Private sales are NOT private sales regardless of location. rdharma Sep 2013 #18

What do you think is the gun show loophole hack89 Sep 2013 #19

Exactly what was stated in that link I gave you. rdharma Sep 2013 #22

Yes. Can you explain it in you own words because it is not clear you understand it. hack89 Sep 2013 #25

You're just being obtuse..... rdharma Sep 2013 #33

But they can also do that in the parking lot, or in their driveway, or in their house hack89 Sep 2013 #79

What if they are NOT "large numbers" but are just a few guns? rl6214 Sep 2013 #83

I'm waiting for the definition of "large numbers" rdharma Sep 2013 #92

You cannot make a living selling guns - it has more to do with the frequency. hack89 Sep 2013 #103

Where is that "once a month = dealer" law? rdharma Sep 2013 #104

Here are some legal definitions. hack89 Sep 2013 #106

Might I ask, how DO the states that require background checks at gun shows rl6214 Sep 2013 #82

The "honor system" rdharma Sep 2013 #88

No professional dealer is going to risk their livelyhood Mojorabbit Sep 2013 #109

You have the figure of private sales vs. FFL dealer sales that take place at gun shows? rdharma Sep 2013 #113

Have you ever been to one? Mojorabbit Sep 2013 #114

So you can tell the FFL dealer from the Private Seller/Dealer........... rdharma Sep 2013 #117

It gives you an idea of the ratio of professional to private sales in the show. nt Mojorabbit Sep 2013 #120

And how about the parking lot? And those guys walking aroung with a gun that has a price tag on it rdharma Sep 2013 #124

You asked a questions about proportions and I answered Mojorabbit Sep 2013 #125

Fair enough. rdharma Sep 2013 #126

Yall are technical as shit. It makes you look desperate in your arguments. morningfog Sep 2013 #29

I support UBCs. My state has had them for years. hack89 Sep 2013 #30

I can't see how you can say that of the replies. They are facts. Mojorabbit Sep 2013 #110

The problem is it had nothing to do with gun shows Recursion Sep 2013 #42

Why go to a yard sale when there is a MUCH better selection at a gun show. rdharma Sep 2013 #45

Why go to a show when there's even more guns in Uncle Henry's weekly swap-and-sell paper? sir pball Sep 2013 #127

Thanks for proving my point! rdharma Sep 2013 #128

I generally don't use the term "x-sales loophole" either. sir pball Sep 2013 #130

Because using "gun show" in this context is misleading. krispos42 Sep 2013 #115

Private "dealers" do not require background checks at gun shows. rdharma Sep 2013 #116

I doubt it's that high. krispos42 Sep 2013 #118

Here it is. krispos42 Sep 2013 #119

I just wish we people would call the NRA for what it is, EVIL. hrmjustin Sep 2013 #2

Thank you BainsBane Sep 2013 #4

+100 nt LiberalEsto Sep 2013 #5

I do, every chance I get! etherealtruth Sep 2013 #9

Redundantly redundant post by poster. pintobean Sep 2013 #7

That group will say and do anything to protect gunz etherealtruth Sep 2013 #8

... Robb Sep 2013 #10

Yep, that's exactly it BainsBane Sep 2013 #11

We all know that there is one type of sale that does not require a background check hack89 Sep 2013 #12

some are very dense Duckhunter935 Sep 2013 #15

The myth of the law-abiding gun owner mwrguy Sep 2013 #17

Because the majority of gun owners are law breakers? hack89 Sep 2013 #20

Only 99.2% or so are law abiding, but folks love them some bias, unless of course The Straight Story Sep 2013 #23

Yay for math! Decaffeinated Sep 2013 #27

The loophole is private sale or transfer. Gravitycollapse Sep 2013 #21

And it is not a loophole. ManiacJoe Sep 2013 #26

I've been to enough gun shows to know that those selling don't give a shit about background checks. Gravitycollapse Sep 2013 #28

That is what happens when existing laws go unenforced. ManiacJoe Sep 2013 #31

It is virtually impossible to convict someone of illegal sale of a firearm... Gravitycollapse Sep 2013 #32

Many folks have that belief. ManiacJoe Sep 2013 #41

What makes you think I ever supported universal background checks? nt rrneck Sep 2013 #24

I don't know that I did think that BainsBane Sep 2013 #34

You've made another hyperbolic leap of logic rrneck Sep 2013 #35

What registry? BainsBane Sep 2013 #36

I don't think the NRA has a list of rrneck Sep 2013 #37

They've got a whopping database BainsBane Sep 2013 #38

How would you prosecute an illegal transfer to a felon without chain of custody documentation? nt rrneck Sep 2013 #39

