Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

sibelian

(7,804 posts)
118. It's not water vapour. It's clouds.
Fri Sep 20, 2013, 04:23 PM
Sep 2013

Clouds are what happens when water vapour condenses into a white mist of tiny water droplets. Water vapour is entirely transparent. Clouds aren't.

Clouds expand through Brownian motion when their starting density is unusually high through having been formed at high speed from a smallish nozzle, like an aircraft jet.

Kind of like dry ice machines. You'll notice that the white misty stuff coming out of dry ice machines expands, but remains white and misty? That's water vapour condensed into a mist of tiny droplets, in a cloud, expanding to fill the available space, through Brownian motion, having been formed through a sudden drop in temperature via the release of a lot of cold carbond dioxide gas.

What do you mean "contrails dissipate"? It depends on the air temperature that the contrail finds itself in. If the air is cold, the droplets do not evaporate as there isn't enough available energy to cause such evaporation. If the air is warm, the clouds evaporate back into water vapour.

This is all very simple thermodynamics.

Didn't you think to go and check up on some simple thermodynamics before you started telling everybody about thermodynamics? Because the behaviour of vapour systems is governed by thermodynamics. And you obviously know absolutely nothing whatsoever about any of it.

I do know about it, because I've studied thermodynamics.

You may take it from me that there is absolutely nothing untoward or peculiar about the observable behaviour of the water vapour coming out of aircraft jets. You are seeing clouds, formed rapidly by the stream of water vapour particles cooling down at high speed and condensing into tiny water droplets, in conditions favourable to such behaviour. In conditions not favourable to such behaviour, i.e. warm air, it doesn't happen. Rather, the water vapour remains vapour. That's it.

There is something else that I think you should know. Even if the stuff coming out the back of aircraft jets really was some creepy chemical rather than water vapour, known physics does not describe any mechanism whereby this chemical could, in it's vapourised or atomised state, behave in any way that is dissimilar to a different cloud of something different, like, say, water vapour. Even if it were a heavier gas than water vapour (which would most likely make it visibly sink rather than float in the air) it would still have to obey the same ordinary laws of physics as every other vapourised or atomised chemical and would expand at pretty much the same rate as anything else through Brownian motion. There is no known attractive force between particles of any chemical that lend an increased "clumpiness" in comparison with other chemicals, over the scales that you would need to be proposing in order to differentiate the behaviour of your theoretical substance from, say, water vapour.

There is no chemical that ever could be "clumpier" than any other in a vapourised state. There are some that are slightly heavier, and some that "expand" slightly more slowly than others but none that have the special power of remaining clumpy in conditions where any other ordinary vapourised substance would dissipate entirely because that's not how vapours or clouds behave. That phenomenon would require a fifth force. (If you have discovered a fifth force, you need to tell some physicists. They'll be pleased.)

What do you mean they cause hazy days? How do you know the day wasn't going to be hazy anyway?

How do you explain "chemtrails" in clear blue skies, that are clearly not causing hazy days, which phenomenon I have observed quite frequently?

What are you talking about?

Why am I wasting my time on this complete nonsense?

Why are YOU wasting YOUR time on this complete nonsense?

Isn't there something important in your life? Something special and meaningful that makes you feel that your existence matters? Something beautful? Something serious? Something truthful?

Anything?

