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treestar

(82,383 posts)

139. Might includes taking controls of a plane by force

Reply to Romulox (Reply #93)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 12:12 PM

Sep 2013

and using it to kill everyone on it and some others in a building.

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Seymour Hersh: Story About Killing Osama Bin Laden is One Big Lie [View all] babsbunny Sep 2013 OP

OBL was likely *executed* in cold blood. The story about a shoot out is obviously bogus. Romulox Sep 2013 #1

Why is anything 'likely' or 'obvious'? randome Sep 2013 #3

What story about a "shoot out"? AlbertCat Sep 2013 #128

I believe the WH itself said things happened differently from first reported. randome Sep 2013 #199

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I'm trying to imagine Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #4

Summary execution is a war crime. If you are arguing "Might makes right", well, there is no need Romulox Sep 2013 #6

I'm not saying might makes right. I'm saying nobody cares; including UBL Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #8

That's an obviously false statement, as you and I (and Mr. Hersh) are discussing it. Romulox Sep 2013 #11

Nail, meet hammer Hydra Sep 2013 #33

Obviously? You keep using that word... demwing Sep 2013 #68

We are all here, discussing. So "nobody cares" is just a silly non-starter. nt Romulox Sep 2013 #73

"The story about a shoot out is obviously bogus" demwing Sep 2013 #77

Ahem..."White House changes story: Bin Laden unarmed" Romulox Sep 2013 #82

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They knew he was incapacitated on the ground when he was shot in the chest, and killed. nt Romulox Sep 2013 #90

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You were there? How do you know these details? n/t pnwmom Sep 2013 #110

Jay Carney is a spokesman for the White House. The story covers his remarks. nt Romulox Sep 2013 #112

Sounds like a summary execution to me. But why the surprise? Th1onein Sep 2013 #258

Which proves your earlier statement wrong. Having access to his body wouldn't have pnwmom Sep 2013 #106

First, you have zero evidence there was an execution, summary or otherwise. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #84

The accounts of the SEALs, posted below, are evidence. nt Romulox Sep 2013 #87

Nope Shivering Jemmy Sep 2013 #104

Touch�. nt Romulox Sep 2013 #113

Are we less civilized than Israel or France? nt kelliekat44 Sep 2013 #94

Due process is for crimes creeksneakers2 Sep 2013 #142

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Summary execution of pirates is and always has been legal Recursion Sep 2013 #48

LOL. nt Romulox Sep 2013 #55

What? Recursion Sep 2013 #124

Well apparently, it would not have been OK for treestar Sep 2013 #171

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It's a crime only if someone treats it as such. Nobody ever will in this case. leveymg Sep 2013 #57

Too true. And the whole truth about 9/11? Down to the bottom of the sea. nt Romulox Sep 2013 #65

Quick question - You believe the story of OBLs death is a lie demwing Sep 2013 #74

It probably happened as the SEALs who I quote, below, said it did. There was no shootout with OBL. Romulox Sep 2013 #76

Even if there was a shootout, they could have captured him - if that was their mission. leveymg Sep 2013 #96

Because there's no history of terrorists blowing themselves up? mythology Sep 2013 #269

High-risk is part of that job. If they wanted to capture him alive, he'd be in a cell right now. leveymg Sep 2013 #270

Hersh didn't say the official story is "almost all a lie." onenote Sep 2013 #297

You're getting into petty semantics and ascribing your own conclusion to me. leveymg Sep 2013 #298

You are saying the truth about 911 would have been with OBL treestar Sep 2013 #193

This whole thing put the kibosh on Bin Laden killed in Dec 2001 reports 2banon Sep 2013 #240

And where do the lies end? demwing Sep 2013 #242

Did he raise his hands and cry out "I surrender!"? EX500rider Sep 2013 #216

Summary execution happens after you surrender... EX500rider Sep 2013 #260

Flying airplanes into skyscrapers is probably a war crime, too. Warren DeMontague Sep 2013 #266

Like that matters to the "blame America first" crowd. zappaman Sep 2013 #272

The threads at the time of OBL's killing were something else, indeed. Warren DeMontague Sep 2013 #274

I remember being quite embaressed that I shared a party affiliation with those zappaman Sep 2013 #276

yet, those in the same party calling Obama a war criminal Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #291