I'm not sure BainsBane Sep 2013 #40

That's an interesting question. rrneck Sep 2013 #43

Why do guns occupy a different cultural space? BainsBane Sep 2013 #44

Because guns are made to kill. rrneck Sep 2013 #54

That is all the more reason they should be subject to checks BainsBane Sep 2013 #55

I even italicised it. rrneck Sep 2013 #56

statistically BainsBane Sep 2013 #57

Statistics are useless rrneck Sep 2013 #58

What did you want to know when you asked who they killed? BainsBane Sep 2013 #59

This is just an internet message board. Who gives a shit about percentages. rrneck Sep 2013 #60

No, I don't recognize that good has been done with guns BainsBane Sep 2013 #61

Like I said.. rrneck Sep 2013 #62

Look at Saristaka's thread in the gungeon BainsBane Sep 2013 #63

I posted in it. rrneck Sep 2013 #64

He is saying there is going to be no requirement for federal registration BainsBane Sep 2013 #65

It appears to me rrneck Sep 2013 #66

Look, you can set up a system where you feed in the info BainsBane Sep 2013 #67

Fine by me. rrneck Sep 2013 #68

Throw the fucker in jail BainsBane Sep 2013 #69

Great. rrneck Sep 2013 #70

They get a confirmation number and receipt to keep BainsBane Sep 2013 #71

The government cannot possibly prosecute anyone rrneck Sep 2013 #72

Well, what you're prosecuting is the absence of a check BainsBane Sep 2013 #73

Yes, the absence of a check, rrneck Sep 2013 #74

The political will is a function of you BainsBane Sep 2013 #75

"What you are really saying is that the lives that could be saved aren't worth the bother." rrneck Sep 2013 #86

You specifically said the declining crime rate made expanded checks unnecessary BainsBane Sep 2013 #89

Your response is innaccurate. rrneck Sep 2013 #100

Um, you have that backwards BainsBane Sep 2013 #102

So, rrneck Sep 2013 #107

statistics Niceguy1 Sep 2013 #78

Properly applied, yes they are. nt rrneck Sep 2013 #81

I cannot post in that thread because on ONE question I asked in that forum but rl6214 Sep 2013 #84

How do background checks constitute a registry? BainsBane Sep 2013 #93

I never said it did. rl6214 Sep 2013 #123

Your subject line is a misrepresentation of reality. cherokeeprogressive Sep 2013 #46

Good for you BainsBane Sep 2013 #47

I don't care what the other two threads say. You made a blanket statement. It was wrong. cherokeeprogressive Sep 2013 #48

So you read that to mean cherokeeprogressive doesn't support background checks BainsBane Sep 2013 #49

"pro-gun proponents don't really support background checks after all" cherokeeprogressive Sep 2013 #50

I'll also note that few of the people BainsBane Sep 2013 #51

I don't speak for anyone else. You made a blanket indictment. It was wrong. cherokeeprogressive Sep 2013 #52

This is pointless BainsBane Sep 2013 #53

Again, we agree! Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #87

So you admit you were not being truthful BainsBane Sep 2013 #95

"Bwah-ha-ha-ha," he said to da Inquisitor. Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #97

I'll take that as a yes BainsBane Sep 2013 #99

"...the man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest" - P. Simon Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #121

I'm bored with the games BainsBane Sep 2013 #122

Well, you keep posting replies. Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #129

Gun nuts don't support ANY gun laws... Ohio Joe Sep 2013 #76

So I have discovered. BainsBane Sep 2013 #77

I have come to the same conclusion as you, BB... CTyankee Sep 2013 #96

Oh no BainsBane Sep 2013 #98

I have engaged them on the "grassroots" argument, too. But the NRA label is there CTyankee Sep 2013 #101

Just because I support something doesn't mean I'll give it away for nothing. badtoworse Sep 2013 #80

You are comical! Sissyk Sep 2013 #85

watch yourself clffrdjk Sep 2013 #90

Ah! Case in point. nt Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #94

Now, if I had said that I would have been MIRTed to the Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #91

This may help explain pintobean Sep 2013 #105

fuck all that we need to get rid of guns period gopiscrap Sep 2013 #108

Well, I was trying to compromise BainsBane Sep 2013 #111

An honest gun controller. hack89 Sep 2013 #112