General Discussion

avebury

(11,204 posts)

228. If a person is on public assistance

Thu Oct 10, 2013, 11:59 AM

Oct 2013

(and it may be for a real need due to job loss) would you approve it if the person:
1. Bought a new car?
2. Bought season tickets to a local sports team?
3. Went on a shopping spree at the local mall?
4. Took a vacation to Las Vegas?

Most people would agree that the above listed items could be perceived to be irresponsible if a person is on public assistance (full or partial). So why does it become acceptable for a person or a couple to make a conscious decision to have a baby when the person or couple is not able to take care of herself or themself? If a person or couple is not (are not) able to take care of herself (themselves), one could make an arguement that to bring another life into the world is a selfish act.

A woman or a couple have every right to decide how many children they want to have. When the decision impacts society then society has a right to point out the parent(s) irresponsibility. Actions always come with consequences.

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I'm Sick of the Michelle Duggar Posts Trashing a Woman for the Children she Produces! [View all] KoKo Oct 2013 OP

IMHO, I don't care about the number of kids, its the commercialization and tv show producing benld74 Oct 2013 #1

I like that you are suggesting we shouldn't judge her family for its size, ZombieHorde Oct 2013 #2

I think people are pissed she exploit$ the kid$ leftstreet Oct 2013 #3

My wife and I got trashed for not wanting to have any children fitman Oct 2013 #4

But they are hurting people, future generations, because the planet cannot sustain this cui bono Oct 2013 #37

bingo - we have some responsibility to the future rurallib Oct 2013 #155

That's how I look at it. LuvNewcastle Oct 2013 #173

I don't buy the "future generations" critique, though. Orrex Oct 2013 #191

Why not? You know we can't all breed like that. LuvNewcastle Oct 2013 #232

It is, to use a phrase from Carl Sagan, a brick-in-the-toilet mode of thinking. Orrex Oct 2013 #233

They promote it as a way of life though...and on television. nt Sivafae Oct 2013 #250

I just don't get your reasoning here. LuvNewcastle Oct 2013 #291

What is the acceptable number of offspring? And what about people who have more? Orrex Oct 2013 #293

Bingo! avebury Oct 2013 #223

The planet can't sustain 20 people? What the fuck? that is closeupready Oct 2013 #254

Yeah, I don't think people like extremes. Left2Tackle Oct 2013 #181

She's a crazy cult member XemaSab Oct 2013 #5

Yep. And she, with her crazy husband, are creating more like just like them. progressoid Oct 2013 #277

What bugs me about her family structure is that none of those children dflprincess Oct 2013 #6

Until I see kids from that family get on CNN or MSNBC and Say they were ABUSED KoKo Oct 2013 #13

Having more children than you can care for is abuse dflprincess Oct 2013 #20

If a couple adopted 19 kids over 25 years, would you say they are abusive? uppityperson Oct 2013 #23

I would seriously question any adoption agency dflprincess Oct 2013 #31

Are they all living in one home? Even the married one? Even the ones in their 20's? uppityperson Oct 2013 #46

Their eldest is now working in DC for the Family Research Council, an anti gay Bluenorthwest Oct 2013 #166

What a fine family. ewwwwww, May he and his siblings learn more about the real world uppityperson Oct 2013 #248

THIS is what I object to... Rainngirl Oct 2013 #258

Not Abusive RobinA Oct 2013 #158

bingo. thanxs eom catrose Oct 2013 #230

All the girls seem to be happy fitman Oct 2013 #174

Have you ever seen a family of even four where someone isn't unhappy at least part of the time? hamsterjill Oct 2013 #256

Agree 100% fitman Oct 2013 #257

Interesting article by a woman who grew up in a similar family dflprincess Oct 2013 #270

I think the only 'abuse' is the screwed up belief system they force on their kids. SammyWinstonJack Oct 2013 #211

that is bound to happen treestar Oct 2013 #216

LOL, really, this is what you choose to be outraged about? n-t Logical Oct 2013 #7

