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Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)

215. Nowadays folks like to play at edginess, rebelliousness, and being out front. Paine lived it.

Reply to WillyT (Reply #12)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 01:08 PM

Sep 2013

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Wow... George Orwell Would Be Proud... The "Free Flow" Of Information Act... [View all] WillyT Sep 2013 OP

Oh, DiFi. Is there anything you won't do to piss off liberals? NuclearDem Sep 2013 #1

Not just liberals. woo me with science Sep 2013 #3

Yep - ya beat me to it! polichick Sep 2013 #54

She's a goddamned menace to society pscot Sep 2013 #6

With Democrats like her, who needs Republicans? LuvNewcastle Sep 2013 #7

I can't understand why Dems keep voting for her FiveGoodMen Sep 2013 #16

Because LA is not close enough to San Fran nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #58

So the Dems in LA are as Right-Wing-Worthless as she is? FiveGoodMen Sep 2013 #61

No, they just did not have her in city government nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #69

Post removed Post removed Sep 2013 #180

It was the same pattern in the 2012 primary, according to our Secretary of State petronius Sep 2013 #181

Because Republicans vote for her and that is how she gets elected. JDPriestly Sep 2013 #82

Don't the republicans have a republican to vote for? FiveGoodMen Sep 2013 #85

A lot of them vote for Feinstein. Whether a plausible Republican runs depends on the election. JDPriestly Sep 2013 #132

Lol. It's California. No. Xithras Sep 2013 #133

Republicans do NOT vote for her. Xithras Sep 2013 #130

MONEY! BillyRibs Sep 2013 #195

Damned liberals, always defending and protecting the Constitution, even though merrily Sep 2013 #27

Shit, she doesn't give a fig about liberals. lark Sep 2013 #55

+++++++++++++++ n/t 2banon Sep 2013 #111

The very worst of the Democratic party embodied in one Senator. n/t Egalitarian Thug Sep 2013 #2

Durbin has turned out to be a bit of a dick too. Fuddnik Sep 2013 #17

On military/intel/foreign policy, Durbin is a disappointment leveymg Sep 2013 #29

Really? merrily Sep 2013 #74

How do you mean, "Really?" leveymg Sep 2013 #76

I mean I'm surprised. merrily Sep 2013 #115

Just one? Have you checked the yeas and nays on the Patriot Act? merrily Sep 2013 #32

"Stop us before we subpoena again." questionseverything Sep 2013 #162

I don't think the new bill will stop them. merrily Sep 2013 #166

Not the only one by far, but pretty close to the perfect representation of a thoroughly, blatantly Egalitarian Thug Sep 2013 #183

no two others come to mind nvme Sep 2013 #206

I didn't mean to imply in any way that she is alone or even the worst. Egalitarian Thug Sep 2013 #213

Gee. Liberal Democrat stalwarts would rather protect the Banksters, Warmongers and Traitors... Octafish Sep 2013 #4

This deals with PRIVILEGES not rights accorded to journalists. geek tragedy Sep 2013 #5

Why are you here? Enthusiast Sep 2013 #10

Why can't you articulate an intelligent argument against what I just said? geek tragedy Sep 2013 #11

Ya See... THAT Was A Major Point Of The First Amendment... The Government Does NOT Get To Decide... WillyT Sep 2013 #12

So, journalist shield laws are unconstitutional then. geek tragedy Sep 2013 #14

From the article at the OP... WillyT Sep 2013 #18

Shield protections are not granted by the constitution. Otherwise there would be no need geek tragedy Sep 2013 #24

Freedom of the press is in the Constitution. merrily Sep 2013 #35

That doesn't contradict what I'm saying nt geek tragedy Sep 2013 #40

You are merely wrong about that. merrily Sep 2013 #43

Some Of What I Worry About Here... WillyT Sep 2013 #80

I'm having trouble finding a copy of the bill as it passed the committee. Do you have a link? nt geek tragedy Sep 2013 #87

Actually, found it: geek tragedy Sep 2013 #99

If I'm Reading This Right... DiFi Introduced An Amendment To Schumer's Bill... WillyT Sep 2013 #107

