General Discussion

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)

133. Atman, I feel your pain.

Sun Dec 18, 2011, 05:49 PM

Dec 2011

I know exactly what you are talking about.

That is what the Obama defenders do not understand. DUers, pro- and anti-Obama are going to vote for Obama. But what about the rest of the country? They look at the polls and feel reassured. But it really isn't that easy.

When you look beyond the veneer into the substance of the Obama administration, there are lots of easy campaign ads for Obama's opponents. And Obama himself is to blame for that fact.

Ron Paul is the biggest threat to Obama -- because, although he is frighteningly wrong about most things including his views on economics, Social Security, unions, government regulation and the enforcement of our equal opportunity laws, he is right about a couple of issues that Obama is weak on, and that are in my opinion and the opinion of a lot of people, very important.

The issues on which Ron Paul makes no sense are more numerous than the couple of issues on which he makes good sense.

I don't know what to tell you about your son. Ron Paul is right about the Fed but wrong about economics in general. Ron Paul is right about certain very personal rights and about personal morality and privacy, but so wrong about our need to help each other when we are having a tough time. Ron Paul is right about ending wars but wrong about out role in the world in many other ways.

Obama needs to do much better. That means getting a new team of advisers and gathering new ideas. I don't think he is good at letting people go. I think he fronts for a lot of unsavory types -- like the Wall Street crowd probably without knowing it.

But Ron Paul? No way!!!!

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My son, whose first-ever vote was for Obama, now thinks Ron Paul looks better. [View all] Atman Dec 2011 OP

I won't dismiss anyone's disenchantment with Obama etherealtruth Dec 2011 #1

I think Paul really does represent "change" to many. Atman Dec 2011 #4

I agree that at first glance Ron Paul can seem attractive etherealtruth Dec 2011 #10

Me too. Eddie Haskell Dec 2011 #69

Even if one of those labels were true it would be... Tikki Dec 2011 #120

well let the privatized corporatocracy begin newspeak Dec 2011 #87

As I said, he's a smart kid. I've no doubt he'll regain his sanity. Atman Dec 2011 #96

More than likely he will etherealtruth Dec 2011 #101

Many don't... ellisonz Dec 2011 #116

Believe me, he's not a "Paulite." Atman Dec 2011 #137

Good luck, Atman. ellisonz Dec 2011 #165

Same with two of my nephews Mojorabbit Dec 2011 #173

Look at Ron Paul's voting record. Share with everyone. Zalatix Dec 2011 #167

Thank you, cool website. [nt] Shoe Horn Dec 2011 #190

Just let him know that Paul is a RACIST. That should change his mind. FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #172

Show him this Thread/video--Ron Paul to end student loans!! Rectangle Dec 2011 #223

I don't think this post was intended for me? etherealtruth Dec 2011 #224

That's what Obama gets for being a centrist. SmellyFeet Dec 2011 #2

No, that's what the country gets for having people with no critical thinking skills frazzled Dec 2011 #19

Calling young people canoeist52 Dec 2011 #35

Now, see, you've proved my point frazzled Dec 2011 #46

Why do I get the sense pscot Dec 2011 #111

K&R... stonecutter357 Dec 2011 #152

Way too harsh and insulting! Quantess Dec 2011 #70

Interesting Statements ElboRuum Dec 2011 #118

Please note I'm not saying anything positive about Ron Paul, at all. Quantess Dec 2011 #160

Yes, I think I can understand why they say that... ElboRuum Dec 2011 #166

I've seen plenty who wouldn't touch Paul wih an 89 and a 1/2 foot pole that TheKentuckian Dec 2011 #84

Obama ran on "CHANGE", and donned the mantle of a Progressive during the campaign. NorthCarolina Dec 2011 #168

He said it would be hard and would not come easily frazzled Dec 2011 #180

I don't know.. sendero Dec 2011 #194

Ron Paul is great for civil liberties. For economics not so much. Sirveri Dec 2011 #3

Ron Paul is great for a very limited set of civil liberties only (like coalition_unwilling Dec 2011 #29

