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In reply to the discussion: Question for those callling the shutdown an act of sedition [View all]ProSense
(116,464 posts)59. Actually, they're not
"As contemptable as Republicans are, they are using the rules to hold the government hostage."
...using the rules. They're abusing their power. The "power of the purse" wasn't intended as a tool for Republican terrorists to hold the Government hostage because they lost an election, hate a law or can't get what they want.
They, in a word, hold the purse that powerful instrument by which we behold, in the history of the British Constitution, an infant and humble representation of the people gradually enlarging the sphere of its activity and importance, and finally reducing, as far as it seems to have wished, all the overgrown prerogatives of the other branches of the government. This power over the purse may, in fact, be regarded as the most complete and effectual weapon with which any constitution can arm the immediate representatives of the people, for obtaining a redress of every grievance, and for carrying into effect every just and salutary measure. But will not the House of Representatives be as much interested as the Senate in maintaining the government in its proper functions, and will they not therefore be unwilling to stake its existence or its reputation on the pliancy of the Senate? Or, if such a trial of firmness between the two branches were hazarded, would not the one be as likely first to yield as the other? These questions will create no difficulty with those who reflect that in all cases the smaller the number, and the more permanent and conspicuous the station, of men in power, the stronger must be the interest which they will individually feel in whatever concerns the government. Those who represent the dignity of their country in the eyes of other nations, will be particularly sensible to every prospect of public danger, or of dishonorable stagnation in public affairs.
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/histdox/fed_58.html
What we're seeing is Republican belligerence. They're holding the country hostage, people are suffering, losing pay and their goal is to deny tens of millions of Americans health care.
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Actually, conspiring to have the country go into default by not allowing a vote might be a violation
lostincalifornia
Oct 2013
#3
As contemptable as Republicans are, they are using the rules to hold the government hostage.
randome
Oct 2013
#5
Actually allowing the country to default is a violation of the 14th amendment, and I will guarantee
lostincalifornia
Oct 2013
#8
actually if you don't raise the debt limit for money spent, it means you are in default on your debt
lostincalifornia
Oct 2013
#55
The money is already spent. Raising the debt limit is a formality, but a necessary one
lostincalifornia
Oct 2013
#64
The shutdown is the budget, not the debt ceiling. It is a different issue
lostincalifornia
Oct 2013
#68
What? Where do you guys get this stuff? The debt is the cumulative deficits of all budgets.
Nuclear Unicorn
Oct 2013
#69
The offical postion of the Exectuive Branch (Obama) is that they do not authority under the 14th
Agnosticsherbet
Oct 2013
#16
Where in the world did you come up with the idea I think the House should get its way?
onenote
Oct 2013
#122
You keep saying that the Senate passed a bill that had been passed by the House. That's not true.
onenote
Oct 2013
#125
"You are correct that when the two houses pass different versions of the same bill..."
ProSense
Oct 2013
#136
When you advocate having the constitutional process subverted by force of arms
Nuclear Unicorn
Oct 2013
#10
I'm sorry, but shutting down the government because they don't like Obamacare
Downtown Hound
Oct 2013
#25
So accept votes for stop-gap bills. VIOLA! You aren't holding out for politics, are you?
Nuclear Unicorn
Oct 2013
#30
No, you only care about now because you practice totalitarian political thuggery.
Nuclear Unicorn
Oct 2013
#100
Oh and, my idea may not sound progressive (not that I really give a shit)
Downtown Hound
Oct 2013
#77
I'm not the one ruining the United States of America so people can't get
Downtown Hound
Oct 2013
#91
You want to destroy everything about America: free speech, right to dissent, political process
Nuclear Unicorn
Oct 2013
#102
It's not the first time. In fact, I've always thought we agreed far more than we disagreed.
onenote
Oct 2013
#62
You ask what the penalty should be, censure for refusing to allow the house to vote. /nt
lostincalifornia
Oct 2013
#9
Even if they fold and raise that debt limit, the government will remain shut down.
Agnosticsherbet
Oct 2013
#20