They compromised--they didn't accept DiFi's amendment completely. geek tragedy Sep 2013 #109

"While many Mainstream Media outlets support the law" Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #146

The point of the thread is GOVERNMENT certification of journalism, not need/not-need of shield. nt Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2013 #191

Wrong. A person becomes a journalist when they report, not when the GOVERNMENT accepts them. nt Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2013 #190

So anyone who basically paints a 'J' on his or her head is a journalist. randome Sep 2013 #15

Well... The Crown In England Certainly Didn't Consider Paine A Journalist, They Considered Him... WillyT Sep 2013 #23

Point. But that's what courts are for -to 'help' us make the determination. randome Sep 2013 #25

Funny. He got fired from his U.S. government job for revealing secrets. merrily Sep 2013 #46

Reductio ad absurdum. merrily Sep 2013 #37

Nowadays folks like to play at edginess, rebelliousness, and being out front. Paine lived it. Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #215

Actually, Enthusiast did articulate an intelligent argument against what you just posted. merrily Sep 2013 #95

There's the crux: "not only people the GOVERNMENT considers journalists". Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2013 #189

Cut that crap out Stuckinthebush Sep 2013 #210

You have the right to remain silent. Fuddnik Sep 2013 #20

What are you talking about? Media shield laws keep journalist out of jail. merrily Sep 2013 #34

Those are protections created by the government, not granted geek tragedy Sep 2013 #36

Again, freedom of the press is in the Constitution. merrily Sep 2013 #41

Which do you favor? geek tragedy Sep 2013 #44

I favor the rule of law, which means abiding by the Constitution. merrily Sep 2013 #49

The constitution doesn'texempt journalists from cooperating with geek tragedy Sep 2013 #51

The Constitution doesn't permit government to pick and choose among journalists, either. merrily Sep 2013 #59

No, it doesn't allow them to pick and choose among journalists. geek tragedy Sep 2013 #62

No it doesn't allow government to treat journalists differently from non journalists. merrily Sep 2013 #72

So, again, I ask you: geek tragedy Sep 2013 #77

I answered that already. Besides, it is not a matter of what I prefer. Its the CONSTITUTION. merrily Sep 2013 #84

That is not a question that is relevant to the issue of freedom of the press. sabrina 1 Sep 2013 #177

What do those choices have to do with who and who is not a journalist? whopis01 Sep 2013 #227

Who should determine who are nvme Sep 2013 #207

Yeah, I support allowing everyone to refuse to testify against other people. 2banon Sep 2013 #123

Decisions on 1st Amend. privilege are accorded deference by the courts, as would an enumerated leveymg Sep 2013 #38

What compelling interest does government have in deciding who is a "real" journalist"? merrily Sep 2013 #42

That question would have to be determined on a case-by-case basis. Congress shouldn't legislate leveymg Sep 2013 #48

Exactly. Congress should not decide who is a real journalist and who isn't. merrily Sep 2013 #50

I'd like to amend my original response: None of the three branches of government should be merrily Sep 2013 #88

Courts have refused to create such protections. geek tragedy Sep 2013 #45

There have been many federal cases on this issue. There is 1st Amend case law. leveymg Sep 2013 #56

So, then a federal journalist shield law would be unconstitutional and an assault geek tragedy Sep 2013 #65

No, just an overly-restrictive one, like DiFi and Durbin's leveymg Sep 2013 #67

How can you have a journalist shield law without bothering geek tragedy Sep 2013 #68

Same reason you have Freedom of the Press without defining the Press. When you start leveymg Sep 2013 #73

So, so long as the definition isn't overly exclusive, the government CAN define geek tragedy Sep 2013 #75

No. If the gov't wants to provide explicit exemptions to other laws, it may do so as long as leveymg Sep 2013 #86

This law doesn't restrict anyone's freedom. It expands the rights for some, leaves geek tragedy Sep 2013 #89

You'll need to demonstrate that by excerpting present law and demonstrating who's rights leveymg Sep 2013 #98

Here's the statute: geek tragedy Sep 2013 #103

Do a line by line of Sec. 11 Definitions. leveymg Sep 2013 #114

No one is currently afforded the protections of this bill. geek tragedy Sep 2013 #118