Wow 2banon Sep 2013 #282

Also, why lie if it doesn't matter? Romulox Sep 2013 #7

"They lied cuz it's illegal, we know it's illegal cuz they lied" is a circular argument. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #9

When you can't argue the points an opponent has made, simply argue against one of your own creation. Romulox Sep 2013 #12

No, I think he's got you there. DireStrike Sep 2013 #32

It's called a strawman argument when you attribute something to your opponent only Romulox Sep 2013 #41

"the same poster has ignored the far more substantive response to him, above" Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #64

You had time to put quotation marks around something I hadn't said. That takes a second or two! nt Romulox Sep 2013 #66

Whatever, dude. If you're that hungry for a win... Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #86

That's just how quotes work. nt Romulox Sep 2013 #88

The NSA proves you incorrect. Hydra Sep 2013 #37

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You're seriously misinterpreting that story. He was not executed. DevonRex Sep 2013 #215

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The firsthand accounts of the soldiers who participated... Romulox Sep 2013 #16

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They should have called an ambulance, first. randome Sep 2013 #20

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Oh, I understand the concept of treating our enemes as well as ourselves. randome Sep 2013 #24

To shoot and kill a wounded, unarmed man, you mean? nt Romulox Sep 2013 #23

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That's a War Crime, irrespective of whether you think "he had it coming". nt Romulox Sep 2013 #27

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Again, if facts don't matter, it's all just "might makes right", and no discussion is needed. Romulox Sep 2013 #34

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If you "don't care", why are you here, arguing? nt Romulox Sep 2013 #43

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It's a dumb question, as SEALs are not lawyers or judges. nt Romulox Sep 2013 #47

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Neither are most of us, but we are all bound by the rules of law. nt Romulox Sep 2013 #52

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We are signatories to the Geneva Conventions, as well as bound by the general laws of war. Those Romulox Sep 2013 #71

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This is why I mentioned your low post count: discussion forums don't work this way. nt Romulox Sep 2013 #85

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No. I mean discussions are back and forths. You can't ignore points I've made, and questions I've Romulox Sep 2013 #109

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This isn't a court of law. The standards of evidence for discussion are much lower. Again, Romulox Sep 2013 #116

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There is "evidence" of a War Crime. "Proof" is determined in a Court of Law. This is tedious. nt Romulox Sep 2013 #131

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Members with low post counts can't question Dr Hobbitstein Sep 2013 #121

If you want to take that route... I've been here years longer than you... Buddyblazon Sep 2013 #175

US criminal law does not apply out side of the US treestar Sep 2013 #134

You are simply wrong on this point. US criminal law absolutely applies to US citizens acting Romulox Sep 2013 #136

No you are wrong treestar Sep 2013 #138

The PROTECT Act of 2003 (Sex Tourism) is a small example of overseas behavior criminalized Romulox Sep 2013 #145

Oh really so we are going to go into say Uganda treestar Sep 2013 #149

The overseas behavior is prosecuted in the US. Really...why argue points if you don't know Romulox Sep 2013 #150

Has anyone been forced from another country to the US treestar Sep 2013 #151

That's called "extradition". This is basic stuff, getting outside the scope of this discussion. nt Romulox Sep 2013 #152

What countries will voluntarily extradite their citizens to the US treestar Sep 2013 #155

If you don't read what I'm posting, I don't see how we can discuss anything. Romulox Sep 2013 #160

But not non-US citizens treestar Sep 2013 #162

Are you really unfamiliar with the Geneva Conventions? The Trials at Nuremberg??? Romulox Sep 2013 #165

International law is a different thing from a US statute treestar Sep 2013 #169

You should read the actual text of the statute, instead of a summary jberryhill Sep 2013 #255

I don't recall U.S. declaring war on Pakistan... when did that happen? 2banon Sep 2013 #249

It didn't. treestar Sep 2013 #251

Indeed. Thank You Romulox! 2banon Sep 2013 #283

Not in war. treestar Sep 2013 #132

We weren't at war with Pakistan. nt Romulox Sep 2013 #137

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Pakistan did not see it as an attack against their nation treestar Sep 2013 #154

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Then it doesn't sound like "war" at all. nt Romulox Sep 2013 #161