The problem people have is that they're religious. Dreamer Tatum Oct 2013 #8

Well that's disgusting for Dems to deny folks Relgious Opinion... KoKo Oct 2013 #17

No one is denying them anything, but no one has to refrain from criticism of Bluenorthwest Oct 2013 #167

So why is it okay to judge people politically but not religiously? Arugula Latte Oct 2013 #199

We absolutely get to judge. Daemonaquila Oct 2013 #285

Succinct, to the point, and Seeking Serenity Oct 2013 #33

B-I-N-G-O. Common Sense Party Oct 2013 #118

Who is saying they don't have the right to live like that? Arugula Latte Oct 2013 #206

I think we DO understand the difference, actually. I realize that you don't take action Common Sense Party Oct 2013 #217

That second comment certainly isn't pro-choice. Mariana Oct 2013 #246

Very wrong. jeff47 Oct 2013 #242

Oh horseshit nt Dreamer Tatum Oct 2013 #245

My, what a fact-full response. jeff47 Oct 2013 #247

He's right. bunnies Oct 2013 #261

Holy fuck! I googled it. bunnies Oct 2013 #260

I don't trash her, but I think any woman is crazy RebelOne Oct 2013 #9

I don't like their whole spiel. Responsible people who care about the earth and it's... BlueJazz Oct 2013 #10

Thank you. Overpopulation is a real problem. OnionPatch Oct 2013 #224

On premise I agree with you but with the population explosion and resultant Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #11

Her childen could die in a Flood, Tornado...Disaster. Why are our KoKo Oct 2013 #18

The Duggers can choose whatever they want, I'm have no right to deny them that, but Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #26

U.S. population growth this decade Union Scribe Oct 2013 #82

As the last paragraph in my first post on this thread points out Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #99

And yet people choose not to Union Scribe Oct 2013 #104

The stats that I just posted should show you that it is an issue. Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #113

Wow. No, that post makes no sense what so ever. cui bono Oct 2013 #41

"Preferably only 2 at the most" Llewlladdwr Oct 2013 #49

I didn't say anything about a woman's right to choose. cui bono Oct 2013 #54

Interesting. Llewlladdwr Oct 2013 #58

Nope. That's not right at all. You brought up the word monster. cui bono Oct 2013 #69

I felt monster was appropriate... Llewlladdwr Oct 2013 #81

We are not nearing a shortage of people. cui bono Oct 2013 #123

But that rate of growth is slowing. Llewlladdwr Oct 2013 #132

Well I'm glad we can agree that it would be good to not continue the population growth. cui bono Oct 2013 #141

Problem is, we have people in our government... awoke_in_2003 Oct 2013 #271

Did you read Michelle's lectures on the web after her own miscarriage polly7 Oct 2013 #79

To be fair, she seems to be being demonized for her choices as well. Llewlladdwr Oct 2013 #96

People have a right to criticize anything they think is wrong. polly7 Oct 2013 #202

Really? I never heard about that. cui bono Oct 2013 #143

you really love that show.. don't you? nt dionysus Oct 2013 #48

My only beef with women (or couples) who avebury Oct 2013 #12

I understand what you say...but the Duggars don't seem to NOT be able KoKo Oct 2013 #21

Are you sure you want to start down that path? Llewlladdwr Oct 2013 #29

I am not interested in defunding all aid to families avebury Oct 2013 #40

So you'd cut off aid to a single mother with say, five children? Llewlladdwr Oct 2013 #52

Once a woman (or couple) are forced to sign up for avebury Oct 2013 #70

So reproductive rights should only belong to the wealthy? Llewlladdwr Oct 2013 #91

So do you believe that people should be able to avebury Oct 2013 #146

That was Newt Gingrich's position, btw (nt) Recursion Oct 2013 #125

So in other words, if a kid is born to irresponsible parents, TOUGH LUCK! nt alp227 Oct 2013 #274

