General Discussion

hack89

(39,181 posts)

57. Every state has to respect the civil rights of their citizens

Wed Sep 25, 2013, 09:55 AM

Sep 2013

per the constitution and it's interpretation via case law and precedence. So we have a line over which the states cannot cross - they can grant their citizens more rights but they cannot take away basic rights. This is the fundamental means by which states rights are constrained - it is the mechanism by which the federal government gets involved with state laws.

The Federal government has power over interstate issues which is how they justify their laws and regulations regarding guns. Which is fine - gun manufacturing and sales that cross state lines is a legitimate federal interest. Private sales within a state that do not cross state lines is purely a state issue.

So no, state rights are not absolute. But it is not for the federal government to arbitrarily decide which rights the states cannot have.

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Here's What You Can Buy At The Biggest Gun Show In The Southeast{image warning} [View all] xchrom Sep 2013 OP

The business of fear is booming - nt Ohio Joe Sep 2013 #1

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Sep 2013 #3

We got two choices...and we have chosen...poorly. deutsey Sep 2013 #14

Wow!! Guns and ammo!! badtoworse Sep 2013 #2

Certainly not regulations or anything approaching sanity or decency. EOTE Sep 2013 #10

The laws governing guns are the same inside a gun show as they are outside a gun show. hack89 Sep 2013 #21

Regulated so much that any random psycho can pick up just about any arm he wants from a EOTE Sep 2013 #22

We definitely need universal background checks hack89 Sep 2013 #25

They work fine until some psycho in one of those states decides to travel to another state. EOTE Sep 2013 #39

That's what I meant when I said "universal" hack89 Sep 2013 #41

depends on the show Duckhunter935 Sep 2013 #27

Uhhh, the gun show in the OP does, indeed, allow private sales. EOTE Sep 2013 #30

Of course private sales in another state are already illegal Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #43

There are plenty of states where private sales are perfectly legal. EOTE Sep 2013 #46

I don't disagree Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #53

Needs to go through FFL, who will maintain records, be accountable for following rules, etc. Hoyt Sep 2013 #70

There is no need to wait for a gun show... Bay Boy Sep 2013 #119

Agreed. That's a problem too. The "Private Sales Loophole" needs to be closed. Hoyt Sep 2013 #133

So can we agree to DEfocus on "teh ebil GUNSHOWZ!!!1!" and work sir pball Sep 2013 #160

+1. When I finally sold off my dad's guns -- target and antiques mostly -- went through FFL. Hoyt Sep 2013 #176

It's the only way any rational person should dispose of a firearm sir pball Sep 2013 #200

I support UBCs. Be aware that even with such, you run into the dynamic of Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #240

Unless I'm mistaken, private sales are still subject to state regulation... badtoworse Sep 2013 #29

You are mistaken. EOTE Sep 2013 #31

I said state law badtoworse Sep 2013 #34

Ahhh, so private sales are still subject to state laws which don't exist. EOTE Sep 2013 #36

"Just as the gun nutters want it" badtoworse Sep 2013 #42

Bullshit, they wanted a "Well regulated militia". EOTE Sep 2013 #45

Have you considered decaf? badtoworse Sep 2013 #50

Ahhh, so not what the founders wanted, but what Roberts and Scalia wanted. EOTE Sep 2013 #54

To be honest... Bay Boy Sep 2013 #129

Funny how things are capable of changing in 200 plus years. EOTE Sep 2013 #139

I've certainly not advocated for Bay Boy Sep 2013 #259

Nice straw man. Does it keep the crows out of your garden? Lizzie Poppet Sep 2013 #158

And where does the "well regulated" part come in? EOTE Sep 2013 #159

That qualifier is ascribed to the militia. Lizzie Poppet Sep 2013 #164

And what is "well regulated" about giving any psycho who wants one a gun? EOTE Sep 2013 #167

I think you're seeing/hearing what you WANT to see. Lizzie Poppet Sep 2013 #184

Really? The RKBA crowd doesn't want any such thing? EOTE Sep 2013 #193

See above. Repeat as needed. Lizzie Poppet Sep 2013 #209

So, tell me what the RKBA crowd is doing to prevent violent criminals from owning firearms. EOTE Sep 2013 #212

Still not bothering to read what I write, I see. Lizzie Poppet Sep 2013 #217

If by universal, you mean federally mandated, then you and I agree. EOTE Sep 2013 #218

I do, yes. Lizzie Poppet Sep 2013 #222

Then you're not the norm for the RKBA crowd. EOTE Sep 2013 #224

Actually, the UBC has been and IS discussed by the "RKBA crowd" regularly Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #241