There are allies in wars treestar Sep 2013 #163

actually this is not how I remembered Pakistan's reactions. 2banon Sep 2013 #281

Well treestar Sep 2013 #303

That's an untrue statement. DisgustipatedinCA Sep 2013 #302

No, but the 2001 AUMF gave the president clear authority to act. This is silly. tritsofme Sep 2013 #195

Didn't have to be at war with Pakistan.... EX500rider Sep 2013 #222

A "war crime" is determined by international consensus demwing Sep 2013 #92

"Might makes right" is what we've had for most of human history. My real concern is for the truth Romulox Sep 2013 #93

So you're saying that you don't believe bin Laden was responsible? demwing Sep 2013 #99

I'm saying what's in my posts. I'm not going to refute arguments I haven't made. nt Romulox Sep 2013 #117

Then maybe just answer the question demwing Sep 2013 #184

Romulox, I know you can't reply...but at least consider the following demwing Sep 2013 #231

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Ahh...thanks, will edit my post /nt. demwing Sep 2013 #238

Might includes taking controls of a plane by force treestar Sep 2013 #139

Actually I don't think it is.. EX500rider Sep 2013 #220

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The facts that OBL knew dotymed Sep 2013 #98

Well if they are trained to commit war crimes zeemike Sep 2013 #101

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I said if. zeemike Sep 2013 #120

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That's what you do on a raid into a enemy compound.. EX500rider Sep 2013 #224

You mean like the SS? zeemike Sep 2013 #241

"You mean like the SS?" EX500rider Sep 2013 #246

And also killed them before they had the chance to surrender. zeemike Sep 2013 #250

So I guess you don't see the difference... EX500rider Sep 2013 #256

No I see the difference. zeemike Sep 2013 #259

Killing enemies who haven't surrendered... EX500rider Sep 2013 #261

And they are enemies whether armed or not? zeemike Sep 2013 #271

yes, members of AQ are self-described enemies of the US... EX500rider Sep 2013 #275

All of this makes me sad. zeemike Sep 2013 #277

You aren't interested in proof at all but rather shutting down the whole discussion. TheKentuckian Sep 2013 #166

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If that SEAL gathered the women in his arms to absorb a tblue37 Sep 2013 #28

Read the accounts--OBL was the last male "accounted for". He was killed in cold blood Romulox Sep 2013 #30

It certainly silences the issue of questioning Bushco about what happened on 9/11 Hydra Sep 2013 #38

OBL would not have much credibility treestar Sep 2013 #157

Why wouldn't he have credibility? Hydra Sep 2013 #168

Really? A person who admitted he was behind a plot treestar Sep 2013 #170

WTH? Hydra Sep 2013 #173

Like OBL would have told the truth? treestar Sep 2013 #194

Like further upthread, you are missing the point Hydra Sep 2013 #208

Alive he would not have told us a blasted thing treestar Sep 2013 #252

Well, I don't assume that, because as I said, I am not convinced tblue37 Sep 2013 #46

We dont know other than what we've been told. It would be nice if we could rhett o rick Sep 2013 #179

"We dont know other than what we've been told." Enthusiast Sep 2013 #293

Authoritarians think they know what's best for us and treat us accordingly. rhett o rick Sep 2013 #295

Hersch has a checkered past? Really? 2banon Sep 2013 #244

i'm not sure you can say killed in cold blood about obl samsingh Sep 2013 #15

I have not an ounce of pity. But this is how myths and propaganda is made. nt Romulox Sep 2013 #18

I think Hersh is saying the WHOLE story is a steaming pile.... Junkdrawer Sep 2013 #17

We won't know that until someone . . . brush Sep 2013 #102

People outside the compound... solarhydrocan Sep 2013 #187

The story is not "obviously bogus." Bin Laden's body wouldn't have proved anything. pnwmom Sep 2013 #103

Also, no country would accept his body. delta17 Sep 2013 #207

given that Saddam was placed in a spider hole for American soldiers roguevalley Sep 2013 #147

obviously bogus.... links please. spanone Sep 2013 #182

You say based on nothing but feelings. nt geek tragedy Sep 2013 #188

But we have proof: We buried him at sea. Junkdrawer Sep 2013 #2

Yep G_j Sep 2013 #5

He's obviously a Rand Paul/Putin supporter..... go west young man Sep 2013 #49

More like an Alex Jones type at this point in his career. nt geek tragedy Sep 2013 #192

