General Discussion

MADem

(135,425 posts)

52. Well, I don't need to "save" my concerns for one thing over the other.

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 06:04 PM

Sep 2013

I can walk and chew gum, after all.

I think they're both "issues" and I'm not going to go "AAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!" over one and pooh-pooh the other.

And as for "engineered right"--they've got a lot of considerations as they work to "engineer" that sort of system. California isn't a big hard chunk of bedrock. Liquefaction isn't something that can be easily mitigated by engineers--it is a condition of the environment, of the soil. And Northridge revealed a "previously unknown fault"--wouldn't it be a helluva thing if tens of billions were spent and another one of those "previously unknown faults" reared their ugly head?

http://www.conservation.ca.gov/index/news/2004%20news%20releases/Pages/nr2004-01_northridge_quake_anniversary.aspx

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52% want (CA) bullet train stopped, poll finds (LA Times) [View all] pinto Sep 2013 OP

Good the more mass transit we have the better gopiscrap Sep 2013 #1

I love high speed rail but there is little justification for a $ 100 billion investment grantcart Sep 2013 #2

LA to SF/Oakland is the second busiest air route in the US with over 6 millon passengers Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #6

but it would take twice as long in travel time grantcart Sep 2013 #29

Not if you count the time required to travel to the airport, sit around, and go through security Lydia Leftcoast Sep 2013 #41

Who cares? Sen. Walter Sobchak Sep 2013 #45

You added extra time to airline travel but not to rail. former9thward Sep 2013 #47

The only security I've seen on high speed rail is on the Eurostar Lydia Leftcoast Sep 2013 #64

This will be in the U.S. not Europe. former9thward Sep 2013 #65

I've seen security at Amtrak in DC. nt MADem Sep 2013 #68

I didn't need extra time for my HSR experience. RexDart Sep 2013 #99

That will not be your experience in the U.S. former9thward Sep 2013 #119

Still not sure. RexDart Oct 2013 #127

None of those were built post 9/11. former9thward Oct 2013 #128

like heck reddread Sep 2013 #78

As BNW indicated, its a busy route, but also, this is part of a well integrated mass transit system. stevenleser Sep 2013 #9

Agree, we need both. Along with other infrastructure upkeep. pinto Sep 2013 #12

"we need high speed trains connecting regional large cities" -- not necessarily grantcart Sep 2013 #27

"This will be the first that links two urban areas that are wide apart...." A HERETIC I AM Sep 2013 #100

I live in San Luis Obispo county between LA and SanFran Cleita Sep 2013 #26

You can take Amtrak for $ 39 grantcart Sep 2013 #28

You still have to go to Bakersfield and then it's still a six hour trip. n/t Cleita Sep 2013 #31

It only costs about $ 120 to fly one way if you buy 10 days ahead. grantcart Sep 2013 #33

The cheapest I could find from here to SFO was $400 Cleita Sep 2013 #34

Thanks for the suggestion though. Cleita Sep 2013 #35

SLO doesn't have Southwest KamaAina Sep 2013 #116

For the cost of the HSR, which will serve tourists and business travellers.... Xithras Sep 2013 #108

not true. doing a major high speed link between major metro areas would be huge Pretzel_Warrior Sep 2013 #115

HS travel requires a corridor of several highly dense urban centeres close together. grantcart Sep 2013 #123

I don't see how it is going forward ripcord Sep 2013 #121

I dunno. A bullet train in an earthquake prone area? MADem Sep 2013 #3

Japan is a pretty earthquake prone area. enlightenment Sep 2013 #4

See post seven! nt MADem Sep 2013 #8

True - enlightenment Sep 2013 #11

I don't really have a position--as I said, I have no dog in this fight. MADem Sep 2013 #15

I understand you're just speaking philosophically enlightenment Sep 2013 #16

I'd like to see us, as a nation, fix up AMTRAK in a big way. I LOVE train travel. MADem Sep 2013 #19

Dang. enlightenment Sep 2013 #38

I've availed myself of Japanese public transit, as well as the European system(s), MADem Sep 2013 #42

Absolutely agree. enlightenment Sep 2013 #49

We have the ACELA to NYC and DC. MADem Sep 2013 #56

That's a shame. enlightenment Sep 2013 #57

The government subsidizes AMTRAK to the tune of something like thirty some odd bucks a passenger. MADem Sep 2013 #61

The truckers, fearing trains? Ha! mwooldri Sep 2013 #74

I was serious. MADem Sep 2013 #75

And yet Japan has pioneered high speed rail.... Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #5

Yeah, they also have a reactor melting down and are in a huge mess. MADem Sep 2013 #7

Shit, in that case, why build anything here? Iggo Sep 2013 #13

Not my point(s), but nice dismissal. MADem Sep 2013 #17

We have freeways all over the state that are engineered to Cleita Sep 2013 #36

As I said, I was in the Loma Prieta quake. Not the worst quake in terms of the numbers, either... MADem Sep 2013 #46

We learned structural lessons from that quake and Cleita Sep 2013 #48

Well, I don't need to "save" my concerns for one thing over the other. MADem Sep 2013 #52

If anyone in California felt as you do, they would Cleita Sep 2013 #53

Well, from the OP article posted, it looks like more than "anyone" feels like you say I do. MADem Sep 2013 #59

Frankly, I'm more concerned about the off shore fracking Cleita Sep 2013 #62

Anything that causes an earthquake, fracking included, would impact this project and would MADem Sep 2013 #67

If the engineers do their job, it would be. n/t Cleita Sep 2013 #69

That's a big "if"--and even if they do due diligence, we don't have a lot of data on exactly how MADem Sep 2013 #70

