General Discussion

jeff47

(26,549 posts)

214. Because smoking causes more, and more expensive health problems

Reply to questionseverything (Reply #209)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 11:02 AM

Oct 2013

than the alternatives you listed.

Severe alcoholism will eventually destroy your liver, but it takes a lot longer than for smoking to cause it's host of problems. And if the drinking isn't severe, it's probably not going to destroy the liver. Whereas "casual" smoking will still cause health problems.

Overweight is actually not necessarily a problem. Yes, massively overweight is. But they're finding people at "ideal" weight actually die sooner. Being about 20-30lbs overweight seems to result in the longest life (and presumably the least health problems, since it's health problems that kill people). People are just starting to stop blindly following BMI charts and figure out what actually is the "healthiest" weight.

As for the 3x charge, that's because the older people actually see doctors. And have conditions that require long-term and expensive treatment. The average 20-something is unlikely to need health insurance unless they're hit by a bus.

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Penalties for not buying your mandated insurance... [View all] Demo_Chris Oct 2013 OP

This is why I rejected RomneyCare for something better. But, alas, there was no political will in DC blkmusclmachine Oct 2013 #1

All about exemptions: kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #131

I loathe the ACA as it stands to date. Cerridwen Oct 2013 #2

Stop relying on "news sources". Go straight to the facts: kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #132

+1 for this. There's way too much BS flying around. nt IronLionZion Oct 2013 #196

This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Oct 2013 #228

"because you don't have a couple hundred extra a month, that's what you are going to owe" NYC_SKP Oct 2013 #3

we wouldn't want facts to come in the way of feeling outraged nt cash__whatiwant Oct 2013 #28

Outrage rejects you and your horrible facts! HappyMe Oct 2013 #50

From what I can tell, my cost would be $103 a month for a crappy "bronze" plan if I can get the Erose999 Oct 2013 #59

The "savings accounts" are a fucking scam and joke. NYC_SKP Oct 2013 #71

Yep, you're better off with zero coverage. 100% of medical costs is less than 40%. TroglodyteScholar Oct 2013 #200

They do have a point Tien1985 Oct 2013 #206

Couldn't have said it better myself. Unless I get a 100% subsidy, a pay raise without a hike in Erose999 Oct 2013 #212

What you make doesn't always reflect what you can afford. n/t ohheckyeah Oct 2013 #130

This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Oct 2013 #230

You fail to mention the benefits to those who don't have enough income Cali_Democrat Oct 2013 #4

Tax for being poor? tinrobot Oct 2013 #5

Thanks. elleng Oct 2013 #27

the stupid is burning too much? dlwickham Oct 2013 #143

Sure is/was. elleng Oct 2013 #186

Or you get nothing. bunnies Oct 2013 #65

The poor are already taxed and have been for eons. It's called capitalism. nt kelliekat44 Oct 2013 #229

What's a little more regressive tax as long as it benefits those on top. nt adirondacker Oct 2013 #6

Seriously? TroglodyteScholar Oct 2013 #203

If you can't afford the insurance, you will almost certainly qualify for Medicaid. Gravitycollapse Oct 2013 #7

Except in the 22 states that didn't expand Medicaid. n/t PoliticAverse Oct 2013 #14

That isn't the fault of the ACA. it is the local governments Motown_Johnny Oct 2013 #18

Not only that - Ms. Toad Oct 2013 #24

+1 ~ GOP states offer little help on buying insurance Zorra Oct 2013 #25

NM's an exception, Republican governor made smart decision Voice for Peace Oct 2013 #110

Surely the ACA could have been fixed. bunnies Oct 2013 #68

By that time it was too late, as Republicans controlled the House and the Democrats PoliticAverse Oct 2013 #138

I still would have like a vote forced. bunnies Oct 2013 #145

Well they're trying to delay the entire PPACA's implementation right now. n/t PoliticAverse Oct 2013 #148

True enough. bunnies Oct 2013 #150

Blame the legislatures of those states. Stop blaming Obama and the ACA. kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #136