No. If a parent is (or parents are) unable to properly avebury Oct 2013 #275

I get your idea, but would you apply that to mothers on pub asst when a kid is born? alp227 Oct 2013 #276

As far as I am concerned, the welfare of the avebury Oct 2013 #279

Wow, the welfare mother bit. Union Scribe Oct 2013 #105

No kidding. It's literally what Newt was saying 20 years ago Recursion Oct 2013 #126

If a person is on public assistance avebury Oct 2013 #228

I don't care about the monetary part treestar Oct 2013 #218

My beef, if you will, is the quiverful movement that the program promotes nadinbrzezinski Oct 2013 #14

Look...Maybe some of us made choices for 1 child for Us or No Kids. KoKo Oct 2013 #34

There's nothing wrong with pointing out what these people really stand for kcr Oct 2013 #43

You should read into the Quiverful movement nadinbrzezinski Oct 2013 #47

Exactly, Nadin. kcr Oct 2013 #53

All it takes is one, or two episodes nadinbrzezinski Oct 2013 #59

Yes. Exactly. kcr Oct 2013 #62

Very, very few evangelicals pay attention to the Quiverful movement. GreenStormCloud Oct 2013 #203

Criticizing her choices is not the same Mariana Oct 2013 #15

But, why is this Woman and her Family singled Out? If one doesn't KoKo Oct 2013 #42

There's no abuse? XemaSab Oct 2013 #45

You are aware of their reality TV show, correct? Beaverhausen Oct 2013 #50

I don't watch MSM..so not aware of a Duggar Reality Show...never heard KoKo Oct 2013 #64

Here, from The Learning Channel nadinbrzezinski Oct 2013 #71

Oldest now works for Family Research Council Bluenorthwest Oct 2013 #170

99.99998% of people fitman Oct 2013 #179

I would rather see a reality show about a family of adopted kids Beaverhausen Oct 2013 #75

you had no idea? she treats her daughters like servants, and the boys like princes.... bettyellen Oct 2013 #131

Yes, the daughters take care of the younger children and babies. They change the diapers, etc. anneboleyn Oct 2013 #267

I only watched one show and bits and pieces of others while switching through the channels, polly7 Oct 2013 #268

So it is ok to attack Cyrus for her art and sexuality as an adult woman but not Bluenorthwest Oct 2013 #169

The Discovery Network helped build their 7,000 sq. ft. house. City Lights Oct 2013 #189

You honestly did not know they have a reality tv series? "19 kids and counting" etc.?! anneboleyn Oct 2013 #266

Because this woman and her family Mariana Oct 2013 #63

Gee do you think putting yourself on a TV series about you might single you out? Bluenorthwest Oct 2013 #165

They are singled out because they have a teevee show. City Lights Oct 2013 #186

It's us usual treestar Oct 2013 #219

Because she chooses to publicize her lifestyle on national TV tabbycat31 Oct 2013 #236

Criticizing the decision is not necessarily criticizing the right to make said decision. Gravitycollapse Oct 2013 #16

+1 Silent3 Oct 2013 #51

It's always disappointing, especially here on DU... Llewlladdwr Oct 2013 #19

This presumes that a Quiverfull wife has a choice. longship Oct 2013 #102

All of her choices? Every single thing she chooses to do? TreasonousBastard Oct 2013 #135

No, of course not. Llewlladdwr Oct 2013 #136

Ah, just her reproductive choices... TreasonousBastard Oct 2013 #144

Sure why not, I mean, there's plenty of resources to go around, right? Lex Oct 2013 #22

I don't have to endorse others' choices jberryhill Oct 2013 #24

Really. What is so hard about that? kcr Oct 2013 #30

+1 JNelson6563 Oct 2013 #32

Actually, in this case you kinda do. Llewlladdwr Oct 2013 #39

Bullshit jberryhill Oct 2013 #60

You're certainly free to believe whatever you want jberryhill. Llewlladdwr Oct 2013 #67

