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DevonRex

(22,541 posts)

74. She wasn't shot when they had her surrounded. She should have gotten out and given up

Fri Oct 4, 2013, 01:01 AM

Oct 2013

right then. She'd be alive and that child wouldn't have seen her shot dead.

Never forget: until she began ramming WH barriers and speeding over to the Capitol and trying the same thing there, it was a peaceful day in Washington D.C. I don't know why the lady did what she did. But the Capitol and WH Police gave her an opportunity to give herself up. Their professionalism is second to none. Once she took off speeding for the second time, her fate was sealed, as soon as an officer had a clear shot and she wasn't in the process of surrendering.

She had run down an officer, wrecked a police car, tried to breach WH and Capitol security, was endangering civilians and lawmakers alike, not to mention a baby in her own vehicle. And no one knew what she might have in the car that might be detonated at any time.

You can feel free to second guess their professional judgment. The Capitol Police aren't tasked with ensuring attackers are safe; they're tasked with ensuring the safety of the people who work there and visit there.

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They couldn't shoot out the tires? Did this have to end with a woman's death infront of a child. [View all] diabeticman Oct 2013 OP

After she crashed into a police car to escape ... JoePhilly Oct 2013 #1

They couldn't shoot her car instead? Coyotl Oct 2013 #3

They probably shot at the thing that controls the car. JoePhilly Oct 2013 #13

Was there a first grade class in front of her? former9thward Oct 2013 #54

No, downtown DC is a ghost town mid-day.... EX500rider Oct 2013 #177

Not to be a jerk, but aren't you dealing in hypotheticals just as much as the OP? nomorenomore08 Oct 2013 #81

Well, we know that they did not dive on the ground, roll, and then shoot out the tires. JoePhilly Oct 2013 #142

Agreed. n/t nomorenomore08 Oct 2013 #192

I thought the same thing at first, but after watching the video ... MH1 Oct 2013 #16

I'm just amazed that the baby was not injured in the hail of bullets.... TheDebbieDee Oct 2013 #88

Cars can still travel on flat tires ripcord Oct 2013 #152

Cops firing at an fleeing car isn't threatening the public? Cerridwen Oct 2013 #10

She smashed into a police car ... which means she is willing to risk the ives of others. JoePhilly Oct 2013 #17

I'm glad they "knew" that since they apparently Cerridwen Oct 2013 #27

Have you ever visited DC? JoePhilly Oct 2013 #32

So there weren't people in the line of fire and Cerridwen Oct 2013 #35

I have been there plenty of times. former9thward Oct 2013 #56

Right, a person who smashed into a police car is no danger to anyone. JoePhilly Oct 2013 #145

how on earth were they to know she wasn't a danger? cali Oct 2013 #157

She got out of the car unarmed. former9thward Oct 2013 #165

I assume you have law enforcement experience? DragonBorn Oct 2013 #171

At the point she was at she was not a threat to anyone, bomb or no bomb. former9thward Oct 2013 #173

How do you know? DragonBorn Oct 2013 #174

Link? dgibby Oct 2013 #176

Sure. former9thward Oct 2013 #189

Thanks. Appreciate it. n/t dgibby Oct 2013 #190

Sure, going 80mph+ and running lights... EX500rider Oct 2013 #180

We gun down speeders now? former9thward Oct 2013 #188

Yes, she was shot for speeding.. EX500rider Oct 2013 #194

When she was shot she was doing none of that. former9thward Oct 2013 #195

Actually she was shot for doing ALL of that. n/t EX500rider Oct 2013 #198

At least you admitted it. former9thward Oct 2013 #199

And you have seen this or can link to it? Duckhunter935 Oct 2013 #201

Link to what? former9thward Oct 2013 #205

How do you know what they were aiming at? Barack_America Oct 2013 #20

They were firing in the direction of the car as it was speeding away. Cerridwen Oct 2013 #29

According to news I read dixiegrrrrl Oct 2013 #31

Did ya see the picture of the other car? Cerridwen Oct 2013 #37

The totalled police car Abq_Sarah Oct 2013 #57

"was being deployed." Cerridwen Oct 2013 #62

They are large metal poles Abq_Sarah Oct 2013 #66

Got that part. Cerridwen Oct 2013 #70

I have no idea Abq_Sarah Oct 2013 #71

Thanks. I hope we both know more in the weeks to come. Cerridwen Oct 2013 #72

She had passed the barriers before they were deployed. dgibby Oct 2013 #89

they are not instantaneous, probuably she cleared it as it was rising the cop car did not loli phabay Oct 2013 #141