People are exempt from the fines in states that didn't expand loyalsister Oct 2013 #195

Even in those states, the formula for qualifying for Medicaid changes in Jan. JCMach1 Oct 2013 #238

You could always get Medicaid if you couldn't afford to pay for your HC. sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #70

Most states Medicaid programs have been running patients through private insurer's plans for years. Hoyt Oct 2013 #79

Which is why we need a National HC system where the money designated sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #89

"You could always get Medicaid if you couldn't afford to pay for your HC." <---- False. winter is coming Oct 2013 #92

For many Medicaid is nothing but a loan with your estate as collateral. duffyduff Oct 2013 #127

This is true. I wonder if that will ever stop being the case? GreenPartyVoter Oct 2013 #207

I make too much for Medicaid, Keefer Oct 2013 #93

I'm sorry. Truly. I don't know the answer. I do know that they have been sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #96

Well... Keefer Oct 2013 #194

You don't need anymore stress. Seems there is a lot of confusion sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #219

Ohioans *never* could get Medicaid if they weren't elderly or disabled Kolesar Oct 2013 #226

Not true, It was rather difficult to get Medicaid before the PPACA expansion. n/t PoliticAverse Oct 2013 #141

How will it work now? sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #156

Well if you are in one of the states that went with the PPACA's expanded Medicaid... PoliticAverse Oct 2013 #163

Thank you. It looks like 22 states are not participating. sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #187

Yes they should still remain on Medicaid. What state in particular is this concerning? n/t PoliticAverse Oct 2013 #188

Arizona where I have a friend who is on their version of Medicaid. She sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #189

Yes it surprised some people here but she did... PoliticAverse Oct 2013 #191

Not in many states Sgent Oct 2013 #231

And how will those Southern States change in this regard now? sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #239

And now, the rest of the story pugetres Oct 2013 #8

A shut off notice? Wow.. now THAT is a loophole Motown_Johnny Oct 2013 #19

The keyword there is "may" Trekologer Oct 2013 #197

Please don't give morons ideas. n/t Chan790 Oct 2013 #199

Don't go introductin' actual facts into a good ol' misinformed outrage...nt SidDithers Oct 2013 #31

If your state didn't accept the medicaid increase, then yeah, you're screwed johnd83 Oct 2013 #9

You wouldn't owe a penalty in that case, however. n/t pnwmom Oct 2013 #53

+1 Agschmid Oct 2013 #114

I posted the numbers they came up with... Demo_Chris Oct 2013 #10

I am one who is facing a significant increase in my health cilla4progress Oct 2013 #12

You are leaving out some very important factors of the ACA, Live and Learn Oct 2013 #16

All true. cilla4progress Oct 2013 #60

Sorry you're one of the people standing over the cracks Hydra Oct 2013 #39

I know ... I worked in a bankruptcy law firm cilla4progress Oct 2013 #61

The WA Basic Health plan closed because of severe state budget cutbacks -- pnwmom Oct 2013 #54

I wasn't on Basic Health cilla4progress Oct 2013 #62

The Washington Health Program was part of Basic Health. pnwmom Oct 2013 #64

simple, keep your own insurance larkrake Oct 2013 #135

Yep, and you carefully ignored the exemptions written in the law jeff47 Oct 2013 #20

That's complete nonsense. If so, why have a penalty or mandate at all? nt Demo_Chris Oct 2013 #21

Because the exemptions cover the people you are worried about, not everyone. jeff47 Oct 2013 #22

There is no point going around on this... Demo_Chris Oct 2013 #45

Where is your data that, aside from the people who live in the states pnwmom Oct 2013 #63

None of these people would be elegible in ANY state, nor were any of them evil smokers... Demo_Chris Oct 2013 #151

I'm sure those people exist, and almost all of them could easily get a waiver. pnwmom Oct 2013 #158

You keep bringing up that I am a smoker, yet none of the numbers I have posted are for smokers... Demo_Chris Oct 2013 #164