Do you like White Power racist literature? jberryhill Oct 2013 #77

It's your choice! joshcryer Oct 2013 #92

We do an ultrasound each time jberryhill Oct 2013 #94

One of these things is not like the others... Llewlladdwr Oct 2013 #95

"Apparently you disagree." jberryhill Oct 2013 #101

Wow. Llewlladdwr Oct 2013 #110

"I cut myself because I like getting stitches" jberryhill Oct 2013 #115

Would you recommend the same... Llewlladdwr Oct 2013 #117

Or, say, Michael Jackson? jberryhill Oct 2013 #121

Oh geez. Llewlladdwr Oct 2013 #127

Anyone who would get pregnant for the sole purpose of getting an abortion... bunnies Oct 2013 #264

Absolutely Beringia Oct 2013 #286

Actually, I do stay silent when someone simply condemns a woman for abortion. sir pball Oct 2013 #237

Their choice. They don't deserve any special coverage though. nt uppityperson Oct 2013 #25

Yeah,That 20th kid will ensure a tv series renewal so free market and all that TeamPooka Oct 2013 #27

Thanks, I agree. elleng Oct 2013 #28

The fact of the matter is this is not simply a case of a woman's choice. cui bono Oct 2013 #35

Well said. nt. polly7 Oct 2013 #38

May I add an Amen to that! theHandpuppet Oct 2013 #65

well put. Matariki Oct 2013 #72

+1000 nt Duppers Oct 2013 #172

Then you need to learn more about Quiverfull. longship Oct 2013 #36

I don't care how many kids they have, it's none of my business. I just would like the same Raine Oct 2013 #44

I would like to think it is sarcasm because they are so vocally anti-choice... ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #55

The disdain and vitriol by some is revealing Puzzledtraveller Oct 2013 #292

boring NoOneMan Oct 2013 #56

My problem is that the children are raising their siblings. bravenak Oct 2013 #57

Because this: Matariki Oct 2013 #61

Do you hear yourself in what you say? Are YOU the DECIDER? KoKo Oct 2013 #76

No, that person is not making decisions for anyone else jberryhill Oct 2013 #83

Ah, if only I WAS the DECIDER! Mr. & Mrs. Duggar would have been forcibly sterilized ages ago Matariki Oct 2013 #85

You are trying to compare airplanes to oranges Matariki Oct 2013 #66

Exactly. cui bono Oct 2013 #73

criticizing a choice and denying a choice are two very separate things La Lioness Priyanka Oct 2013 #68

Bingo. This is the critical distinction here. Butterbean Oct 2013 #97

You would think more people on this board would understand this very basic concept. Arugula Latte Oct 2013 #208

I agree. I trash all the threads that trash a woman's right to chose the size of her family. liberal_at_heart Oct 2013 #74

There you said it ...Simple Statement and what CHOICE of Body is About! KoKo Oct 2013 #80

It's not her choice. It's Quiverfull, a male dominated cult. longship Oct 2013 #108

Pardon me for saying so, but... pipi_k Oct 2013 #244

Or the sex of her offspring jberryhill Oct 2013 #84

You keep posting this like it's some kind of winning argument. Llewlladdwr Oct 2013 #107

You have this odd habit jberryhill Oct 2013 #109

I think you might be on to something kcr Oct 2013 #120

Maybe we're arguing about different things? Llewlladdwr Oct 2013 #122

Being "pro choice" means... jberryhill Oct 2013 #124

Okay, I see it now. Llewlladdwr Oct 2013 #134

Just because someone has the right to be a dumbass doesn't mean I don't get to call them a dumbass. msanthrope Oct 2013 #269

Quiverfull movement Shivering Jemmy Oct 2013 #78

It's an irresponsible and selfish choice. Spider Jerusalem Oct 2013 #86

Quiverfull of crap! agentS Oct 2013 #87

Well, they're going to get away with it kcr Oct 2013 #90

True, my brother says you can't unscrew a light bulb. agentS Oct 2013 #93

Boy between the tattoo threads and the Duggar threads I am just sick to death of prejudice liberal_at_heart Oct 2013 #88