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Why do you care? JanMichael Sep 2013 #1
Perhaps it's because such nonsense is believed by so many. MineralMan Sep 2013 #4
The big snake oil buy in is religion. JEB Sep 2013 #88
Especially fundamentalists. Archae Sep 2013 #89
Anti-Woo Threads - LIHOP or MIHOP? leftstreet Sep 2013 #5
They plan them Berlum Sep 2013 #14
That's funny pintobean Sep 2013 #18
!!! zappaman Sep 2013 #68
it feeds their own denial Precisely Sep 2013 #31
Denial? pintobean Sep 2013 #33
What's happening Precisely Sep 2013 #45
What is happening? maddezmom Sep 2013 #66
EarlG showed that poster precisely where the door is. pintobean Sep 2013 #98
Whoopsie Hekate Sep 2013 #119
Awesome...nt SidDithers Sep 2013 #122
I too, must ask... zappaman Sep 2013 #70
If we knew what we were denying pintobean Sep 2013 #85
What's Happening CreekDog Sep 2013 #92
It's a nice distraction from real issues, to 'worry' about what other people believe. And now sabrina 1 Sep 2013 #96
Speaking of pathetic.... zappaman Sep 2013 #115
There is one glaring exception to what you wrote nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #13
I can't understand it either, but it seems to be the trademark of this poster. Sheldon Cooper Sep 2013 #21
What harm is there? TroglodyteScholar Sep 2013 #53
No frankly, I don't. Sheldon Cooper Sep 2013 #87
well then you need to change your screen name CreekDog Sep 2013 #94
I am not attempting to control anyone's thoughts TroglodyteScholar Sep 2013 #112
Nailed it... SidDithers Sep 2013 #124
Believing in falsehoods is harmful. To whom? sabrina 1 Sep 2013 #99
Total bullshit doesn't belong in serious discussions. pintobean Sep 2013 #101
So why was this OP not shut down? sabrina 1 Sep 2013 #116
Why should it be? pintobean Sep 2013 #120
Jesus, this one is obvious: because people act on what they believe. enki23 Sep 2013 #102
But look up, in the sky, with your own eyes! TroglodyteScholar Sep 2013 #117
To all of us. jeff47 Sep 2013 #127
Yes, what harm is there in rejecting science and believing in bullshit? n/t zappaman Sep 2013 #71
And what business is it of anyone what other people choose to waste their time on? sabrina 1 Sep 2013 #100
Isn't that kind of what you are doing? HappyMe Sep 2013 #107
Of course it is. zappaman Sep 2013 #109
No! sabrina 1 Sep 2013 #114
China is cleaning up their coal plants.... Junkdrawer Sep 2013 #23
when people believe BS nonsense it affects all of our lives negatively CreekDog Sep 2013 #91
Because they look up Precisely Sep 2013 #2
Ooga Booga! Vapor trails from aircraft. MineralMan Sep 2013 #6
OOga Booga! Precisely Sep 2013 #10
How can you see a "chemtrail?" Just curious. Dash87 Sep 2013 #36
"which is impossible, considering they aren't real" Precisely Sep 2013 #43
Because the burden of proof lies on the claims of Chemtrails. Dash87 Sep 2013 #54
Don't know what claims you mean Precisely Sep 2013 #57
It's common sense. Dash87 Sep 2013 #95
You know, you don't have to sit there and take it!!! snooper2 Sep 2013 #9
LOL! TroglodyteScholar Sep 2013 #35
I know it's supposed to be funny sibelian Sep 2013 #106
I could quote PT Barnum or cite the number of Republican voters... Xithras Sep 2013 #3
If conspiracy threads belong in CS, 'conspiracy bitching' threads do too whatchamacallit Sep 2013 #7
^^^^ THIS! nt laundry_queen Sep 2013 #103
Nope... SidDithers Sep 2013 #125
It's déjà vu all over again. pintobean Sep 2013 #128
Whaaaaa! zappaman Sep 2013 #129
Maybe it's because their brains have been addled by...CHEMTRAILS! randome Sep 2013 #8
yep. just the usual Precisely Sep 2013 #12
Exactly. The usual flight patterns. MineralMan Sep 2013 #15
You sure are desperate to deny what's right in front of your eyes petronius Sep 2013 #26
Sheesh! I never thought of that. MineralMan Sep 2013 #27
It's the game they play, Iterate Sep 2013 #39
X in the top left square. MineralMan Sep 2013 #41
I'll fill in the rest, may I? Iterate Sep 2013 #52
LOL! MineralMan Sep 2013 #67