Nonsensical to suggest that government should decide who is a real journalist. merrily Sep 2013 #119

Yes, you've gone on the record stating that reporters shouldn't be exempted geek tragedy Sep 2013 #120

I didn't, but you've gone on record stating that the Constitution should be ignored. I disagree. merrily Sep 2013 #125

last word is yours, this is tedious nt geek tragedy Sep 2013 #127

You find my responding to you in the same way that you posted to me tedious? merrily Sep 2013 #134

Yes, just like laws discriminating on the basis of race left the rights of whites as they were befor merrily Sep 2013 #105

I applaud your effort HangOnKids Sep 2013 #83

+1 n/t NealK Sep 2013 #196

Ironic. Many have no problem defining "arms" in the 2nd. But go ape over defining "press"... Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #218

Many states have them. merrily Sep 2013 #79

And you just presented the problem with 'shied laws'. Congress should NOT sabrina 1 Sep 2013 #198

Wasn't unwitting, at all. Congress made the same mistake w/FISA when they limited Title III warrant leveymg Sep 2013 #222

FISA is not part of the Constitution. It was another pretext to be doing what was already sabrina 1 Sep 2013 #224

The current Bill is very much another intended end-run around the First Amendment leveymg Sep 2013 #226

Thank you. I completely agree and am glad that people are not fooled by the pretext sabrina 1 Sep 2013 #230

The First Amendment prohibits the Congress from passing any law that limits freedom of the press. JDPriestly Sep 2013 #129

So, in your view the 49 state journalist shield laws that have passed geek tragedy Sep 2013 #141

Those parts that would limit in any way the freedom of the press are unconstitutional JDPriestly Sep 2013 #174

If you cannot define the press than the 1st amendment Progressive dog Sep 2013 #194

If the Founding Fathers had wanted to define the press, they would have done so. JDPriestly Sep 2013 #199

So the first amendment "freedom of the press" must be meaningless. Progressive dog Sep 2013 #247

Actually, part of the problem is that our censorship laws, which the government calls JDPriestly Sep 2013 #249

Governments have always had secrets and Progressive dog Sep 2013 #255

That's the problem. Congress shall make no law. That includes "definitions." Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #219

So don't let Congress make new laws, just continue Progressive dog Sep 2013 #248

Nope. Congress makes no laws abridging freedom of press. Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #251

Even though press has no deined meaning? Progressive dog Sep 2013 #254

Wow! sabrina 1 Sep 2013 #175

I'm talking about extending legal privileges to journalists so that they geek tragedy Sep 2013 #176

"What are you supporting here?" NealK Sep 2013 #197

That lockstep mentality don't fly here like it used to, does it? Skip Intro Sep 2013 #201

“News is what somebody somewhere wants to suppress; all the rest is advertising.” Lord Northcliffe Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2013 #8

Have they completely lost their fucking minds? Enthusiast Sep 2013 #9

Establishment Democrats GETPLANING Sep 2013 #13

Why is it the name of the act always seems to imply the opposite of what the Ed Suspicious Sep 2013 #19

Because the "Taking a Giant Shit on the 1st Amendment Bill" did not sound as snappy. Glassunion Sep 2013 #22

Apparently. n/t Aerows Sep 2013 #30

+1 woo me with science Sep 2013 #64

I think that is a great title. PowerToThePeople Sep 2013 #112

What we should do is require journalists to get a journalist license and have to Glassunion Sep 2013 #21

DU is at risk. Licensing Journalists is Very Bad. This law is unconstitutional. nt Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2013 #26

So you think the law should be defeated, and the current system kept as is? nt geek tragedy Sep 2013 #28

If those are the only two alternatives, then absolutely defeat the (proposed) law. But it's not. nt Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2013 #33

False dichotomy. merrily Sep 2013 #144

So if you aren't approved by Corporate America, you're not a journalist. Marr Sep 2013 #31

A drawing I made about this issue dead_head Sep 2013 #39

A press that has to answer to the government when it prints something the government doesn't like JoeyT Sep 2013 #47

So, only the BOUGHT CORPORATE "journalists" can have info... polichick Sep 2013 #52