Because you already told me that your smoking is why you can't afford pnwmom Oct 2013 #169

odd nothing out was singles out as questionseverything Oct 2013 #209

Because smoking causes more, and more expensive health problems jeff47 Oct 2013 #214

i understand the smokers are the dems questionseverything Oct 2013 #221

So....the problem is my casual wording jeff47 Oct 2013 #232

it is not about me at all questionseverything Oct 2013 #234

So now people have to mess with their credit and bills sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #192

We didn't have enough Democratic votes for a public option. pnwmom Oct 2013 #193

It's not that hard. jeff47 Oct 2013 #215

no he opposed mandates questionseverything Oct 2013 #224

And then he bothered to think about it for more than a minute. jeff47 Oct 2013 #233

the snark is why we can not fix stuff questionseverything Oct 2013 #235

Doesn't matter that you bought it for 30 years jeff47 Oct 2013 #236

I find my phone bill "a significant burden" lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #161

Ah yes. Reality. :eyes: jeff47 Oct 2013 #213

It's not nonsense -- you're simply uninformed, even though you've already pnwmom Oct 2013 #56

You need to do some reading so you can stop sounding so foolish and uninformed. kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #140

Exactly! SammyWinstonJack Oct 2013 #30

Because it doesn't affect them, so it can't be possible Hydra Oct 2013 #42

Yes, the cavalier attitude towards anyone who legitimately cannot afford sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #218

That's one of the things that annoys me about the cheering for this Hydra Oct 2013 #220

Because there are many waivers available from the fine pnwmom Oct 2013 #66

If your are paying attention you will see upaloopa Oct 2013 #36

The ordinary people do want single payer Hydra Oct 2013 #43

We won't "make of it what we will" MattBaggins Oct 2013 #48

This message was self-deleted by its author PowerToThePeople Oct 2013 #11

Kiss your tax refund checks goodbye leftstreet Oct 2013 #13

Or break a finger and end up at the emergency room and owe $7,000 pnwmom Oct 2013 #67

That will still happen leftstreet Oct 2013 #72

There will be a lot LESS for the hospitals to write off. pnwmom Oct 2013 #74

Uh, most writeoffs and settlements are for the insured leftstreet Oct 2013 #75

That's because so many people till now had policies with low limits. pnwmom Oct 2013 #76

No. Cost caps have been delayed leftstreet Oct 2013 #77

Most of the policies I have reviewed have out-of-pocket maximums. missingthebigdog Oct 2013 #144

The caps are delayed only for certain plans using multiple-administrators, not for most plans. PoliticAverse Oct 2013 #157

A lot more people will benefit from ACA than not. darkangel218 Oct 2013 #15

Everyone up to 133% of poverty line now qualifies for Medicaid Motown_Johnny Oct 2013 #17

Except in the 22 states that didn't expand Medicaid. n/t PoliticAverse Oct 2013 #57

And they will have any penalty waived if they don't make enough pnwmom Oct 2013 #69

as I said om post #18 Motown_Johnny Oct 2013 #178

Wow! Healthcare.gov has answers, including exemptions from fee due to hardship. ProSense Oct 2013 #23

+1000 nt ecstatic Oct 2013 #116

Thank you Democrats for supporting the Health Insurance and Healthcare industry bailout Puzzledtraveller Oct 2013 #26

Millions will receive care that before they couldn't get upaloopa Oct 2013 #40

I like the expanded medicaid portion Puzzledtraveller Oct 2013 #44

The mandate has a couple of purposes. It will add the young upaloopa Oct 2013 #49

45,000 people dying every year due to lack of health coverage isn't fair Hippo_Tron Oct 2013 #204

Surprise, surprise more anti-ACA lies from a certain crowd, And they are LIES geek tragedy Oct 2013 #29

The new set of talking points have gone out, I guess...nt SidDithers Oct 2013 #32

On Monday it was "hey, why not agree to the Republicans' demand to delay the mandate" geek tragedy Oct 2013 #34