Curved paths Precisely Sep 2013 #32
Sometimes they're even discontinuous - starting at one spot and stopping petronius Sep 2013 #46
Yep Precisely Sep 2013 #55
I too used to called people who disagreed with my unsupported premises, "cowed public". LanternWaste Sep 2013 #97
Well, that's it then. HappyMe Sep 2013 #49
So you can't see the picture? Precisely Sep 2013 #29
Oh, I see the picture just fine. MineralMan Sep 2013 #44
If you are familiar Precisely Sep 2013 #50
Not at all. Take a look: Dash87 Sep 2013 #59
Interesting Precisely Sep 2013 #76
Holy crap!!! sarisataka Sep 2013 #81
It's worse than we thought! Hitler's still alive and attacking us every day! Dash87 Sep 2013 #84
I knew that sonofabich got out of Berlin! sarisataka Sep 2013 #86
Your photo shows a holding pattern in a crosswind. mn9driver Sep 2013 #93
I don't know why people are complaining about it. NuclearDem Sep 2013 #11
Well, I'm guessing those trails aren't pure water vapor. cherokeeprogressive Sep 2013 #16
Technically, you are having a "Forbidden Thought" Berlum Sep 2013 #17
Water is a chemical. FarCenter Sep 2013 #24
Water doesn't expand Precisely Sep 2013 #30
Tell that to *water vapor*... TroglodyteScholar Sep 2013 #38
Water vapor dissipates Precisely Sep 2013 #51
Get yourself a spray bottle TroglodyteScholar Sep 2013 #62
Look up Precisely Sep 2013 #69
There's this invisible influence... TroglodyteScholar Sep 2013 #74
I don't deny Precisely Sep 2013 #80
So here's what you need to do.... Icicle Sep 2013 #105
It's not water vapour. It's clouds. sibelian Sep 2013 #118
Go boil a kettle and then tell me that. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Sep 2013 #108
Simple way to deal with this. Unkle Jacks Chemtrail remover...... wandy Sep 2013 #19
My dad was sure convinced... procon Sep 2013 #20
It sure was unfortunate for your Dad. Archae Sep 2013 #25
He probably was familiar Precisely Sep 2013 #37
But he still knew the science procon Sep 2013 #104
It's because of the chemicals "they" put in the air. n/t hughee99 Sep 2013 #22
I had a person explain to me that those streaks in the sky were chemtrails Turbineguy Sep 2013 #28
I had someone many moons ago tell me... BKH70041 Sep 2013 #34
lol...nt Jesus Malverde Sep 2013 #40
AWESOME! TroglodyteScholar Sep 2013 #42
Apathy Gas..... MineralMan Sep 2013 #47
Joss Whedon used "chemtrail" stories in "Firefly..." Archae Sep 2013 #63
'Firefly' was mostly fiction, but I think the part about Miranda is actually true petronius Sep 2013 #72
Seems to work Precisely Sep 2013 #60
Apathy Gas = Television Scurrilous Sep 2013 #61
You are so cruel and evil. sibelian Sep 2013 #111
What is rarely discussed is that contrails create weather. Jesus Malverde Sep 2013 #48
Yes Precisely Sep 2013 #64
Dude's Crazier than a shit house rat. n/t Agnosticsherbet Sep 2013 #56
Yup a quick google show he has bought into a lot of nutty things and he is a homophobe to boot. maddezmom Sep 2013 #58
Why? zappaman Sep 2013 #65
Perhaps its IOCANE powder ... ever think of THAT???? JoePhilly Sep 2013 #73
well... zappaman Sep 2013 #75
This whole thread is a waste of time. icymist Sep 2013 #77
LOOK UP! They're spraying us hard today. ileus Sep 2013 #78
Airplane exhaust is water vapor and CO2 MrNJ Sep 2013 #79
My mom was telling me about chemtrails the other day ellie Sep 2013 #82
I look out my window and see the house of one of those who believes this shit madokie Sep 2013 #83
This is almost as stupid as "rapture pet insurance"................ NM_Birder Sep 2013 #90
That was a hilarious joke to poke at rapture people sakabatou Sep 2013 #126
Like any other conspiracy theory, it can never be disproved. sibelian Sep 2013 #110
Now we have moved them to down here with e-cigs The Straight Story Sep 2013 #113
Best DU chemtrail thread ever... SidDithers Sep 2013 #121
Oh, I miss SpiralHawk.... zappaman Sep 2013 #123
sorry locking azurnoir Sep 2013 #130
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Why are people still stup...»Reply #118