He read it on the internet, so it must be true. Lasher Sep 2013 #10

et tu seymour warrior1 Sep 2013 #13

hersch shoudl back up his talk elehhhhna Sep 2013 #53

hersch rso Sep 2013 #69

He's making an ass of himself BeyondGeography Sep 2013 #22

Didn't he run with that story of "hundreds of US soldiers killed" in that airfield attack? Recursion Sep 2013 #26

Hersh is correct about journalism in the U.S.. nt LWolf Sep 2013 #31

No argument there. randome Sep 2013 #35

I don't care much about how OBL was killed. Shrike47 Sep 2013 #36

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Why would you suspect that? leftstreet Sep 2013 #80

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No, you said they were glad he's dead leftstreet Sep 2013 #91

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Good Americans are scared of official boogeymen, dontchaknow? bobduca Sep 2013 #217

I don't care either. Kaleva Sep 2013 #45

LOL, yes, lets be ok with executions for ones we deem really really bad. n-t Logical Sep 2013 #300

Amusing responses in this thread Hydra Sep 2013 #40

I'll say. Tremendous redirection. One Big Lie = Killed in Cold Blood???? Junkdrawer Sep 2013 #56

Hersh didn't say specifically what they lied about Hydra Sep 2013 #63

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Indeed. Posters with a few dozen posts strutting about in a "Mission Accomplished" pose... nt Romulox Sep 2013 #58

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No, see as your post count increases so does your wisdom!! lol n/t EX500rider Sep 2013 #226

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Thanks for posting the info from the troops further up Hydra Sep 2013 #72

Now you've resorted to ad hominem treestar Sep 2013 #164

Your response is amusing themaguffin Sep 2013 #78

They never bothered to bring a legal case against him Hydra Sep 2013 #118

This is a case where military action was needed, not a trial, for reasons I already stated themaguffin Sep 2013 #125

*lol* Hydra Sep 2013 #130

due process for whom? LOL indeed. themaguffin Sep 2013 #141

Exaggerate much? Doc Holliday Sep 2013 #114

The rule of law applies to the innocent and the guilty equally. Romulox Sep 2013 #119

Looks like I got my answer Hydra Sep 2013 #133

In a civil society treestar Sep 2013 #167

Except on a raid into a enemy compound... EX500rider Sep 2013 #233

Thanks for proving my point Hydra Sep 2013 #126

What law do you think protects OBL while in Pakistan? EX500rider Sep 2013 #234

So if Putin declares you an enemy of his state Hydra Sep 2013 #265

Well if i mastermind 4,000 dead Russian civilians... EX500rider Sep 2013 #268

No, it's just funny how people whine about it geek tragedy Sep 2013 #189

as long as a D does it, it is fine noiretextatique Sep 2013 #225

I didn't realize Hersh was with the seal team Politicub Sep 2013 #50

He was also there when we decided to invade Iran BeyondGeography Sep 2013 #62

I'm grateful we didn't take the bastard prisoner and Ilsa Sep 2013 #54

It was a kill mission from the start Botany Sep 2013 #70

ITA on all comments. Ilsa Sep 2013 #97

that pretty much sums up what happened in two sentences..... madrchsod Sep 2013 #111

Meanwhile back on the Farm,,, Cryptoad Sep 2013 #59

completely aside from anything Hersh has said, G_j Sep 2013 #60

He's dead. 99Forever Sep 2013 #81

I am glad the CT posse hasnt decided to try to censor this OP. rhett o rick Sep 2013 #107

I'm a proponent of giving sunlight to CT nuts like this. tritsofme Sep 2013 #197

I think people that are "politically liberal" welcome all points of view. They feel they rhett o rick Sep 2013 #203

bull chit! stonecutter357 Sep 2013 #122

An opportunity lost Vox Moi Sep 2013 #127

Yes, a monumental opportunity whatchamacallit Sep 2013 #176

I'm guessing you don't know whether he was unarmed or alone unless you were there. cherokeeprogressive Sep 2013 #181

The account I read says he was unarmed but that isn't the point Vox Moi Sep 2013 #209