She was armed. William769 Oct 2013 #73

Yeah, the situation was pretty confused dixiegrrrrl Oct 2013 #161

She didn't fire at anyone because she didn't have a weapon in the car. She had sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #86

I share your thoughts on this me b zola Oct 2013 #96

Great response. think Oct 2013 #133

Thank you. Sadly it seems we are in the minority on this. What a statement sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #170

Probably because dgibby Oct 2013 #191

Watch the video on the sidebar. She could have killed someone and ffr Oct 2013 #2

They also are duty bound to protect people that go crazy. It is not their fault they go crazy. Coyotl Oct 2013 #5

Not if the crazy person is a risk to others. JoePhilly Oct 2013 #21

The way she was driving the car was use of a deadly weapon MiniMe Oct 2013 #36

Of course it's not their fault theHandpuppet Oct 2013 #69

The police had no idea about her mental status, dgibby Oct 2013 #92

They could have disable the car with there guns. I personally don't feel protected when it seems diabeticman Oct 2013 #14

How exactly? JoePhilly Oct 2013 #22

You, too, have been watching too much tv. kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #43

This is America where the only solution to any problem is violence. How come sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #87

No, they can't, Why do you think they use the spike strips when they can instead of a high-powered Ikonoklast Oct 2013 #175

Is it a good idea to shoot a car carrying explosives? ecstatic Oct 2013 #119

right right Jeneral2885 Oct 2013 #124

not likely, the sop is to kill the the trigger so to speak ie the driver loli phabay Oct 2013 #144

I agree. But the majority of people these days Live and Learn Oct 2013 #4

So this was "punishment" and not protecting the public and, frankly, the child? pipoman Oct 2013 #47

Shooting into the car was protecting the child? Live and Learn Oct 2013 #83

Letting a crazed person pipoman Oct 2013 #131

What does stopping a highly dangerous person who is already using her car... Walk away Oct 2013 #97

no one is in a position to second guess anything at this point. Richardo Oct 2013 #6

A tire seems like as big a target as a human head or torso. Comrade Grumpy Oct 2013 #79

Go try it, then get back to us... pipoman Oct 2013 #132

Okay, but unlike the cops in DC, I think I'll start with the tire. Comrade Grumpy Oct 2013 #183

After about a dozen trys pipoman Oct 2013 #193

If the tires are run-flat then a shot to them won't stop the car. whopis01 Oct 2013 #206

Thought of this too, of course, elleng Oct 2013 #7

Imagine they did and then she still drives off and kills someone! nt Logical Oct 2013 #8

Oh well that has been the standing order, shoot to kill. Rex Oct 2013 #9

And barely possible with the person moving 30 feet in front of you.. pipoman Oct 2013 #42

Yeah with a pistol more than likely. Rex Oct 2013 #44

Started in front of the WH...ended in front of the Capitol...so...um, no. ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #11

You can't know what someone doesn't have until after the fact. Barack_America Oct 2013 #12

She ran over a cop johnd83 Oct 2013 #15

And if she would have killed someone nobodyspecial Oct 2013 #18

This isn't a televison show where the police/ sheriff / or the good guy shoots out the tires. Agnosticsherbet Oct 2013 #19

Thank you. People watch way too much goddamn TV. nt Nay Oct 2013 #39

+ 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #45

We haven't had Cable in 4 years! This was secret service, capitol police FBI basically the best diabeticman Oct 2013 #64

they probuably did not have stingers to deploy, plus they are difficult to deploy loli phabay Oct 2013 #138

Shoot the gun out of his hand! Skeeter Barnes Oct 2013 #75

They should have shot Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2013 #95

Okay, I give. Why is a human head or torso an easier target than a tire? Comrade Grumpy Oct 2013 #80

Because shooting a trie doesn't stop the deadly weapon the person is driveing Agnosticsherbet Oct 2013 #158

Ha, those kind of cop shows went out with 1-Adam-12. Live and Learn Oct 2013 #84

It was not a deadly weapon. oneshooter Oct 2013 #200

that was my thought also gopiscrap Oct 2013 #23

putting bullets in tires will not stop a car, especially with puncture resistant tires. nt geek tragedy Oct 2013 #24