What I've heard a number of times from the gunners here is that by "Universal Background Checks" EOTE Sep 2013 #243

A ready explanation: The gun-controllers have poisoned the well Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #258

Logic Alert. Logic Alert. Logic Alert. oldhippie Sep 2013 #187

You're telling me that there are no states in which anyone who wants one can walk into a gunshow EOTE Sep 2013 #191

I rest my case ...... oldhippie Sep 2013 #202

You do know that "I rest my case" is usually preceded by some form of logic or facts. EOTE Sep 2013 #203

No, he's not mistaken, and neither are you ...... oldhippie Sep 2013 #37

States CAN place further restrictions. EOTE Sep 2013 #38

Choice .... oldhippie Sep 2013 #40

There are some things which shouldn't be left up for states to decide. EOTE Sep 2013 #44

Like gay marriage or marijuana laws? That is a two edged sword you are swinging there. nt hack89 Sep 2013 #47

Do you disagree that there are some things the state shouldn't have the ability to decide? EOTE Sep 2013 #49

Every state has to respect the civil rights of their citizens hack89 Sep 2013 #57

I believe one of those rights is "life". EOTE Sep 2013 #62

Show me a state law that permits convicted violent felons to buy guns. hack89 Sep 2013 #65

Sure, it's illegal to sell guns to felons in every state. EOTE Sep 2013 #68

The Federal government does not get to decide how states enforce their own laws hack89 Sep 2013 #75

Yet somehow they got to decide that you can't purchase fully automatic weapons. EOTE Sep 2013 #79

You can purchase them - there are 32,000 legal machine guns in VA alone hack89 Sep 2013 #96

You mean, the government REQUIRES those background checks? TYRANNY!!!!! EOTE Sep 2013 #98

ok. nt hack89 Sep 2013 #103

That's a little false equivalency right there derby378 Sep 2013 #272

The background check doesn't need to be that extensive. EOTE Sep 2013 #276

None officially. But there is one State with a large city with street gangs that turn out the vote AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2013 #278

Are you arguing against abortion now? Bay Boy Sep 2013 #124

The not so good at reading crowd might get something like that. EOTE Sep 2013 #144

You're thinking of the 14th Amendment, exercised in McDonald. Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #242

Nope. Not at all. nt EOTE Sep 2013 #244

Unfortunately for you, the 14th clears up a lot of the arguments you've proffered. Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #260

Unfortunately for you, you have no idea of what I'm talking. EOTE Sep 2013 #267

Keep up your culture war. Makes it easy for the "nutters." nt Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #269

Easier to what? Plan their next murder? EOTE Sep 2013 #274

Exactly what I expected ..... oldhippie Sep 2013 #51

Wow, so you believe we should have the choice to own another person? EOTE Sep 2013 #59

Posts that start with "So you believe ..." about something I don't believe, ... oldhippie Sep 2013 #185

And you are anti-life. EOTE Sep 2013 #201

"You think ...." .... oldhippie Sep 2013 #204

No more than you. EOTE Sep 2013 #205

"Now we're giving states the "choice" to provide guns to depraved psychotics..." badtoworse Sep 2013 #52

But it IS given to the federal government, which is exactly what we should be doing. EOTE Sep 2013 #55

"But it IS given to the federal government" badtoworse Sep 2013 #58

What part of "well regulated militia" don't you understand? nt EOTE Sep 2013 #60

That was the stated reason for DENYING a certain power to the federal government badtoworse Sep 2013 #64

So, just so we're clear here. EOTE Sep 2013 #66

Why don't you do your own research and look up what "militia" meant to the founding fathers? badtoworse Sep 2013 #69

No need. You've already informed me. EOTE Sep 2013 #73

Is this a power you want to give a repuke president and congress? hack89 Sep 2013 #61

We're not talking about one state, we're talking about federal law. EOTE Sep 2013 #63

I support it. It just requires each state to pass a law. hack89 Sep 2013 #72

So what you're supporting is NOT universal. It's "whenever the states get around to it". EOTE Sep 2013 #74

If the ACA was restricted to a single state with no interstate component hack89 Sep 2013 #86

Yes, the ACA was a nationwide and LEGAL act passed for the benefit of all. EOTE Sep 2013 #90

You do realize that you can legally own fully automatic weapons? hack89 Sep 2013 #97

But with mandatory federal background checks. EOTE Sep 2013 #100

"But some minds are more inflexible than orders." - Mr. Kettle, meet Mr. Pot. badtoworse Sep 2013 #105

Sure, the other side's opinions are probably even MORE strongly held as mine. EOTE Sep 2013 #109

