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TheKentuckian

(26,314 posts)
72. So have you and yours. You have established and full throatedly supported a death spiral
Sun Dec 18, 2011, 04:00 PM
Dec 2011

of short term small wins without any regard for the long term misery caused or any plausible exit strategy from a race to the bottom limited only by finding a bottom to TeaPubliKlan depravity, the avarice of the wealthy, the stomach of the powerful to behave lawlessly, and Mother Earth's capacity to take the hits.

There is no responsibility taken by the proponents of the establishment for the results of seeking to join the opposition rather than beating them, assimilating their failed policies, or legitimizing and reenforcing their wicked ideology. How many times can you legitimize, coddle, defend, legitimize, and assimilate the opposition and still be credible as opposition.

Adjust the target of your game theory to stopping the Republican ideology, you'll find we aren't doing so well since our "successes" are built on such.
"Winning is the starting point of a long, tough road, not the end by any stretch.

Call it terrorism, I call it imposing will to survive and grow as a people with what tools that are available rather than the ones I wish I had or that those benefiting from or comfortable in a rigged game say are appropriate.
Especially, when can draw on memory of what they did and how they did it.

I have no issue with borrowing succesful tactics and have heard all of the excuses and self defeating platitudes before, right out of my own little toady, myopic, corraled, and hand to mouth mentality driven lips.
I'm good with giving the Turd Way an option between legislating to benefit the people instead of the multinationals, the MIC, the extraction industry, the insurance cartel, and the predator class in the financial sector or they can kick rocks and throw in fully with the TeaPubliKlans.

I see a dedication to a toxic ideology that is built on Reagan Republicanism but without the focus on the churchy horseshit (though not abandoned but measurable reduced) and with enough connection to reason to know that at least the idea of saftey nets can be valuable in keeping folks off the barricades and can make a tide piece of change for industry disquised as doing what is popular to win.

I think the long term interest of the people may be helped considerably by lifting this fog. We are being herded and we cannot be a free people being driven by a few for their own designs and profit.

I'm not much of a third party guy, I have not intention of ceding the infrastucture, brand reconition, automatic spots on ballots, history of accomplishment, and emotional devotees that are dedicated automatic votes to ideological intelopers. It is nothing but a clear choice presented.

Some folks point to the election and say their are only two choices, others can take the policy to black and white stark terms as well. I don't give a rat's ass who the candidate is or their race, religion (or lack of such), education, personal narrative, what their family is like or if they have one, orientation, sexual habits, personal habits, or gender.
Pick whatever package you like but it should be clear that certain contents will never make it to the game again win, lose, or draw and if they somehow sneak in there the consequences will suspend the game and push it to the point of breaking.

People going non-voter adds to the fog and token votes allow for the idea that a similar percentage can be mined from the "center" by becoming a bit more like the opposition. Hell, the actual game being played isn't really even that but much closer to being as close to the opposition as possible and maintain enough constituencies to win that are a distinct fundraising base that still emotionally feels the opposition is opposition rather than something more like competitive cooperation, like the NFL or the NBA, they are in league all one distinct entity working for a common purpose that uses the competion as a means to the common purposes profit, indvidual enhancement, and marketshare for the entity.

By the by, I wonder if this push on terrorism is in part to set up an atmosphere where one cannot say no to bad rubbish without "holding people hostage" or "throwing away lives with your own" and all the other poor me backwash of the sort. Especially, from those that live by just such tactics to forge an arguably false and obviously testy consensus.

I figure if there is to be a a testy and forced consensus in any event then it might as well be one that bends toward reducing economic disparity, equality, the strengthing of civil liberties, protecting our environment, away from corporate power and capture of our government, toward dismantling the police state, and redirecting resources from the military industrial complex.

