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hfojvt

(37,573 posts)

179. What actually happened was that New Hampshire went for Bush

Sat Mar 3, 2012, 12:30 PM

Mar 2012

that actually happened, and it put Bush in the White House.

What also actually happened was that New Mexico, Iowa, Wisconsin and Oregon ALMOST went for Bush. Nader did everything he could to make that happen too. I did what I could to help Iowa go for Gore, and I prevailed over Nader, but Nader was definitely on the other side.

Yours is not a "what if"? Really?

"IF scotus ..." is no less of a what if than "IF Nader ..." I can give a big Fuck you to both Scotus AND Nader AND Chris Matthews AND other members of the media who took part in the "war on Gore". Because they all played key roles in putting Bush in the White House. None of them should be given a pass because of the others, because they all had key roles.

What is so anti-democratic about facing electoral reality? That in an election 100 + 4 is less than 101.

That is simply awful reality, except to those who are vested in denial for some mysterious reason.

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Nader blabbering on MSNBC. Still not apologizing for Bush. [View all] onehandle Feb 2012 OP

Nader is not to blame corkhead Feb 2012 #1

Well I can say this with pretty good certainty. trumad Feb 2012 #2

And I can say with certainty if the Dems didn't roll over and joeybee12 Feb 2012 #4

No mention of the 90,000 votes trumad Feb 2012 #26

Yeah, that always slips their minds. Anyone who refuses to admit that Nader, at a bare minimum ... 11 Bravo Feb 2012 #35

This is very simple trumad Feb 2012 #40

Correct! Period. Full stop. End of fucking discussion. 11 Bravo Feb 2012 #45

Exactly. This is not exactly nebulous. TheWraith Feb 2012 #139

That's hindsight. randome Feb 2012 #46

+1 Javaman Feb 2012 #51

that is badly false dsc Feb 2012 #114

if he ran a good campaign there would never be an issue as to why it was so close... Javaman Feb 2012 #132

neither did Bush 1 dsc Feb 2012 #135

you know what? Javaman Mar 2012 #146

well then why did you post in it dsc Mar 2012 #150

because yesterday, I stupidly believed it still mattered. Javaman Mar 2012 #151

Funny, that's not what Gore told me... SomethingFishy Mar 2012 #156

I would imagine that he was still considering a run for office at that time dsc Mar 2012 #157

Even more simple. If Nader had not run, the SCOTUS would have appointed Bush anyway WhaTHellsgoingonhere Feb 2012 #124

This makes several assumptions quakerboy Mar 2012 #163

.. and you can't even spell "Nader"... dionysus Mar 2012 #142

it is a mistake to focus on Florida hfojvt Feb 2012 #10

Nader apologists trumad Feb 2012 #28

I'll go there. Javaman Feb 2012 #53

the trouble is hfojvt Feb 2012 #65

If I had a time machine I would have admittedn hitler to art school. Javaman Feb 2012 #80

that take away Nader, and Gore wins, in spite of his supposedly "bad" campaign hfojvt Feb 2012 #85

face the reality: the reason gore "lost' had nothing to do with nader noiretextatique Feb 2012 #98

again, that is all Florida hfojvt Feb 2012 #112

face the reality: the reason gore "lost' had nothing to do with nader noiretextatique Mar 2012 #160

no matter how many times you repeat a falsehood does not make it true hfojvt Mar 2012 #171

not false, just the stark, awful truth of what actually happened noiretextatique Mar 2012 #174

What actually happened was that New Hampshire went for Bush hfojvt Mar 2012 #179

florida decided the election: face the reality noiretextatique Mar 2012 #184

Not exactly. girl gone mad Feb 2012 #108

well logic would dictate hfojvt Feb 2012 #113

They didn't vote for Bush, girl gone mad Feb 2012 #137

it amounted to the same thing hfojvt Mar 2012 #152

I'm not seeing the certainty iverglas Feb 2012 #20

"Those voters apparently did not want to vote for Gore". trumad Feb 2012 #29

like I said iverglas Feb 2012 #44

Interesting. I had no idea that any of those MineralMan Feb 2012 #83

just for you iverglas Feb 2012 #92

I'm saying that unless Obama filled out the questionaire, MineralMan Feb 2012 #103

well, you know better iverglas Feb 2012 #109

This man was a state senator, a US Senator, and the majority of a term as President TheKentuckian Mar 2012 #165

there's another layer to that as well hfojvt Feb 2012 #81

If Gore lost Florida by 500 votes, then why aren't you also blaming and demanding apologies from cherokeeprogressive Feb 2012 #140

Holy shit! Is it REALLY your contention that of the 90,000 Florida votes cast for Nader ... 11 Bravo Feb 2012 #39

if it was really your intention iverglas Feb 2012 #54

so 538 vote for Gore... Javaman Feb 2012 #82

I haven't heard anyone say he had no right to run. I HAVE heard numerous of his defenders deny ... 11 Bravo Feb 2012 #99

wow. Javaman Feb 2012 #133

It wouldn't have mattered if Gore had had 539 additional votes... JackRiddler Mar 2012 #180