What? No one should express their opinions here? Arugula Latte Oct 2013 #214

No one should have more than 3 kids -- the world is way overpopulated as it is FarCenter Oct 2013 #89

Do you happen to have 3 kids yourself? FedUpWithIt All Oct 2013 #138

For the US, 3 is OK; for some parts of the world, 1 is the right number. FarCenter Oct 2013 #157

It's possible you miss the point of "choosing" to have so many kids you need to "meaningfully" ... Hekate Oct 2013 #98

Who needs butter? I've got plenty! Initech Oct 2013 #100

+1 Nevernose Oct 2013 #114

Sure! I've also got the beer. Initech Oct 2013 #238

Post removed Post removed Oct 2013 #103

I'm sick of DU'ers who think voicing an opinion is telling someone how many children they may have. KittyWampus Oct 2013 #106

Maybe because they're doing it for publicity? xfundy Oct 2013 #111

No one here is denying her a choice in the matter. THAT would be her kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #112

Well, as someone who is vocally ZPG. Chan790 Oct 2013 #116

Maybe her husband's penis could fall off instead. cyberswede Oct 2013 #139

Penises falling off is a medical anomaly outside of frostbite or gangrenous injury. Chan790 Oct 2013 #164

Here's what bugs me: wickerwoman Oct 2013 #119

5 and 6 Sivafae Oct 2013 #259

it is her choice Niceguy1 Oct 2013 #128

but what if all those kids go on to twerk to Miley Cyrus, and then get tattoos? Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #129

butbutbutbut what bugs me about her life and her decision to do these things is.... Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #130

Mostly I think this isn't my business unless the children aren't well cared for. DevonRex Oct 2013 #133

Let a newbie take a swipe IkeRepublican Oct 2013 #137

Hell. Have a hundred children if you can afford them. Lint Head Oct 2013 #140

Her vagina is like a clown car" Yuk Yuk Yuk. FedUpWithIt All Oct 2013 #142

The crude jokes are inappropriate Nevernose Oct 2013 #148

And the discussions go far beyond what she has chosen to publically share. n/t FedUpWithIt All Oct 2013 #235

If she loved this planet she'd stop having little consumers. OregonBlue Oct 2013 #145

Also, if she loved pipi_k Oct 2013 #184

Goog luck in taking this issue on on DU Le Taz Hot Oct 2013 #147

You are so very, very wrong. cali Oct 2013 #149

You need to calm down. Seriously. Sheldon Cooper Oct 2013 #150

Your logic is flawed on this, KoKo Tanuki Oct 2013 #151

As someone that spent time in the NICU MelissainKC Oct 2013 #152

I don't care one way or the other davidpdx Oct 2013 #153

I despise the Duggars get the red out Oct 2013 #154

If they were cats, we'd call her a hoarder. WCLinolVir Oct 2013 #156

I'm not in favor of physically stopping her from having children Arkana Oct 2013 #159

If she continues to try to pump out avebury Oct 2013 #278

Well, take away pipi_k Oct 2013 #288

A planet with limited and diminishing resources... 99Forever Oct 2013 #160

They campaigned for Rick Santorum HockeyMom Oct 2013 #161

^This^ PasadenaTrudy Oct 2013 #182

To me that is more disturbing than the fact they have 19 kids. Initech Oct 2013 #240

When I see a reality show celebrating a woman's 20 abortions, I'll agree with you Orrex Oct 2013 #162

Definitely the best comment! get the red out Oct 2013 #185

Well said! City Lights Oct 2013 #194

Breeders are people too Capt. Obvious Oct 2013 #163

At what point does a drinker appear to have a problem? Orsino Oct 2013 #168

MIT: "Growing population will increase global climate challenges" Duppers Oct 2013 #171

Who is trying to deny her right to reproduce? City Lights Oct 2013 #175

No one is. The OP doesn't want us to criticize her Mariana Oct 2013 #178

But ... But ... What if Jimbob reads this and then he can't ... you know ... Arugula Latte Oct 2013 #198