Somebody is going to feel coerced and screwed over, let it be those that have another outlet for their failed and borrowed ideology.
Accept beneficial policy for the people and for the advancement of the concept of justice or get the religilous to lighten up, get the bigots under control, and sell the minimal social programs as pro-growth and stability for commerce that is more effective than imposed order to allow safe commerce, as you know they are.

I do appreciate the illustration that "terrorisim" is very much in the eye of the audience and how much relative power has in the context of a given system to dictate rules to their advantage in driving that narrative, though.

We have responded poorly because we assumed and cultivated a privileged position while being driven by fear and this is similar logic.
To b supposedly or genuinely afraid of the opposition that we accept executing their broad agenda under better management is a loss on my board, management is a backburner issue and arguable better execution of horrible policy is more dangerous than doing a bad thing poorly.

I honestly don't care what you call it or how it makes some folks feel, there is never much crying as the few exploit and extract as long as the right face is on it with palatble excuses and rhetoric tuned to the audience.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Kind of a pointless question, Obama is already our nominee. tridim Dec 2011 #1
If he is, then why the continued attacks here by so-called 'progressives'? MH1 Dec 2011 #69
Because they can. JTFrog Dec 2011 #162
It's pointless because no one who will satisfy the left side of DU exists. JohnnyRingo Dec 2011 #86
Maybe, but it's the Left side that pulls the party in that direction. tblue Dec 2011 #105
I'd bet they don't pull it Left. Extortion is recognized by oppo, which uses the weakening effect of patrice Dec 2011 #115
That's a very good point JohnnyRingo Dec 2011 #135
Yeah, they exist AmericaIsGreat Dec 2011 #150
Good luck with this CakeGrrl Dec 2011 #2
Those who think that are hyperbolic non-realists who'd waste votes on Nader. Nuff said. RBInMaine Dec 2011 #57
Right, and we all know how valid conventional wisdom is: e.g. Invasion & Occupation of Iraq; Deregul patrice Dec 2011 #116
Hi, RB- You are mixing your opinion with fact. Shame on you. MrTriumph Dec 2011 #3
OK, please explain exactly how Dennis Kucinich could win. (I think you need to find the planet.) RBInMaine Dec 2011 #56
50? Name them. RBInMaine Dec 2011 #58
I'm shocked that you think DK or Sanders would be electable JohnnyRingo Dec 2011 #87
Can you please name me a Democrat that Fox would not call an extreme leftist? Bjorn Against Dec 2011 #97
fact is it matters what fox says. even more so it matters what RW radio says to 50 mil a week certainot Dec 2011 #134
While I don't disagree with that it does not answer my question at all. Bjorn Against Dec 2011 #137
it's not a matter of winning their support. we let them decide where the center is and how the certainot Dec 2011 #142
Just explain how ONE of your fifty could win the election, realistically. pnwmom Dec 2011 #100
I'd settle for anyone in your list and I don't care if we don't win. Warren Stupidity Dec 2011 #4
You don't care it we don't win? drm604 Dec 2011 #9
Yes I am willing to take a few hits if we can turn that into progress. Warren Stupidity Dec 2011 #12
Well then drm604 Dec 2011 #16
I'm sure most people are so disgusted with both parties that they don't bother to vote. Warren Stupidity Dec 2011 #17
Even if you think that it's okay to sacrifice people who don't vote drm604 Dec 2011 #20
why? We just get more of the same either way. Warren Stupidity Dec 2011 #41
You may believe that there would be no meaningful changes, but you're wrong. drm604 Dec 2011 #42
Quoting a Republican disagreeing with the President? A Simple Game Dec 2011 #63