I have said it many a times nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #53

Why do people keep voting for DiFi? Vashta Nerada Sep 2013 #57

Here nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #60

Thanks. Vashta Nerada Sep 2013 #63

She runs again, I ain't holding my nose in the general nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #71

i DIDN'T vote for her this time around.. frylock Sep 2013 #124

I'll support your decision. Vashta Nerada Sep 2013 #137

yep.. 2banon Sep 2013 #151

As opposed to voting for a Republican? LOTE. merrily Sep 2013 #135

So what's the difference between her and a Republican? Vashta Nerada Sep 2013 #138

How should I know? I didn't say there was a difference, did I? merrily Sep 2013 #154

Charlie Pierce tears DiFi a new one in a way in which I could only dream! bullwinkle428 Sep 2013 #66

WOW !!! - Thank You For That !!! -MUST READ !!! WillyT Sep 2013 #96

Do You Want To OP This, Or Should I ??? WillyT Sep 2013 #117

Go for it, Willy! I'm just glad to have stumbled across it, bullwinkle428 Sep 2013 #165

outstanding. 2banon Sep 2013 #157

Will her husband get the Certification right$? GeorgeGist Sep 2013 #179

oh AMEN to that! (n/t) bread_and_roses Sep 2013 #209

So only Corporate Media hacks can report on Corporate Government. HooptieWagon Sep 2013 #70

We will have to form news cooperatives. JDPriestly Sep 2013 #78

On the other side of the spectrum... Oilwellian Sep 2013 #192

Obama should veto this piece of crap - but will he? [n/t] Maedhros Sep 2013 #81

Veto it? Who do you think DiFi has been pushing it for? merrily Sep 2013 #91

A veto/signing of this bill would serve as a good litmus test Maedhros Sep 2013 #160

Yes, but I can't see him vetoing, unless the bill does not contain a national security exception. merrily Sep 2013 #167

He kissed those rights goodbye long ago Oilwellian Sep 2013 #193

Co-sponsors ProSense Sep 2013 #90

And? merrily Sep 2013 #92

What? n/t ProSense Sep 2013 #93

I assumed your post had a point. If so, the point is not self evident. merrily Sep 2013 #94

Yes, "the point": co-sponsors. ProSense Sep 2013 #97

Very visible, as are you. merrily Sep 2013 #101

You're "visible" also, too. ProSense Sep 2013 #104

I have no problem whatever being as visible and as transparent as you are. merrily Sep 2013 #108

Well, ProSense Sep 2013 #110

It's not a problem for me. merrily Sep 2013 #113

It's like hunting snark. Warren Stupidity Sep 2013 #182

Duzzy!!! westerebus Sep 2013 #200

The point PS was trying to make was 2banon Sep 2013 #164

Ha! If only... whatchamacallit Sep 2013 #171

"to inform us of the list of Traitors who co-sponsored this fascist bill." ProSense Sep 2013 #173

"afraid of information" ... huh? 2banon Sep 2013 #178

These people are DANGEROUS. woo me with science Sep 2013 #100

Here's the version the committee passed: geek tragedy Sep 2013 #102

I wonder if posting on DU makes me a journalist? JoePhilly Sep 2013 #116

Should it matter? merrily Sep 2013 #139

I just want to determine if I can use these legal protections. JoePhilly Sep 2013 #153

If you are asking if you would be protected under the draft federal shield bill, merrily Sep 2013 #155

so the bill takes us from questionseverything Sep 2013 #121

Incorrect. Right now NO ONE has those protections. geek tragedy Sep 2013 #122

so you think we NEED questionseverything Sep 2013 #131

and next time there's a Republican? nt geek tragedy Sep 2013 #136

how will we know the difference? questionseverything Sep 2013 #147

Tom DeLay's conviction/prosecution has absolutely nothing to do with the President. geek tragedy Sep 2013 #148

geek said questionseverything Sep 2013 #159

You appear to have missed the point of Questions Everything's post. merrily Sep 2013 #163

Not so. A number of states have shield laws. merrily Sep 2013 #143

Every state besides Wyoming has some shield protections, judicial and/or legislative. merrily Sep 2013 #149