The Feds basically wrote the law as a tax bill under their power to tax hack89 Sep 2013 #114

There is nothing that prevents them from doing the same thing with all firearms. EOTE Sep 2013 #136

How? Time for you to get specific hack89 Sep 2013 #137

It's in the 2nd amendment. EOTE Sep 2013 #141

The Bill of Rights is a limit on government power hack89 Sep 2013 #147

And any state cannot take for granted a right something that is NOT in the constitution or bill of EOTE Sep 2013 #152

Show me the words abortion or privacy in the Constitution - and think about what you are saying. nt hack89 Sep 2013 #170

The president and the Democratic party platform says otherwise hack89 Sep 2013 #148

Even for criminals and the insane? nt EOTE Sep 2013 #155

We were talking about the 2A giving powers to the Federal government hack89 Sep 2013 #172

That right is predicated on being well regulated. EOTE Sep 2013 #177

And of course you can point out the case law that supports this? hack89 Sep 2013 #183

There's nothing to consider. EOTE Sep 2013 #188

So the 2A gives Congress the power to pass any gun law they want. hack89 Sep 2013 #192

So, the 2A gives anyone the right to own any arm they see fit. EOTE Sep 2013 #194

No - the 2A can be restricted. Didn't you read Heller? hack89 Sep 2013 #195

So, it can be restricted, but not to the point where we say they can't be sold to violent felons. EOTE Sep 2013 #196

It is against the law to sell guns to violent felons. hack89 Sep 2013 #197

And do you HONESTLY think that prevents them from being sold in states where there are no background EOTE Sep 2013 #198

That is not the issue at hand hack89 Sep 2013 #208

They had the ability to regulate SOME firearms. EOTE Sep 2013 #211

The Congress used their power of taxation to regulate automatic weapons hack89 Sep 2013 #213

Automatic weapons and a number of other weapons. EOTE Sep 2013 #214

Their power of taxation. Didn't you read what I wrote? hack89 Sep 2013 #215

What is there to prevent another National Firearms Act? EOTE Sep 2013 #216

Because UBCs for intrastate private sales is not a federal taxation issue? hack89 Sep 2013 #219

And why couldn't it be? EOTE Sep 2013 #220

Because the states have sovereignty that prevents it hack89 Sep 2013 #223

But why didn't they have the sovereignty to prevent the regulation of machine guns? EOTE Sep 2013 #225

Because it was not an intrastate commerce issue. hack89 Sep 2013 #226

And there is absolutely no reason the same couldn't apply for all firearms. EOTE Sep 2013 #227

We are talking about transactions. That is the distinction that you refuse to grasp. hack89 Sep 2013 #229

So you're telling me that congress can't regulate intrastate transactiopns in terms of machine gun EOTE Sep 2013 #231

ok nt hack89 Sep 2013 #232

This whole sub thread shows that ..... oldhippie Sep 2013 #199

You could affect state laws, too. If you had the support. Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #245

You'd need to affect state laws in all the remaining states at once for that to be worth anything. EOTE Sep 2013 #246

Less than 30 yrs ago, few states had "shall issue" CCW. Now, over 40... Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #261

That's called regress. I suppose you'd prefer if it were unrestricted nation wide? EOTE Sep 2013 #266

Re-read my post regarding the commerce clause... Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #270

Probably at least half of them. EOTE Sep 2013 #275

I see you like calling people "gunnutters".. NM_Birder Sep 2013 #277

I see. So it's those calling for sensible regulation who are causing these mass murders. EOTE Sep 2013 #279

if you drive a car, yet are unable to stop drunk drivers.... NM_Birder Sep 2013 #280

Cars are strongly regulated. EOTE Sep 2013 #283

your car is manufactured, advertised and sold NM_Birder Sep 2013 #285

the regulations don't appear to be working samsingh Sep 2013 #81

Pressure needs to be put on the states to require UBCs. nt hack89 Sep 2013 #87

How so? Gun-related crime has been trending downward for years. Lizzie Poppet Sep 2013 #88

people are getting killed with guns all over the place samsingh Sep 2013 #264

Gun deaths have been cut 50% in the past 30 years NickB79 Sep 2013 #281

that's no consolation to the people being killed with guns today samsingh Sep 2013 #284

It looks like a collection of some of the least able people on the planet DisgustipatedinCA Sep 2013 #71

yes it does samsingh Sep 2013 #83

a lot of dim witted people who don't care about innocent people being slaughtered. samsingh Sep 2013 #80

scary guns and man killer ammo. ileus Sep 2013 #182

I know right! nt Mojorabbit Sep 2013 #262

Article pushing an agenda Duckhunter935 Sep 2013 #4

Granted. But if one takes the high side, one must also admit the hind side. longship Sep 2013 #56