I'm sorry but your response confuses me. drm604 Dec 2011 #71
What makes you think there will ever be "huge changes," as you define the term? BzaDem Dec 2011 #84
Question Hippo_Tron Dec 2011 #85
I don't know whether that would have happened under a Gore or Kerry Administration MNBrewer Dec 2011 #159
Then they have no need to bitch a single syllable. And they can go back to the sandbox and play. RBInMaine Dec 2011 #60
" bitch a single syllable" nt. Warren Stupidity Dec 2011 #73
that's what the media is selling, and they thank you for buying Whisp Dec 2011 #112
"I am willing to take a few hits if we can turn that into progress." MilesColtrane Dec 2011 #34
You're awfully trusting of the GOP, to think that CakeGrrl Dec 2011 #49
Does "few hits" include people suffering & dying from lack of appropriate health care, patrice Dec 2011 #117
yes exactly. I am sick and tired of getting more of the same and being told I should be happy Warren Stupidity Dec 2011 #45
You're answering me a second time? drm604 Dec 2011 #50
I don't think there is time to get something better for myself, A Simple Game Dec 2011 #65
So? All of us have lists of things that we do, despite being "sick and tired" of them. BzaDem Dec 2011 #81
Unreal. You do understand this a Democratic forum don't you? tridim Dec 2011 #11
yes I do - did you have a point, or are you just making thinly veiled threats? Warren Stupidity Dec 2011 #14
I alerted with a TOS check. LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #21
oh good for you! Warren Stupidity Dec 2011 #39
The Goldwater splinterization was precisely what enabled Democrats to pass the great society. BzaDem Dec 2011 #75
And it won't even necessarily do that! It REALLY could drive them in the opposite direction from patrice Dec 2011 #118
what he's saying is true after Obama's next 4 years: who will secure the D win then? It is an open StarsInHerHair Dec 2011 #143
Not a threat, a statement of fact. tridim Dec 2011 #22
Actually it's not just for Democrats. Iggo Dec 2011 #26
It's for people who support voting for Democrats. tridim Dec 2011 #28
Support is a funny word, especially around here. Iggo Dec 2011 #30
at least be honest. You made a threat. And now you are making another one. Warren Stupidity Dec 2011 #52
yeah these supporters have gone way over the edge now alerting on threads that do not deserve it StarsInHerHair Dec 2011 #144
People that don't think Obama is the best candidate are anti Democrat? A Simple Game Dec 2011 #68
"... don't we?" Oh come on, almost no one posts under his/her real name around here, who knows patrice Dec 2011 #123
except that it isn't any more, sadly. dionysus Dec 2011 #51
"Otherwise it is just more of the same" LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #19
Pay attention to the argument. Warren Stupidity Dec 2011 #46
+1 rtassi Dec 2011 #108
Your best guess: How long a term? Culminating in what kind of party agenda? patrice Dec 2011 #119
I don't know how long. Warren Stupidity Dec 2011 #167
So have you and yours. You have established and full throatedly supported a death spiral TheKentuckian Dec 2011 #72
well put TheKentuckian StarsInHerHair Dec 2011 #146
Wonderful post dreamnightwind Dec 2011 #157
I nominate Warren Stupidity to primary Obama! Itchinjim Dec 2011 #44
I'm sorry but the Stupidity Ticket is already filled to overflowing. Warren Stupidity Dec 2011 #47
bet every problem will be solved in 1 hour Whisp Dec 2011 #113
"Lose elections to make progress."???????????????????? Nuff said. RBInMaine Dec 2011 #54
see goldwater '64. nt. Warren Stupidity Dec 2011 #59
I've seen this idea raised before - Summer Hathaway Dec 2011 #74
You mean "thoroughly hated" like Reagan? JohnnyRingo Dec 2011 #89
We already tried your method when we lost to George Bush twice. pnwmom Dec 2011 #101
They have no answer for you. They'd rather froth at the mouth than deal with reality. MjolnirTime Dec 2011 #5