+1... Javaman Feb 2012 #55

It's just basic logic that most, not all of the votes would've went to Gore. Uncle Joe Feb 2012 #68

neither you nor I can perdict how those people would have voted... Javaman Feb 2012 #79

What they saw in Nader was far closer to Gore than Bush. Uncle Joe Feb 2012 #86

Frankly, I don't care anymore Javaman Mar 2012 #147

Never give up caring, Javaman Uncle Joe Mar 2012 #154

Actually, we CAN predict it, with at least some confidence. Jim Lane Mar 2012 #143

and what does that solve? Javaman Mar 2012 #148

Rehashing what can't be changed: useless. Not making the same mistake again: priceless. Jim Lane Mar 2012 #153

I guess it sucks that people run for office- LanternWaste Feb 2012 #34

Well Nader saying it's got to get worse before it gets better. trumad Feb 2012 #41

And 9/11 might have been prevented, because Gore was in the habit of listening to Richard Clarke, emulatorloo Feb 2012 #117

if Gore ran a better campaign he could have earned some of those votes lame54 Feb 2012 #125

What you said is true, but with the same logic you can also say that if Boosh had not run, corkhead Feb 2012 #128

Nader ran a campaign saying Gore = Bush. That was a lie. Nader was respected by a lot of people. libinnyandia Feb 2012 #3

Huh? randome Feb 2012 #5

When you run as a progressive candidate you have a higher standard than a DUer. libinnyandia Feb 2012 #22

So because this is a "two party system" you have the right to tell people who to vote for? A Simple Game Feb 2012 #119

Did you read my post? Where did I "tell people who to vote for?" corkhead Feb 2012 #127

I'm glad you recognize how much Anderson hurt Carter. aaaaaa5a Feb 2012 #136

Why should Nader apologize? Upton Feb 2012 #6

Nader. Vote fraud. Supreme Court. randome Feb 2012 #8

& disenfranchising voters was a civil rights issue G_j Feb 2012 #13

Had he not distanced himself from Clinton and let Clinton campaign joeybee12 Feb 2012 #17

Gore didn't distance himself from Clinton, it was the other way around. Uncle Joe Feb 2012 #48

Corporate slander will always be a factor. randome Feb 2012 #70

When Gore was aggressive, they as an institution said he was ranting, when he found common ground, Uncle Joe Feb 2012 #78

We can't blame the media for all our setbacks. randome Feb 2012 #84

We can blame the corporate media when they're at fault and they were certainly at fault. Uncle Joe Feb 2012 #93

oh, is that all? hfojvt Feb 2012 #11

Yeah, that's all.. Upton Feb 2012 #15

Well maybe if Gore had gotten help from 100,000 Perot voters hfojvt Feb 2012 #43

So what? randome Feb 2012 #47

Where are those goalposts? hfojvt Feb 2012 #61

Held accountable for running for President? randome Feb 2012 #75

held accountable for helping Bush into the White House hfojvt Feb 2012 #87

I agree with that. randome Feb 2012 #105

Why ? surfdog Feb 2012 #25

what part of the word Democracy don't you get? G_j Feb 2012 #30

Of course he's a delusional idiot. randome Feb 2012 #37

Why do people vote for Republicans? Rex Feb 2012 #64

You got me. randome Feb 2012 #73

Oh you got me onboard 100% for that!!! Rex Feb 2012 #116

Your slam at Kucinich is 100% wrong. Kucinich did what Nader should've done: run in the PRIMARY. Jim Lane Mar 2012 #144

Because he lied, and repeatedly lied. grantcart Feb 2012 #88

Let me know when the supreme court apologizes for Bush Autumn Feb 2012 #7

SCOTUS did not decide New Hampshire - Nader did. hfojvt Feb 2012 #16

+10,000 Rex Feb 2012 #67

It was Gore's job to appeal to the left in Florida. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2012 #9

Yeah, EC Feb 2012 #12

I suspected that was the case with Americans Elect. AtomicKitten Feb 2012 #63

This thread is pathetic. white_wolf Feb 2012 #14

this is what Democracy looks like G_j Feb 2012 #23

oh good grief. What ever happened to logic? hfojvt Feb 2012 #27

A vote for Gore was a vote for Bush. ZombieHorde Feb 2012 #33

yeah, sure, that makes perfect sense hfojvt Feb 2012 #57

Because Nader wasn't accountable. ZombieHorde Feb 2012 #60

who said anything about entitled? hfojvt Feb 2012 #76

Your math is a bit flawed. ZombieHorde Feb 2012 #91

uhm, no hfojvt Feb 2012 #100

OK, add NH. ZombieHorde Mar 2012 #162

sure, I am guessing hfojvt Mar 2012 #170

This is not a matter of innocence or guilt. ZombieHorde Mar 2012 #173

i find it odd that some cling to speculation noiretextatique Mar 2012 #172

yes, and should they be branded too? G_j Feb 2012 #96

Apparently the Nader voters didn't think Gore earned their vote. white_wolf Feb 2012 #36

apparently Nader voters didn't care if Bush became President hfojvt Feb 2012 #52

Apparently Nader voters did not think about the consequences emulatorloo Feb 2012 #118