Your opinion on ownership of Jenoch Sep 2013 #95

the agenda is to safe lives from gun nut insanity samsingh Sep 2013 #84

Someone somewhere is legally selling someone a gun. aikoaiko Sep 2013 #5

The handy thing about guns shows is that it is all legal BainsBane Sep 2013 #7

He looks like my Duckhunter935 Sep 2013 #8

I am sorry to hear that BainsBane Sep 2013 #9

I am glad my grandpa Duckhunter935 Sep 2013 #16

So why did you choose to equate him with someone who is clearly homicidal? BainsBane Sep 2013 #17

I am glad you can diagnose over Duckhunter935 Sep 2013 #19

What does the shirt say? BainsBane Sep 2013 #20

I can Duckhunter935 Sep 2013 #23

The shirt expresses a disdain for the police and their services- a sentiment held by most of DU Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #26

So the reaction to this tee shirt would be a perfect example BainsBane Sep 2013 #28

Actually, anyone defending the t-shirt Jenoch Sep 2013 #99

No, it is still illegal for felons to buy. And illegal to sell to them. Lee-Lee Sep 2013 #12

This message was self-deleted by its author BainsBane Sep 2013 #18

As usual, you ignore the reality of private gun sales BainsBane Sep 2013 #265

That is hilarious. pintobean Sep 2013 #268

Perhaps things have changed since 2001 NickB79 Sep 2013 #282

Let's hope it's not James Holmes, Jared Loughner, Sueng Hui Cho or Aaron Alexis. nt Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2013 #24

Thus the need for universal background checks... Lizzie Poppet Sep 2013 #93

That tee shirt says it all BainsBane Sep 2013 #6

Yeah, there's a shoot-out every night in the retirement communities. pintobean Sep 2013 #11

My 72 year old neighbor HockeyMom Sep 2013 #33

I would like to invent a giant flying mechanic hand jpak Sep 2013 #13

I see paranoid rednecks. morningfog Sep 2013 #15

wow, geezer in first photo needs either to do some arm workouts or wear a little longer sleeve... CTyankee Sep 2013 #32

A nice place for Americans itching Turbineguy Sep 2013 #35

Possibly. But if so, I find it strange that gun violence in Florida is now at the lowest levels ... spin Sep 2013 #150

It would do that yes. Turbineguy Sep 2013 #174

I live in Florida and I don't know anyone who is afraid to go out. ... spin Sep 2013 #228

Actually Turbineguy Sep 2013 #235

I lived in a fairly bad neighborhood in Tampa for many years. ... spin Sep 2013 #237

"Afraid to go out?" Florida? A sub-tropical tourist state? Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #248

And again... factual FAIL krispos42 Sep 2013 #48

I have been to gun shows. People with a gun to sell upaloopa Sep 2013 #92

Bingo! But the gun huggers pretend like they are unaware of that fact. n/t rdharma Sep 2013 #102

There is good and bad everywhere. upaloopa Sep 2013 #104

And that exact same transaction could be done in a McDonald's parking lot... krispos42 Sep 2013 #108

Sure. But it draws more attention...... and the selection is limited. nt rdharma Sep 2013 #115

Gun Control & RKBA group - 2 blocked members pintobean Sep 2013 #123

Yes. The RKBA group is just filled with those of diverse opinions! rdharma Sep 2013 #128

The numbers speak for themselves pintobean Sep 2013 #131

I guess you boys get tired of the "echo chamber". rdharma Sep 2013 #134

Aren't you a regular of castle Bansalot? hack89 Sep 2013 #127

You meant the massive list of 2 members? krispos42 Sep 2013 #132

186 people have trashed your forum. Robb Sep 2013 #135

And it's still 3x busier than yours. krispos42 Sep 2013 #142

I know it hurts to see all your right-wing gun buddies getting banned. Robb Sep 2013 #145

I love how... krispos42 Sep 2013 #151

You are not a RW troll. Robb Sep 2013 #157

He thinks I am. Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #249

Well, these discussions can lead to a narrow focus. krispos42 Sep 2013 #251

You post here, we post here. Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #256

It's not a different topic upaloopa Sep 2013 #210

Illegal versus convenience krispos42 Sep 2013 #230

No body is talking about what is legal or not upaloopa Sep 2013 #234

The OP is, which was what I was trying to correct. krispos42 Sep 2013 #250

OK got it upaloopa Sep 2013 #253

I appreciate our conversation krispos42 Sep 2013 #254

we should remain respectful to one another upaloopa Sep 2013 #255

I always sell mine via the paper sir pball Sep 2013 #163

I guess felons know where to get their guns better than you. rdharma Sep 2013 #263