This is about protections from FEDERAL investigations. geek tragedy Sep 2013 #150

There is some SCOTUS precedent on point. merrily Sep 2013 #152

national security exception questionseverything Sep 2013 #169

Sure. Leakers are usually perceived by government to be a threat to national security. merrily Sep 2013 #170

Not exactly. This would, however, give government the power to decide who is merrily Sep 2013 #158

DiFi is a DiNO. PowerToThePeople Sep 2013 #106

fuck feinstein frylock Sep 2013 #126

Another day, another travesty. TheKentuckian Sep 2013 #128

How many reporters back in the late 1700s earned a salary commensurate w/the NYTimes or WaPo? Roland99 Sep 2013 #140

Anyone who could hammer a piece of paper to a tree got First Amendment protection. merrily Sep 2013 #145

Exactly! Roland99 Sep 2013 #161

Wait just a minute. First of all it's a low blow to immediately use the "unConstitutional" card. rhett o rick Sep 2013 #142

Feinstein is proof of the new Orwellian theorem: jsr Sep 2013 #156

Fits Nicely With The Rest... WillyT Sep 2013 #185

Yet everyone laughs at Assange when he says America has a war on journalism and whistleblowers davidn3600 Sep 2013 #168

I sense synergy whatchamacallit Sep 2013 #172

Bottom line is mick063 Sep 2013 #184

That (D) does not mean much anymore RC Sep 2013 #212

K&R and WTF raouldukelives Sep 2013 #186

It's too late. blkmusclmachine Sep 2013 #188

Welcome to the POLICE STATE. And Obama's 30,000 Drones are coming, too. blkmusclmachine Sep 2013 #187

Feinstein and Durbin are TRAITORS. Faryn Balyncd Sep 2013 #202

They cannot get away with this. woo me with science Sep 2013 #203

Truly... AzDar Sep 2013 #204

It's exhausting to have to fight against your own party so much of the time. K&R. *sigh* myrna minx Sep 2013 #205

Journalism is .... Scuba Sep 2013 #208

Perfect. Check #216 below. Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #220

If this "law" is passed... adavid Sep 2013 #211

"Right of the people" shall not be "abridged" or "infringed." Funny how that works in the BOR. nt Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #214

And Orwell would have a thing to say to DiFi about gun control: Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #216

That becomes hilarious when one considers the weapons the government / MIC control today. Scuba Sep 2013 #229

Explains why imperial/superpowers never lose against guerilla & insurrection forces. Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #246

Maybe I'm missing something. Sanddog42 Sep 2013 #217

it is that the government defines who is a journalist Enrique Sep 2013 #221

But independent journalists don't have those protections now. Sanddog42 Sep 2013 #225

No, it does exactly the opposite. woo me with science Sep 2013 #232

So you think the shield law is unnecessary Sanddog42 Sep 2013 #234

Risen should never have been hauled into court, woo me with science Sep 2013 #235

But he WAS hauled into court and the court sided with the feds. Sanddog42 Sep 2013 #236

The solution is to get rid of the corporate authoritarians now corrupting our government woo me with science Sep 2013 #237

Agreed, but how? Sanddog42 Sep 2013 #239

No, you don't agree. woo me with science Sep 2013 #241

I agree that we need to get rid of corporate authoritarians corrupting our government. Sanddog42 Sep 2013 #242

btw, I still haven't been able to find where this law defines who is and is not a journalist Sanddog42 Sep 2013 #238

here Enrique Sep 2013 #250

thanks Sanddog42 Sep 2013 #253

What you are missing is that this is the latest outrage. treestar Sep 2013 #252

Wow. Lot's of amazingly bad stuff seems to happen every day. gulliver Sep 2013 #223

Two things MFrohike Sep 2013 #228

compelling Sanddog42 Sep 2013 #233

You're wrong MFrohike Sep 2013 #243

ah Sanddog42 Sep 2013 #244

That's what happens... 99Forever Sep 2013 #231

Your objection is a hallucinatory: the status of federal journalist privilege was "resolved" struggle4progress Sep 2013 #240

Yeah. That's bullshit right there. DirkGently Sep 2013 #245