He's great unless you're a minority, a child, sick, injured... Johonny Dec 2011 #36

I would go further and classify Paul as a 'reactionary' (not a 'conservative'). He wants coalition_unwilling Dec 2011 #53

you mean the gilded age? newspeak Dec 2011 #88

Good point. It's why I said "supposed 'Golden Age'", to coalition_unwilling Dec 2011 #105

+1 JDPriestly Dec 2011 #138

Other than choice he's fairly consistent. Sirveri Dec 2011 #40

Except for the civil liberties of those "animal" blacks and "disease-ridden" gays. * MADem Dec 2011 #110

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #5

Surprising 41mag Dec 2011 #64

It is exactly what he is. kath Dec 2011 #128

Finally a response that makes sense. CrispyQ Dec 2011 #68

And the most important lesson of all this woo me with science Dec 2011 #149

He's also gaining support from those who would vote Republican who are gateley Dec 2011 #213

Very good point. woo me with science Dec 2011 #219

You are not alone, Atman. LiberalAndProud Dec 2011 #6

Paul has got a huge pass on "Education, Minority Rights, Social Safety Net" because Dems have ceded bettyellen Dec 2011 #73

Re: Social Safety Net, we *have* one. LiberalAndProud Dec 2011 #83

it, like civil rights and education has been eroding steadily and is under attack. bettyellen Dec 2011 #90

yeah, well he's no friend to women newspeak Dec 2011 #89

I'm around a lot of young people thatgemguy Dec 2011 #7

Since 1980, all we've been told is that government is bad, unions are bad, regulation is bad, CrispyQ Dec 2011 #74

Get a clue, all, part of this is about Legalization. Libertarians, rank and file, feel discriminated patrice Dec 2011 #145

There's A Lot Of Talk About Him At Our Occupy Meetings... ChiciB1 Dec 2011 #159

Or do some young people coming of age during recession just have a bad impression of government? alp227 Dec 2011 #183

Hmm, A few years ago I Used to think so too-on the surface fredamae Dec 2011 #8

No, I hate to say it ... frazzled Dec 2011 #9

Oh, so the kids are stupid now, huh? DerekG Dec 2011 #12

'bullshit health-care bills' ? geckosfeet Dec 2011 #37

HCR was a winner for insurance companies (and Newt). MrTriumph Dec 2011 #65

Comparatively little? Tell it to my son. Atman Dec 2011 #77

The ACA made HR 676 possible & that's what a good deal of the Obama-hate is about. patrice Dec 2011 #148

Funny how it doesn't take long for the new posters true feelings to come out. sarcasmo Dec 2011 #81

I believe you replied to the wrong post. If not, please elaborate. geckosfeet Dec 2011 #86

I'm a UAW retiree, and I wouldn't have a pension if not for that Obama "bailout". JohnnyRingo Dec 2011 #123

Santorum must've thought "No more abortion for sluts even though my own wife lived BECAUSE of one." alp227 Dec 2011 #184

We're talking about Ron Paul frazzled Dec 2011 #150

If you actually knew my son, you wouldn't be so insulting. Atman Dec 2011 #16

I didn't say he was a moron: I said he was young frazzled Dec 2011 #20

you said feeble thinking, listens to blather. And, yes it was insulting. bettyellen Dec 2011 #76

get the money out of politics. stonecutter357 Dec 2011 #155

A lot of what he says we can agree with - like NO WAR, but his reasons gateley Dec 2011 #214

Right, us kids are all a bunch of morons! Odin2005 Dec 2011 #18

How could someone reasonably support both OWS and Ron Paul? Orangepeel Dec 2011 #98

Blaming the electorate is the political form of Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #79

Re Feeble thinking SOS Dec 2011 #121

No, they were thinking feebly when they voted ... frazzled Dec 2011 #122

"immediate uptopia" Charronxyz Dec 2011 #161

LOLOLOLOL Skittles Dec 2011 #182

So if they're feeble-minded and subject to propaganda, why did they vote for Obama last time? Doctor_J Dec 2011 #205