You are not including the subsidies that should be subtracted from the total so that is inaccurate. appleannie1 Oct 2013 #33

This is a rather poor effort at trolling Capt. Obvious Oct 2013 #35

You'll get flak for this Hydra Oct 2013 #37

Part of it depends on the definition of "can't afford." pnwmom Oct 2013 #73

I ran the numbers for my situation Hydra Oct 2013 #80

You hit several nails on the head. Puzzledtraveller Oct 2013 #87

The common thread I've seen on DU Hydra Oct 2013 #91

You're assuming you don't get cancer or some other catastrophic illness Hippo_Tron Oct 2013 #208

Ah, but that's the problem Hydra Oct 2013 #216

Who will die because of the ACA and how? Hippo_Tron Oct 2013 #222

Take the penalty, save up, and immigrate to a country that cares about its citizens NoOneMan Oct 2013 #38

^^this^^ Puzzledtraveller Oct 2013 #46

Don't think of it as a tax for being poor, think of it as poor people hughee99 Oct 2013 #41

That's how a lot of this system works and why rates are going down NoOneMan Oct 2013 #47

Yep. enlightenment Oct 2013 #88

great post nt Demo_Chris Oct 2013 #159

Not necessarily. There is a possible waiver available for people pnwmom Oct 2013 #51

See this post... Demo_Chris Oct 2013 #55

All you need is one shut-off notice -- which you can then pay -- pnwmom Oct 2013 #153

Slow down jasper zipplewrath Oct 2013 #172

That must be regional then. pnwmom Oct 2013 #175

Was it your first? zipplewrath Oct 2013 #183

Exemptions from the fine: kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #147

I have NEVER understood the name of this publication "Christian Science" snooper2 Oct 2013 #52

Because of its affiliation with the Church of Christian Scientist PeaceNikki Oct 2013 #58

Yep. The Obama Administration even argued before the Supreme Court that it was a tax. AnotherMcIntosh Oct 2013 #78

An absolute lie. Drunken Irishman Oct 2013 #81

Number 2 is dishonest at best Hydra Oct 2013 #83

It's absolutely honest... Drunken Irishman Oct 2013 #84

You haven't done the numbers Hydra Oct 2013 #103

You didn't read my post, then... Drunken Irishman Oct 2013 #198

Well, believe it or not Hydra Oct 2013 #202

I'm not in any hole because I have employer based health insurance. Drunken Irishman Oct 2013 #205

Next, we'll have to solve the problem of homelessness. AnotherMcIntosh Oct 2013 #82

A mandate-solution would not be perfect, but it would help some and we could fix it later. AnotherMcIntosh Oct 2013 #85

You've definitely struck a chord. It's telling that in all this falderal, no one seems to want to Egalitarian Thug Oct 2013 #86

This is such ProSense Oct 2013 #94

See? Egalitarian Thug Oct 2013 #95

"See" what? ProSense Oct 2013 #97

"...no one seems to want to talk about health care. Egalitarian Thug Oct 2013 #100

Oh please. ProSense Oct 2013 #102

See reality: ProSense Oct 2013 #99

That, plus why disrupt the touch-down dance? Puzzledtraveller Oct 2013 #101

If the penalities are so bad then why are most exchanges jambed... Historic NY Oct 2013 #90

a) there is no collection mechanism. lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #98

*lmao* Hydra Oct 2013 #106

You can save it for *now*, if you like. lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #111

Scotus says it's a legal tax Hydra Oct 2013 #113

Their only "teeth" is deducting the penalty from any refund you may be entitled. n/t lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #119

Like I said, I'm saving this Hydra Oct 2013 #121

Okee doke. lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #124

They keep your tax return money n/t leftstreet Oct 2013 #112

If you get a refund, but choose not to spend it on medical insurance, then good. lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #129

Yeah, working class people buys yachts with their returns leftstreet Oct 2013 #134

Thanks. nt adirondacker Oct 2013 #237

2% of the total population will be required to pay the penalty. Raine1967 Oct 2013 #104