This isn't Texas. We actually expect more from our Cleita Sep 2013 #71

Well, Loma Prieta wasn't back in the dark ages. And that was some major infrastructure failure. MADem Sep 2013 #72

Those were decades ago.n/t Cleita Sep 2013 #73

There are plenty of more recent examples. MADem Sep 2013 #96

Okay, now I find you are making me repeat myself which Cleita Sep 2013 #97

Well, let me repeat myself as well, then. MADem Sep 2013 #98

it is a circus of compromise reddread Sep 2013 #80

I have driven the 5 and 99 many times over the years and they are Cleita Sep 2013 #95

oh really? reddread Sep 2013 #124

rode that one out at ground zero, where were you? reddread Sep 2013 #81

WOW--you must have been terrified! MADem Sep 2013 #93

wasnt smart enough to be really scared, but two weeks later- reddread Sep 2013 #94

It's a toy for the rich XemaSab Sep 2013 #10

Exactly, but it is highly questionable whether the rich would spend the EXTRA time needed grantcart Sep 2013 #30

You guys make me laugh. The rich fly private jets from airports you don't use. Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #83

divine comedy reddread Sep 2013 #85

The bulk of the SFO/LAX traffic is not "the rich" its business traffic grantcart Sep 2013 #90

its not either/or reddread Sep 2013 #79

Not the rich, but the business class and tourists. Xithras Sep 2013 #106

It is a bad idea that will be poorly executed Throd Sep 2013 #14

My Assemblywoman, Diane Harkey, had only one thing to say in her ballot statement dogknob Sep 2013 #18

Diane Harkey who you are promoting here as reasonable is a right wing Republican Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #86

I guess I am one of the 48% in favor of this project...This connection is going to happen.. Tikki Sep 2013 #20

Good point. pinto Sep 2013 #21

+1 nt Live and Learn Sep 2013 #50

i agree noiretextatique Sep 2013 #105

The person at the LA Times who came up with the title should be fired. stevenleser Sep 2013 #22

Agree. They cherry picked the survey for the headline. There's more to the picture, as you note. pinto Sep 2013 #23

thats why people pay money reddread Sep 2013 #82

No, it's not. They don't buy newspapers to be misled. stevenleser Sep 2013 #88

they BUY newspapers reddread Sep 2013 #89

Has anyone traced the money behind this opposition...? Wounded Bear Sep 2013 #24

The Central Valley is prime for HSR. I agree with other comments about local mass transit, as well. pinto Sep 2013 #25

The money behind the report saying that it is unfeasible? The legislation that passed it: grantcart Sep 2013 #32

Check trucking money, too, if you're going to look at 'cui bono.' MADem Sep 2013 #43

try selling that to Wal-Mart reddread Sep 2013 #87

So perhaps they're part of the anti-train lobby, then... ? nt MADem Sep 2013 #91

no idea reddread Sep 2013 #92

Who Killed the Electric Car reddread Sep 2013 #84

Bottom line: Future Soaring Fuel Costs Will Make The Public Demand Better Mass Transportation System Yavin4 Sep 2013 #37

I don't know enough about all the specifics but certainly our country desperately needs to develop Douglas Carpenter Sep 2013 #39

Calling Bill Maher otohara Sep 2013 #40

Stopped, as thought it were in motion in the first place? Sen. Walter Sobchak Sep 2013 #44

The project is bringing much needed federal funding and will create jobs. Live and Learn Sep 2013 #51

Yep, I agree. Cleita Sep 2013 #55

I suggest building a gimungous kevlar vest, somewhere around King City. Warren DeMontague Sep 2013 #54

You'd think with a name like BULLET train, it would get widespread conservative support. JEFF9K Sep 2013 #58

They should call it the Stand Your Ground Train, then! nt MADem Sep 2013 #60

Anything to avoid LAX. Calista241 Sep 2013 #63

I despise LAX, but unfortunately, Lydia Leftcoast Sep 2013 #66

Improving commuter rail would take more cars off the road for less money. LeftyMom Sep 2013 #76

"Variably punctual!" LOL!!! MADem Sep 2013 #101

ordinary Niceguy1 Sep 2013 #109

Running BART into the Sacramento and San Juaquin valleys LeftyMom Sep 2013 #110

I should think it would be cheaper, too....way more bang for buck. nt MADem Sep 2013 #117

What is needed is a line from San Diego to Vancouver BC davidpdx Sep 2013 #77

AMTRAK's Coast Starlight - pinto Sep 2013 #103

Been there, done that davidpdx Sep 2013 #120

How about a referendum diverting the funds from the current, designed to fail project, Egalitarian Thug Sep 2013 #102

That was an interesting and doable proposal. But who would it serve? pinto Sep 2013 #104

The benefits are significant and numerous; Egalitarian Thug Sep 2013 #107

Ah, good points. pinto Sep 2013 #118

And it's a good one. If we had anyone left in government working for the people, Egalitarian Thug Oct 2013 #125

Pay to shuttle Californians to Nevada to waste money? LeftyMom Sep 2013 #111

That's just silly. In the first place, Californians already come to Vegas and nothings going Egalitarian Thug Sep 2013 #113

How about doing both? maxsolomon Sep 2013 #112

I think doing the Vegas > LA leg would make the other(s) more likely to happen. Egalitarian Thug Sep 2013 #114

Because of right-of-way issues, it's Victorville to Vegas Nevernose Sep 2013 #122

You're right and that was the poison pill they used to kill it. Victorville? Really? n/t Egalitarian Thug Oct 2013 #126