That was precisely my point frazzled Dec 2011 #210

"Why progressives should not support Ron Paul" Starry Messenger Dec 2011 #11

Your son thinks political change is instantaneous, or should be. Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #13

Ultimately, I think he'll come around. Atman Dec 2011 #21

You misunderstood the 'smoke dope' part, I was generalizing about Paul's appeal to those who only Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #33

I finally talked son out of Paul. tsuki Dec 2011 #14

Tell him to put down the Doobie. JoePhilly Dec 2011 #15

+1 Inspired Dec 2011 #174

Perhaps your son is libertarian rather than liberal. There is a difference. Jennicut Dec 2011 #17

he has certain big things right, and is the only one SixthSense Dec 2011 #22

The Federal Reserve is a big thing for my daughter as well. LiberalAndProud Dec 2011 #59

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #147

You are not alone. I'm having the same conversation with my son. mainer Dec 2011 #23

This message was self-deleted by its author Tesha Dec 2011 #24

Could it be your son is just not that well-informed? Tell him Paul's position on Civil Rights. MjolnirTime Dec 2011 #25

Just tell him that voting for herpes is better than voting for syphillis or gonnorrhea... OneTenthofOnePercent Dec 2011 #26

I would prefer an easily treatable bacterial infection over a permanent recurring viral one Edweird Dec 2011 #51

I'm thinking your son is actually a libertarian. boxman15 Dec 2011 #27

Many young people are indeed libertarians. mainer Dec 2011 #44

do you think young people are libertarians out of a rebellious attitude from adolescence? alp227 Dec 2011 #185

He should take a good thorough look at Paul's career and convictions mulsh Dec 2011 #28

It's the military spending already! Ron Paul is saying what the Dems should be shouting think Dec 2011 #30

Ron Paul speaks but he does not act. He votes with the rethugs most of the time. He also will not jwirr Dec 2011 #34

Ron Paul voted against the Iraq war unlike many DEMs. That alone speaks volumes think Dec 2011 #48

Technicality, but Congress never did 'declare war' on Iraq. Obama also spoke out coalition_unwilling Dec 2011 #55

I voted for Obama and will again. And yes I do respect that Obama spoke out against the war think Dec 2011 #60

Most of the people who support Paul - especially the young, like my grandson are still hooked to jwirr Dec 2011 #31

That's sort of the problem with a sample size of 1. dems_rightnow Dec 2011 #39

Granted you are probably right. jwirr Dec 2011 #42

Try the "stopped clock is right twice a day metaphor" and take him thru all of Paul's positions emulatorloo Dec 2011 #32

In Paul's ideal world, everyone is responsable only to themselves. baldguy Dec 2011 #38

Well, Ron Paul Won't Win GOP Nomination otohara Dec 2011 #41

Paul is pure nuts Monty22001 Dec 2011 #43

Ron Paul is insane jimlup Dec 2011 #45

This message was self-deleted by its author Atman Dec 2011 #47

I think it might also have to do with the fact BlueToTheBone Dec 2011 #49

Same situation with my 21 year old daughter B2G Dec 2011 #50

Ron Paul would take away your daughter's right to choose. Is she coalition_unwilling Dec 2011 #57

Believe me, we are having those conversations B2G Dec 2011 #61

Your daughter needs to be reminded of how Brown vs. Topeka Board of Education coalition_unwilling Dec 2011 #72

Interesting dilema, as perhaps some in here like Ron Paul and just can't say so ... Ferret Annica Dec 2011 #52

I'd much rather meet Alan Grayson than Ron Paul but I still respect RP for think Dec 2011 #54

I am a former Democrat who adores George McGovern, Wayne Morse, and misses aspects of being Democrat Ferret Annica Dec 2011 #62

Bottom line to Paul is that he has abetted every GOP move toward fascism even as he blm Dec 2011 #56

I don't think you would be speaking quite so dismissively of Paul coalition_unwilling Dec 2011 #66

that is SO not the point...I distinctly said the 'bottom line' with Paul is that he has supported blm Dec 2011 #85

Please don't get me wrong, I'm no big fan of Paul's and actually coalition_unwilling Dec 2011 #104