How could they know she didn't have a gun?? Or a bomb? She was Lil Missy Oct 2013 #25

We don't live in a hollywood fantasy... Humanist_Activist Oct 2013 #26

+ 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #46

I remember, a year or so ago, in my area, a high speed chase... Humanist_Activist Oct 2013 #60

No we don't live in a Hollywood Fantasy. We live in an extremely violent sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #172

I don't see how your post is relevant... Humanist_Activist Oct 2013 #187

Did you know she was mentally ill? oneshooter Oct 2013 #204

"She acted like a terrorist" Holy fuck! think Oct 2013 #207

How sad! sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #210

They had no idea what they were dealing with. Warren Stupidity Oct 2013 #28

She wasn't shot Abq_Sarah Oct 2013 #61

Link please. dgibby Oct 2013 #94

Not a flame but... nadinbrzezinski Oct 2013 #30

Exactly, just like people who say you can shoot people in legs or arms... Humanist_Activist Oct 2013 #38

People watch too much tv. You don't shoot tires or engines NightWatcher Oct 2013 #33

What was she trying to do? Rosa Luxemburg Oct 2013 #34

I had the opportunity to try this Hollywood pipoman Oct 2013 #40

You've watching way too many bad tv shows and movies. kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #41

She was black... HipChick Oct 2013 #48

your experience is enough to make us wonder whether race wasn't a factor here Supersedeas Oct 2013 #126

i think the shooter was blue, not that it matters. loli phabay Oct 2013 #148

This ended this way because she tried to drive her car through the WH gates Marrah_G Oct 2013 #49

From what I've read around the net, not just about this tragedy damnedifIknow Oct 2013 #50

I think this is not instinct, but training. robinlynne Oct 2013 #53

Shooting her car might have killed several people, inlcuyidng the baby. I see your point, robinlynne Oct 2013 #51

They could have tased her xfundy Oct 2013 #52

Trank darts are very iffy TheMightyFavog Oct 2013 #63

Tranquilizing darts are lethal in a lot of cases, and unreliable in others... Humanist_Activist Oct 2013 #68

Did you see the video? The windows were up (and tinted), dgibby Oct 2013 #93

Just want to point out that the car ecstatic Oct 2013 #121

can't say that with surety handmade34 Oct 2013 #208

You knew when it was happening that she didn't have a gun? Why didn't you tell the police? brooklynite Oct 2013 #55

Did you see the pictures of the front end of her car? Abq_Sarah Oct 2013 #65

Yes it was a tragedy. But do you know what the accuracy rate is for local police? DebJ Oct 2013 #58

Where's the link to the story you're talking about? Th1onein Oct 2013 #59

This is a good read by the DOJ in PDF format on conerns over the use of deadly force damnedifIknow Oct 2013 #67

She wasn't shot when they had her surrounded. She should have gotten out and given up DevonRex Oct 2013 #74

+1000 n/t FSogol Oct 2013 #98

Amen--great post. nt raccoon Oct 2013 #117

Exactly. mnhtnbb Oct 2013 #99

That's it exactly. HappyMe Oct 2013 #102

Since when is fleeing from police a death sentence? damnedifIknow Oct 2013 #108

Since it happened in front of the WH and the Capitol... since they ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #109

Oh I see damnedifIknow Oct 2013 #111

Act like that in the nation's Capitol, in front of the residence of a man ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #112

The answer to that was in my post above. DevonRex Oct 2013 #186

Just a nit pick, but ..... oldhippie Oct 2013 #146

It was an unknown, and if the car was wired to explode what would have been the results if they did lostincalifornia Oct 2013 #203

A car is a weapon. krispos42 Oct 2013 #76

The lesson to be learned here is that it was too late to help her. Sivafae Oct 2013 #77

+ infinity. That is the answer. nt stevenleser Oct 2013 #115

We had a case such as this in our city.... with the same result. I'm sorry she was killed but for NotThisTime Oct 2013 #78

Perhaps they lacked your super powers.... Riftaxe Oct 2013 #82

I'm as sensitive to the notion, and reality, of excessive force by police as anybody is nomorenomore08 Oct 2013 #85