thanks for the broad brush smear. I answered the OP above. Warren Stupidity Dec 2011 #6
It's not a broad brush. It applies to a very small, very vocal group of Obama deriders. MjolnirTime Dec 2011 #7
where small equals around half of the active participants of DU. Warren Stupidity Dec 2011 #10
between 100-200 is not even close to half of DUs active participants MjolnirTime Dec 2011 #13
I see. You are sure of those numbers? Warren Stupidity Dec 2011 #15
With the new functionality to see who is making recs, it is clear. MjolnirTime Dec 2011 #23
Likewise. Edweird Dec 2011 #32
Make it 201 Charlemagne Dec 2011 #147
Hell there are 95 avowed SOCIALISTS on DU socialist_n_TN Dec 2011 #25
Sure, there are plenty of non-socialist liberals. But most of them support Obama for re-election. BzaDem Dec 2011 #78
There's a difference between voting for Obama socialist_n_TN Dec 2011 #138
You've read DU wrong. People here accept he will be the nominee, they just wish he was more liberal bettyellen Dec 2011 #8
You can "wish" for it to rain ham sandwiches too. Someone "more liberal" CAN NOT WIN THE ELECTION. RBInMaine Dec 2011 #55
your opinions amuse me. But your angry tone make me hope you're not out there stumpimg. bettyellen Dec 2011 #61
I think the saddest thing is that we DID elect a someone more liberal. Then he showed his true aka-chmeee Dec 2011 #80
Dup Self Delete. snagglepuss Dec 2011 #82
DING DING DING We have a winner. snagglepuss Dec 2011 #83
I cannot imagine how anyone could have taken candidate Obama for anything like a Liberal. patrice Dec 2011 #120
Yeah, it is the craziest thing. emulatorloo Dec 2011 #128
We could always make the claim that he is actually MORE Liberal than how he presented himself, with patrice Dec 2011 #131
Do you think not knowing about the Derivative Crash of '08 might have had an effect upon patrice Dec 2011 #121
So the solution to the crash & economic crisis Charlemagne Dec 2011 #153
Tell me what he was supposed to do about what he DIDN'T KNOW about that crash. patrice Dec 2011 #154
+1 Charlemagne Dec 2011 #148
I agree. Progressives were duped. Obama talked a lot about "change" LibDemAlways Dec 2011 #160
partly because you and other obama supporters refuse to move left. tomp Dec 2011 #155
Wow! I've seen posts that went waaaay beyond "wishing". JohnnyRingo Dec 2011 #92
I actually think that Bernie could win socialist_n_TN Dec 2011 #18
I agree with this, BUT: Ship of Fools Dec 2011 #40
Pick any name libtodeath Dec 2011 #24
So do that and Utah, Idaho, Alabama, Texas, and Mississippi are going to turn bright blue? Ya right. RBInMaine Dec 2011 #62
So which one of those states did Obama win in the last election? Bjorn Against Dec 2011 #98
Actually those tactics would work, being bold, speaking in one voice, WHEN CRABS ROAR Dec 2011 #106
Would it matter if they have no support in congress? abelenkpe Dec 2011 #27
I'm thinking Gov. Brian Schweitzer or Elizabeth Warren in 2016. It's way too late Zorra Dec 2011 #29
100% agree mvd Dec 2011 #33
Remember now that Schweitzer is gun advocate. No where near a purist "progressive." But I agree RBInMaine Dec 2011 #64
well that was the other part of your argument that was insulting and silly. Warren Stupidity Dec 2011 #67
I have to say anyone who can get elected statewide in Ohio dsc Dec 2011 #31
Brown Charlemagne Dec 2011 #145
Depends who they're up against Ter Dec 2011 #35
The focus on personalities instead of principles and issues is the problem, not the solution saras Dec 2011 #36
+1 rtassi Dec 2011 #109
You know, most of us aren't proud of the system. We know what it is and that's why we disagree patrice Dec 2011 #132
Oh boy ... Ship of Fools Dec 2011 #37
OBVIOUSLY this is not plausible in 2012. There is no choice but to support Obama's reelction Douglas Carpenter Dec 2011 #38
I'm sick of voting for the best reformer of capitalism, to be honest. nt Modern_Matthew Dec 2011 #43