I get that, but, just because he CAN say something that makes sense, doesn't mean he deserves a pass blm Dec 2011 #106

Fair enough. I tend to think of Paul as that 'crazy uncle' every family (even the Repukes) has coalition_unwilling Dec 2011 #108

They'll run a GOP made man and call him an 'Independent' knowing the mood next year blm Dec 2011 #131

Not many would go from Obama to a racist POS like Ron Paul. DevonRex Dec 2011 #58

I've looked at that claim, and I respectfully disagree with you that he is racist or homophobic Ferret Annica Dec 2011 #63

Do check the link I have offered elsewhere in this thread. nt MADem Dec 2011 #130

I'll look, however I have done extensive reading in Dr. Paul Ferret Annica Dec 2011 #139

Present the evidence. If you can't, you'll forgive me if I suspect you have an agenda here. MADem Dec 2011 #154

This message was self-deleted by its author freshstart Dec 2011 #221

here you go; dionysus Dec 2011 #156

I count five in this thread who have had this conversation with their child or grandchild. LiberalAndProud Dec 2011 #71

We've discussed Paul, but thankfully DevonRex Dec 2011 #75

yeah, what's up with Ron Paul Underground today? dionysus Dec 2011 #153

Had a friend who went from a completely normal kid into a Jesus freak right before my eyes once NNN0LHI Dec 2011 #67

"turned off and disgusted" TBF Dec 2011 #78

Here is a link: PeaceNikki Dec 2011 #80

Tell him to read this, Krugman takes Ron Paul to task BootinUp Dec 2011 #82

very good article. Thanks for posting Douglas Carpenter Dec 2011 #94

Point out that Ron Paul is rabidly anti-abortion and ask him if kestrel91316 Dec 2011 #91

Pauls group answers(Nation) for the Present/Future....frankly... SUCKs....numbers of his are bad opihimoimoi Dec 2011 #92

Paul tells his own truth and avoids politician The Second Stone Dec 2011 #93

Ron Paul looks great right now because he's NOT president. tranche Dec 2011 #95

I can certainly see how a young person could be mesmerized by Ron Paul Douglas Carpenter Dec 2011 #97

His antiwar stance drew me in... Modern_Matthew Dec 2011 #102

Listening to everything else he said was not a mistake. PeaceNikki Dec 2011 #103

I was once an avid Ron Paul supporter... and now I quote Marx and Lenin. nt Modern_Matthew Dec 2011 #99

Ron Paul Threads on DU unionworks Dec 2011 #100

+1 dionysus Dec 2011 #157

Under Ron Paul your son can say goodbye to his Social Security, his Medicare, his National Parks, RBInMaine Dec 2011 #107

Your son perhaps thinks that crazy racist is going to legalize weed. Everything else is just window MADem Dec 2011 #109

Not surprised nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #112

Ron Paul = Libertarian = Anarchist mckara Dec 2011 #113

This is one person treestar Dec 2011 #114

I love this response nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #117

tell him there's a guy on the corner screaming that he's a thief and traitor and so is his father certainot Dec 2011 #115

Excellent post. Obama has lead with concensus. That is the job of the president of a democracy. The Wielding Truth Dec 2011 #126

I wouldn't want to live in a Ron Paul utopia where if you don't work, you don't eat. JohnnyRingo Dec 2011 #119

Give this 1996 link to your son Onlooker Dec 2011 #124

Ron Paul Is Never Going to Get The Nomination Yavin4 Dec 2011 #125

And that is why we have political campaigns grantcart Dec 2011 #127

7-2 Conservative SCOTUS lobodons Dec 2011 #129

Your son needs just look into Paul's opinions about student loans and debt. boppers Dec 2011 #132

Atman, I feel your pain. JDPriestly Dec 2011 #133

The Constitution must GO! donttazemebro Dec 2011 #134

Bullshit Estevan Dec 2011 #136

Here you go..Obama says Constitution is a flawed document donttazemebro Dec 2011 #141

There is NOTHING there that says Estevan Dec 2011 #144

Thanks for dropping by. Recess is over so you will have to go back now. grantcart Dec 2011 #212