For the 10th time Democrats are not entitled to any votes. white_wolf Feb 2012 #122

Right, because Republicans are entitled to win. emulatorloo Mar 2012 #168

At least they thought about the consequences in 2004. Jim Lane Mar 2012 #145

Very true. emulatorloo Mar 2012 #169

"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient..." woo me with science Feb 2012 #102

I always thought the earning votes theme did not make sense treestar Feb 2012 #123

he probably thinks this thread is about him, eh? hfojvt Feb 2012 #18

Dear Ralph Nader: Thanks for the seatbelts. Chorophyll Feb 2012 #19

So which R Superpac will be funding his candidacy? Skidmore Feb 2012 #21

So... Fix The Stupid Feb 2012 #24

I wouldn't vote for Nader if he were the only candidate for the office. Period. Skidmore Feb 2012 #38

Don't disagree... Fix The Stupid Feb 2012 #89

I think Gore should apologize for Bush. ZombieHorde Feb 2012 #31

No doubt, one of the repubs' SuperPacs will be 'supporting' him.... Spazito Feb 2012 #32

I guess he should if he were the one behind nadinbrzezinski Feb 2012 #42

Nadin, you're doing it again. Pointing out facts. white_wolf Feb 2012 #49

Just imagine, if Nader had appeared with Gore on a stage a few days before election day 2000, Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #50

That would have put Gore over the top, apparently Nader thought enough of Gore in 2006 Uncle Joe Feb 2012 #56

What a beautiful dream. It could have happened that way if Nader had chosen that route. DevonRex Feb 2012 #58

Yep. And at the time, 9/11 seemed like an isolated event from Nader... onehandle Feb 2012 #62

Just imagine, if the election had been stolen on Bush's behalf regardless, as had been intended... JackRiddler Feb 2012 #72

I'm not sure I follow. Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #77

We have no idea what the vote totals would have been without Nader... JackRiddler Mar 2012 #158

+10000000 noiretextatique Mar 2012 #175

Yeah, it's time he apologized for the Jeb Bush / Katharine Harris election fraud... JackRiddler Feb 2012 #59

"those who actually committed the coup and went on to perpetrate war crimes G_j Feb 2012 #69

It is strange how some ignore the 800 pound gorilla Rex Feb 2012 #71

nader was the fly on the elephant's ass noiretextatique Feb 2012 #94

Well said! randome Feb 2012 #106

it is truth noiretextatique Mar 2012 #176

THANK YOU! (nt) fascisthunter Feb 2012 #131

Nader didn't bring us Bush> Returning Survivor Feb 2012 #66

the gnews media wanted gore to lose. they used nader pansypoo53219 Feb 2012 #74

+ Infinity with a cherry on top. Uncle Joe Feb 2012 #97

And the Jewish areas that voted for Pat Buchanan? Paulie Feb 2012 #90

Yeah ... GeorgeGist Feb 2012 #95

100 responses, Le Taz Hot Feb 2012 #101

Nader's on the SCOTUS now? Myrina Feb 2012 #104

Remind me ikri Feb 2012 #107

yes: some democrats are against democracy noiretextatique Feb 2012 #110

I miss unrec. --nt CrispyQ Feb 2012 #111

Who is funding this little attempt to split the left? aquart Feb 2012 #115

Why should he apologize? The GOP bankrolled him in 2004, for fuck's sake. Warren DeMontague Feb 2012 #120

And they will be bankrolling Buddy Roehmer this time . nt nanabugg Mar 2012 #183

Gore fucked the whole thing up. eom rudycantfail Feb 2012 #121

This message was self-deleted by its author politicasista Feb 2012 #126

If Nader wants to be honest DonCoquixote Feb 2012 #129

lol... did the Supreme Court Select Bush or not? fascisthunter Feb 2012 #130

yes...a partisan scotus crowned shrub noiretextatique Mar 2012 #177

"dems caved 'for the good of the country" fascisthunter Mar 2012 #178

so true noiretextatique Mar 2012 #181

Wow, this thread is filled with whatchamacallit Feb 2012 #134

Your claim is false, no one on this thread, said Nader didn't have a right to run. Uncle Joe Feb 2012 #141

I'm responding to the Nader hate whatchamacallit Mar 2012 #159

I believe the vast majority of these posters don't hate Nader, they hate what he did. Uncle Joe Mar 2012 #161

The only person that has the memory of Ralph Nader is........ bluestate10 Feb 2012 #138

It's ALL Nader's fault _ed_ Mar 2012 #149

Uh, you know the drill libodem Mar 2012 #155

Why should he apologize...it was not his fault...but go ahead and hate if it makes you feel better AnOhioan Mar 2012 #164

Has Gore apologized for picking Joe Lieberman yet or Bonobo Mar 2012 #166

Nor should he MNBrewer Mar 2012 #167

DLC is to blame, not Nader mdmc Mar 2012 #182