You do realize the police had no way of knowing if she had a gun or a bomb in the car, right? n/t dgibby Oct 2013 #90

you have only Niceguy1 Oct 2013 #91

Because of the shut down, I heard the cops were not on the payroll. B Calm Oct 2013 #100

Yes it is. HappyMe Oct 2013 #118

She shouldn't have been shooting at the police and giving chase. ileus Oct 2013 #101

She wasn't shooting as she had no gun maddezmom Oct 2013 #104

The car FlaGranny Oct 2013 #103

not flamed Dorian Gray Oct 2013 #105

I agree. you pose the exact question I've been asking myself all morning. nt ellenrr Oct 2013 #106

You're thinking of Superman and Batman, not cops. randome Oct 2013 #107

For the police cruiser to be as mangled as it is, the car didn't seem that damaged LaydeeBug Oct 2013 #110

The police cruiser was not hit by her car. It hit a barrier after losing control. ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #113

Oh, I see. I didn't know that, so thank you LaydeeBug Oct 2013 #114

wow Jeneral2885 Oct 2013 #125

Wha--? ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #128

did they know if she had a bomb in the car and was gonna ram a building of senators? did they know seabeyond Oct 2013 #116

would they know so much? Jeneral2885 Oct 2013 #127

ya. what does that have to do with it. she tried going into the white house. seabeyond Oct 2013 #130

I wish it had ended better too. HappyMe Oct 2013 #135

that is how i see it. as sad as it is. as much as i would like it to be different. nt seabeyond Oct 2013 #137

No, she didn't *have* to die. nt RedCappedBandit Oct 2013 #120

She injured a cop. That sends them into a tizzy. apnu Oct 2013 #122

So you care for the child? Jeneral2885 Oct 2013 #123

Easier said than done. GoCubsGo Oct 2013 #129

i think that stat is low, to qualify you have to get eighty percent and above loli phabay Oct 2013 #153

Regardless... GoCubsGo Oct 2013 #159

hell i am an expert shot with all my weapons and i would be lucky with a whole loli phabay Oct 2013 #160

Exactly. n/t GoCubsGo Oct 2013 #163

This was a no win situation for the police Democat Oct 2013 #134

LOL cbdo2007 Oct 2013 #136

problem with shooting tires is that a lot of the time the round bouces off loli phabay Oct 2013 #139

That's what I'm thinking. Too much action movie comparisons going on here. randome Oct 2013 #151

yup, from experience tires are not something you want to shoot at with a handgun loli phabay Oct 2013 #155

a person fires shots into a crowd... ProdigalJunkMail Oct 2013 #140

I'm going to answer your querstion honestly. Savannahmann Oct 2013 #143

'Shoot first'? Did you see the video? randome Oct 2013 #149

Yes I did. Savannahmann Oct 2013 #162

My point was that they clearly did not 'shoot first' the first time they had her surrounded. randome Oct 2013 #164

Denigrating? Savannahmann Oct 2013 #167

Excellent post nt JonLP24 Oct 2013 #154

Good points.nt ecstatic Oct 2013 #166

+1 nt Live and Learn Oct 2013 #181

I thought you said below that the cops were making a risky move by shooting her onenote Oct 2013 #196

You need to read the entire respone Savannahmann Oct 2013 #211

So I'm, wondering... how precisely would you have accomplished the same outcome LanternWaste Oct 2013 #147

Interesting demand. Zero risk. Savannahmann Oct 2013 #182

we are left only with our powers of prophecy. LanternWaste Oct 2013 #184

They shoulda just used the Force! Seeking Serenity Oct 2013 #150

I'm fine with the way the police handled the situation. aikoaiko Oct 2013 #156

OMGZZZ In front of a ChilD!!!!11! MNBrewer Oct 2013 #168

"Shoot out the tires" is about as realistic as "Set Phasers to Stun". Nye Bevan Oct 2013 #169

I agree up to the point where ann--- Oct 2013 #178

She had already hit someone with her car and backed into a police car then narrowly missed hitting appleannie1 Oct 2013 #179

Why didn't the CIA hack into the car and turn off the engine? sagat Oct 2013 #185

The thing is a spike strip solves the problem damnedifIknow Oct 2013 #197

Sorry Emoprogs - in case you didn't know underthematrix Oct 2013 #202

after reading a number of reports handmade34 Oct 2013 #209