... Ian David Dec 2011 #211

You don't have a problem with the incorporation of legal slavery in the Constitution eridani Dec 2011 #220

Tell your son Estevan Dec 2011 #135

I've been saying this since 2008--that we're losing very good people to the Ron Paul types. Puregonzo1188 Dec 2011 #140

Ron Paul Supporters may be terrorist donttazemebro Dec 2011 #142

You've already shown yourself Estevan Dec 2011 #146

It might be too late for a "time out" quaker bill Dec 2011 #143

This message was self-deleted by its author Occupy_2012 Dec 2011 #151

sure, I mean whats the worst that can happen BootinUp Dec 2011 #170

I seriously hope that you can get through to your son The Genealogist Dec 2011 #158

Ron Paul sat back and did nothing when his own SemperEadem Dec 2011 #162

Obviously doesnt know how to vote then. johncoby2 Dec 2011 #163

Paul says let them die if they can't afford insurance. Take away their benefits and let them die ! urbuddha Dec 2011 #164

your son should look broader picture and really analyze what would change under a ron paul La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2011 #169

What does your son think of Jon Huntsman? melonkali Dec 2011 #171

There seems to be a lot of older people talking about younger people in this thread. totodeinhere Dec 2011 #175

Interesting subject for discussion. This is worth it's own post. canoeist52 Dec 2011 #177

I dug up a bunch of stuff on Ron Paul. freshstart Dec 2011 #176

I hope he is not walerosco Dec 2011 #178

Paul wants to make all drug use legal, so kids see his as the cool old guy. nt Kahuna Dec 2011 #179

Gingrich wants poor kids to work, Palestinians to be treated abelenkpe Dec 2011 #181

don't despair DonCoquixote Dec 2011 #186

they already can and do gut the minimum wage SixthSense Dec 2011 #188

Or that he was part of an unelected "shadow cabinet" freshstart Dec 2011 #203

Does your son have positions on free trade, reproductive rights, the Civil Rights Act, alp227 Dec 2011 #187

Ron Paul says here that corporations freshstart Dec 2011 #201

Excellent! Sherman A1 Dec 2011 #189

Support for Ron Paul is not a sign of maturity Scootaloo Dec 2011 #199

I don't believe the OP indicated that his son was supporting Ron Paul Sherman A1 Dec 2011 #216

I don't imagine overturning Roe v. Wade will be much of a problem JNelson6563 Dec 2011 #191

my 23 yo daughter? the same....... her gang feels abandoned politically. right or wrong that piratefish08 Dec 2011 #192

I'm sorry to say. You're daughter is not a critical thinker and may be racist. vaberella Dec 2011 #195

This message was self-deleted by its author Romulox Dec 2011 #207

Aw geez...I just encountered the same thing with an early Obama supporter on a phone bank call. whathehell Dec 2011 #193

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #196

With respect, it's not Obama's fault that your son now supports the joke that is Ron Paul. jefferson_dem Dec 2011 #197

Did he quit baseball when he didn't knock it out of the park on his very first swing? Scootaloo Dec 2011 #198

I can understand disenchantment but rosesaylavee Dec 2011 #200

Ditto for my son. Registered to vote, worked Obamas campaign, etc. Now Ron Paulite. peacebird Dec 2011 #202

I think that Ron Paul is genuine and honest, which is a big part of this appeal. He says what he spicegal Dec 2011 #204

He says what others dare not say and this adds to his appeal as well. Military spending is bleeding think Dec 2011 #209

Maybe because some don't want a racist, anti-choice xenopobe to have any legitmacy at all? Jennicut Dec 2011 #217

Here is an essay that I wrote about Ron Paul a few years ago LeftishBrit Dec 2011 #206

Your son needs to be allowed to make his own choice. Myrina Dec 2011 #208

Liars and the lies they do...... my son introduced me to the movie the matrix Ichingcarpenter Dec 2011 #215

BREAKING: Dinner conversion with son regarding Ron Paul. Atman Dec 2011 #218

I know this may sound strange but proud patriot Dec 2011 #222