Even Bernie Sanders and Dennis Kucinich are reformers of capitalism Douglas Carpenter Dec 2011 #48
We've had a long string of 'capitalism reformers'. Warren Stupidity Dec 2011 #53
So? Lots of people do things they are sick of. Just because you are sick of something does not mean BzaDem Dec 2011 #79
Now there is a winning poliltical theme! 'Abandon all hope of change' Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #88
But it doesn't apply to most people. It merely applies to people whose definition of "change" BzaDem Dec 2011 #96
Ah yes, capitalistic "realism" rears it's ugly head socialist_n_TN Dec 2011 #133
It doesn't need to be 1980 for it to be true that capitalism isn't going anywhere. BzaDem Dec 2011 #161
Silly to you maybe. And to the owners themselves? Sure..... socialist_n_TN Dec 2011 #165
Even if those people were President, they'd still be President of the same country treestar Dec 2011 #66
Few who criticize policy would want to elect a 'red communist' and that sort of tripe is what Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #90
A more progressive candidate will be nominated. But, he/she probably won't win. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2011 #70
Anyone more progressive. Tired of playing ball on the Republican home field. mmonk Dec 2011 #76
Two words: Citizens United nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #77
No time this time unless history makes a tide unpredicted Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #91
Canidate castnet55 Dec 2011 #93
K&R -- Good point. No one we might ideally choose would win. nt gateley Dec 2011 #94
I will tell you how we win, by not giving up and letting you tell us that we can't win. Bjorn Against Dec 2011 #95
+1000 NorthCarolina Dec 2011 #103
the same way Obama did Enrique Dec 2011 #99
Assuming Bernie ran as a Democrat, I think he would win. JDPriestly Dec 2011 #102
agreed ... rtassi Dec 2011 #110
If Sanders, Kucinich, Brown or Grayson were in the running, I'd be like "Obama who?". NorthCarolina Dec 2011 #104
Democratic approval for President Obama is consistently around 80% on Gallup. CakeGrrl Dec 2011 #125
And I should care what Gallup says because???? NorthCarolina Dec 2011 #127
Have you been polled? JDPriestly Dec 2011 #129
I'll do you one better: I'll show you how a liberal/progressive can get 365 electoral votes... DRoseDARs Dec 2011 #107
A union supporter who will de-militarize our foreign and domestic policies ... T S Justly Dec 2011 #111
Gen David Patreaus is waiting in the wings.... lib2DaBone Dec 2011 #114
Kind of a sad and pointless post... jimlup Dec 2011 #122
I agree ... but let's move on ... there will be no primary .. JoePhilly Dec 2011 #124
Well said. -nt CakeGrrl Dec 2011 #126
Excellent plan. Good post n/t emulatorloo Dec 2011 #130
1. Kucinich! Sanders! Kucinich! Sanders! 2. Er................ (nt) Nye Bevan Dec 2011 #136
Wow. What a massive misdirection. ChadwickHenryWard Dec 2011 #139
You just don't get it do you? Not worth explaining! n-t Logical Dec 2011 #140
So we give up.. bluestateboomer Dec 2011 #141
If the midterms are any indication, making a smug point is a victory in itself to these guys Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2011 #149
People shouldn't vote based on whether or not they think that person can get 270 electoral votes Cali_Democrat Dec 2011 #151
Who says Sanders and Grayson are not progressive enough? AmericaIsGreat Dec 2011 #152
If what you say is true, voting is not important now anyway. caseymoz Dec 2011 #156
Who ever it is why can't they get tp 270 EVs the same way Obama would? ... GOTV Dec 2011 #158
Bernie Sanders gael Dec 2011 #163
I believe that Somebody who would fight FOR these Progressive Policies & Issues: bvar22 Dec 2011 #164
Is short term winning the only thing that matters? primavera Dec 2011 #166
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Who more "progressiv...»Reply #72