A lot of us shooting enthusiasts support universal background checks. Lizzie Poppet Sep 2013 #190

here's the deal BainsBane Sep 2013 #122

In my experience there are not "lots" of private sellers; krispos42 Sep 2013 #130

Yeah, SD is very underpopulated BainsBane Sep 2013 #146

Well, they still filled a convention hall. krispos42 Sep 2013 #156

I'm not far from you, in MN BainsBane Sep 2013 #165

I'm in Connecticut, now krispos42 Sep 2013 #166

that's right. I remember now. BainsBane Sep 2013 #168

I don't know how many gun shows you have been to. Jenoch Sep 2013 #236

haha I love the Image Warning in the title. GalaxyHunter Sep 2013 #67

I think you misunderstood the intent of that warning. nt. Democracyinkind Sep 2013 #101

I don't think so... GalaxyHunter Sep 2013 #107

It's a common warning in threads with pics since some people still use dialups. Democracyinkind Sep 2013 #111

ohhh.. is that what this is all about... GalaxyHunter Sep 2013 #117

Probability would suggest so. Democracyinkind Sep 2013 #120

laughter all day keeps the doctor away!!! GalaxyHunter Sep 2013 #121

I'm glad to have offered you a habitat for hilarity. nt Democracyinkind Sep 2013 #125

you're too kind! GalaxyHunter Sep 2013 #126

You're wrong. People complain about image heavy threads xchrom Sep 2013 #113

hahahahahaha GalaxyHunter Sep 2013 #118

This shit needs to be shut down gopiscrap Sep 2013 #76

So the place is clearner nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #77

your concern is noted. GalaxyHunter Sep 2013 #89

Of course it is, gunnies hate the comparison nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #91

good thing our streets don't look the same!! GalaxyHunter Sep 2013 #94

And your point? The comparison was to the guns nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #106

I get it. You hate gun. GalaxyHunter Sep 2013 #110

And you would be so wrong it is not funny nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #112

is that a compliment? GalaxyHunter Sep 2013 #116

disgusting sight - all harginers of death samsingh Sep 2013 #78

Fuck the small stuff. unhappycamper Sep 2013 #82

why stop there - that's kid stuff samsingh Sep 2013 #85

Gross & Frightening otohara Sep 2013 #138

Just sat on a jury for this OP, accused of being "gun porn." Robb Sep 2013 #140

What juror # were you? Frankie the Bird Sep 2013 #189

Me, too. Iggo Sep 2013 #206

From the title I expected something dramatic... Demo_Chris Sep 2013 #143

But don't you know? Those are EVIL!! Lizzie Poppet Sep 2013 #153

Of course, as are all gun owners and the indifferent like me. nt Demo_Chris Sep 2013 #162

I'd like to pick up a M&P9 or 40. ileus Sep 2013 #149

LOL! "We don't call 911." What a line of bullshit. Rex Sep 2013 #154

Yep. That shirt is industrial-strength stupid. Lizzie Poppet Sep 2013 #161

Thank you Rex Sep 2013 #171

Oh, wow! Lizzie Poppet Sep 2013 #186

They call it to hurl racist epithets and get their latest kill on record ProudToBeBlueInRhody Sep 2013 #173

If a 'stranger' was walking in their yard Rex Sep 2013 #178

Yeah. krispos42 Sep 2013 #180

If that is their mentality, then 'responsible gun owner' Rex Sep 2013 #181

Nobody else has said it yet, so I will, rrneck Sep 2013 #169

I wonder if any black people showed up? ProudToBeBlueInRhody Sep 2013 #175

I've seen plenty of black people at gun shows madville Sep 2013 #257

Gee. Everything you might need (except Sarin) to commit a war crime. leveymg Sep 2013 #179

This crap makes me cringe that I am an American. Arugula Latte Sep 2013 #207

if i had somewhere to shoot.... madrchsod Sep 2013 #221

Guns for everyone! GUN OWNERSIP and FIREARM-RELATED DEATHS Jefferson23 Sep 2013 #233

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2013 #238

welcome to DU gopiscrap Sep 2013 #239

Enjoy your time on DU. n/t Jefferson23 Sep 2013 #252

Xchrom. That "Gunshine State" slogan wielded by the controller/banners: Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #247

Wow! The folks over in the gungeon must be seriously getting off by this display of gun porn. madinmaryland Sep 2013 #271

....A bag of pot? Warren DeMontague Sep 2013 #273