DU doesn't understand what it's like to be poor Prism Oct 2013 #105

I've never been so poor that my life wouldn't have been a top 5 priority. lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #107

You're fortunate in that way. Prism Oct 2013 #128

Thanks for laying it out so bluntly Hydra Oct 2013 #108

This is insulting, and ProSense Oct 2013 #118

Not so insulting that it stops people from lecturing the struggling. Prism Oct 2013 #125

I don't know anyone 400% or more of FPL who is struggling for any reason other than medical debt. lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #133

We're not discussing the same things Prism Oct 2013 #146

You seem to be implying ProSense Oct 2013 #137

It will help some and not others. Prism Oct 2013 #149

Bull shit. Plenty of DUers have serious financial struggles. Some ongoing, some sporadic. kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #152

Just stop Prism Oct 2013 #160

It's astonishing. They are flat refusing to admit that there are millions... Demo_Chris Oct 2013 #165

Your point is absurd ProSense Oct 2013 #174

Not indifferent at all. lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #167

We seem to be concerned about different population segments n/t Prism Oct 2013 #170

As did the guy who won the election. n/t PoliticAverse Oct 2013 #180

any SPHC system would have likely resulted in across the board tax increases, as well. Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #211

No system is perfect Prism Oct 2013 #217

I just don't get Sgent Oct 2013 #240

Wouldn't anyone who couldn't afford Obamacare get a subsidy or qualify for Medicaid? ecstatic Oct 2013 #109

Yes. A childless couple making $62,039 without employer provided ins. qualifies for subsidy. nt lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #115

Yes and no Hydra Oct 2013 #117

There are a number of preventive services with no deductibles and copays. If you get really sick Hoyt Oct 2013 #154

It's a matter of scale Hydra Oct 2013 #168

If you need a kidney transplant, do you honestly think most hospitals will say no over $2,500. Hoyt Oct 2013 #173

I'm fine, but there are people who won't be, and I used to be in that category Hydra Oct 2013 #176

I believe more people will be helped. And those that aren't should be on short-list for help. Hoyt Oct 2013 #177

Haha Hydra Oct 2013 #185

Nope. If your state hasn't expanded Medicaid, it's possible to be ineligible for a subsidy winter is coming Oct 2013 #122

I don't think this is true. lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #155

I didn't say anything specific about the % of FPL. winter is coming Oct 2013 #166

You're right. I stand corrected. lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #171

Yes if you'd be eligible for Medicaid except your state isn't participating you don't have to pay PoliticAverse Oct 2013 #181

Thank you for conveniently omitting the many EXEMPTIONS from the fine. kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #120

You still have to pay back Medicaid if you are 55 and older. duffyduff Oct 2013 #126

You are referring to the Medicaid Estate Recovery program, more info which can be found here... PoliticAverse Oct 2013 #179

They'll just take it out of any refund you may owe. duffyduff Oct 2013 #123

Astonishing. virgogal Oct 2013 #139

Exemptions from the fine/penalty: kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #162

Thanks for that link Post in haste,repent in leisure. virgogal Oct 2013 #182

that's what I thought until I read that under a certain income level you are exempt from the penalty magical thyme Oct 2013 #142

It's a "crack" zipplewrath Oct 2013 #184

I expect to fall through the crack magical thyme Oct 2013 #190

Can anyone familiar with the subject truly take this post seriously? TroglodyteScholar Oct 2013 #201

Facts are facts. You can, if you prefer, live in a fox news type fantasy. That's on you. nt Demo_Chris Oct 2013 #210

Actually, the fact is Sugarcoated Oct 2013 #223

I have posted the NUMBERS... Demo_Chris Oct 2013 #225

This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Oct 2013 #227

WTF is going on lately? Yet another stupid fucking post, re: ACA! n/t ChisolmTrailDem Oct 2013 #241

I know, right? Facts and information are always stupid. What matters are FEELINGS! nt Demo_Chris Oct 2013 #242