"The account I read..." cherokeeprogressive Sep 2013 #278

Well put post. go west young man Sep 2013 #292

Right... EX500rider Sep 2013 #229

I'm still running into Morans on YouTube claiming Iraq had WMDs. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2013 #135

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Welcome to DU!!! gopiscrap Sep 2013 #180

Was a star put on the wall when OBL got stiffed? HoosierCowboy Sep 2013 #143

Post removed Post removed Sep 2013 #148

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"official story" G_j Sep 2013 #158

Tend to agree. TheKentuckian Sep 2013 #174

Not a misadventure Hydra Sep 2013 #178

+ 1! welcome to the DU! n/t wildbilln864 Sep 2013 #296

OBL's last words whatchamacallit Sep 2013 #159

Yup Hydra Sep 2013 #177

No, we just don't get our news from Alex geek tragedy Sep 2013 #191

It's interesting you assume all doubts about the official story originated whatchamacallit Sep 2013 #198

Sure, you're claiming there's a great big conspiracy surrounding bin Laden's death geek tragedy Sep 2013 #201

What? whatchamacallit Sep 2013 #202

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Oh, oops, well then whatchamacallit Sep 2013 #206

Okay, what impeccable source provides your view that Hillary Clinton's State Department geek tragedy Sep 2013 #218

*lol* Hydra Sep 2013 #210

So, you think Obama's in on the cover up of the fact that the US government intentionally geek tragedy Sep 2013 #219

What cover up? Hydra Sep 2013 #223

the subject is 9/11 . n t geek tragedy Sep 2013 #230

Yes, and this happened: Hydra Sep 2013 #239

That certainly reveals gross incompetence. geek tragedy Sep 2013 #243

Did he have Obama's long form too? geek tragedy Sep 2013 #190

"The whole enchilada has been a lie since decision 2000." Enthusiast Sep 2013 #294

It would help to know in what way it's a lie according to him. stevenleser Sep 2013 #183

He says "not one word is true." nt DevonRex Sep 2013 #248

And with that statement, Seymour is just another person expressing an opinion. nt bluestate10 Sep 2013 #262

Interesting gopiscrap Sep 2013 #185

And Hersh's evidence is? Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Sep 2013 #186

Yes, I thought investigative journalists, you know, investigated treestar Sep 2013 #196

Supposedly 'it' is in his book, so in a way, I understand why he doesnt want to give it away before stevenleser Sep 2013 #213

Just trying to gin up interest in his book. That is all. nt kelliekat44 Sep 2013 #245

I wouldn't have thought an article like this would generate so much interest. randome Sep 2013 #204

Mostly due to knee jerk Hydra Sep 2013 #211

If the book says anything other than OBL is still alive: here's proof, the article is hype. stevenleser Sep 2013 #212

I saw your post on that Hydra Sep 2013 #214

Exactly. Goodness this is on the same level as those treestar Sep 2013 #253

Wow! i've never heard anyone claim that 9/11 never happened. Not ever.. 2banon Sep 2013 #284

go look up the no planes theory treestar Sep 2013 #290

"I wouldn't have thought an article like this would generate so much interest." EX500rider Sep 2013 #237

Well, the "Obama lied about killing bin Laden" geek tragedy Sep 2013 #247

Wow, you are lucky that your post didn't get hidden. Not that I don't agree with your point, bluestate10 Sep 2013 #263

Meh. If the tinfoil beanie fits . . . nt geek tragedy Sep 2013 #264

omg I thought I signed up to be in the company of Leftists! 2banon Sep 2013 #285

Most leftists are quite sane and reject such tinfoil geek tragedy Sep 2013 #286

tinfoil nuttiness? 2banon Sep 2013 #288

. geek tragedy Sep 2013 #289

That isn't Evidence of Tin Hat CT 2banon Sep 2013 #299

Got your flamey. All better now? Cerridwen Sep 2013 #267

Why did the seal team have guns when they went into OBL's compound, eh? zappaman Sep 2013 #273

For all we know OBL had a pollen allergy. name not needed Sep 2013 #279

After the way our troops were greeted in Baghdad? Wilms Sep 2013 #280

Hard to fucking believe Hobo Sep 2013 #287

To get me to believe Osama Bin Laden was that great boogyman at anyrate.......... nolabels Sep 2013 #301