So, in reference to this... pipi_k Oct 2013 #176

I noticed, when doing my family tree Mariana Oct 2013 #180

Exactly! pipi_k Oct 2013 #187

read up on the Quiverfull movement, then decide if you think she has a "choice". nt Javaman Oct 2013 #177

It's not the norm. So someone is going to judge it wrong. Left2Tackle Oct 2013 #183

I think of the Duggar family exactly never. MineralMan Oct 2013 #188

Oh, bullshit. enki23 Oct 2013 #190

You're making a massive false equivalence. JoeyT Oct 2013 #192

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Raster Oct 2013 #197

Thread winner! City Lights Oct 2013 #200

This. theKed Oct 2013 #201

Great post, JoeyT. Arugula Latte Oct 2013 #209

+1000! theHandpuppet Oct 2013 #221

Good post. And the assumption that the many they produce treestar Oct 2013 #222

Best post pipi_k Oct 2013 #239

These type families have no impact on public thought or policy fitman Oct 2013 #251

+1000 WCLinolVir Oct 2013 #287

Boom. Thank you for this response Hong Kong Cavalier Oct 2013 #294

FFS...show me a post where someone actually said they wanted to deny her that right... joeybee12 Oct 2013 #193

They MADE the choice - the DUGGARS Glitterati Oct 2013 #195

Right! DUers had better stop storming the Duggar bedroom to demand Jimbob wear a condom! Arugula Latte Oct 2013 #196

Seven billion miracles is enough. CrispyQ Oct 2013 #204

Claiming that criticism of the Duggars means you are not pro-choice is the No True Scotsman fallacy. Shrike47 Oct 2013 #205

They can DO anything they want to do. Puglover Oct 2013 #207

Uh, I don't even know who she is but anyone *birthing* more than 20 kids (as indicated in your post) valerief Oct 2013 #210

I'm sick of the way this family uses their fame to support anti-choice hate groups BuddhaGirl Oct 2013 #212

What makes you think she's "choosing" this? SomethingFishy Oct 2013 #213

No one is saying it should be illegal treestar Oct 2013 #215

Interesting paradigm CountAllVotes Oct 2013 #220

Thanks...it's on Netflix too! KoKo Oct 2013 #252

She can have as many babies as she wants to Bettie Oct 2013 #225

interesting that you used the word "produces" rather than gives birth to... Scout Oct 2013 #226

If you can afford to take care of kids, fine, have them. But to exploit your kids to gain money and appleannie1 Oct 2013 #227

For some, it's not about choice, it's about the "right" choice. hughee99 Oct 2013 #229

If it were just an issue of choice I would agree but she uses this situation as a political ploy. jwirr Oct 2013 #231

I am sick of people having so little regard for the planet/environment/resources that they choose to livetohike Oct 2013 #234

Christian Fundamentalists Cult Quiverfull otohara Oct 2013 #241

"Pro choice" is not "can never criticize". jeff47 Oct 2013 #243

I believe this is analogous to someone who believes firmly in the first amendment, but actively crit LanternWaste Oct 2013 #249

Filling up the planet with children to make a buck or two is pretty fucked up Vinnie From Indy Oct 2013 #253

"Right to choose", on this site, = "MY right to choose for me and you". closeupready Oct 2013 #255

I'd probably never have known how bizarre and twisted they really are without your post. bunnies Oct 2013 #262

Not when they selfishly use more resources Taverner Oct 2013 #263

People share their opinions, often quite vehemently, IronLionZion Oct 2013 #265

Thanks...It's been interesting reading the replies... KoKo Oct 2013 #282

I'll tell ya what's wrong with it. It's a HORRIBLE choice for her and for society. alp227 Oct 2013 #272

The Duggars can go to HELL!! Their selfishness is beyond belief. Your reasoning that madinmaryland Oct 2013 #273

+1 million darkangel218 Oct 2013 #280

Infant mortality and... pipi_k Oct 2013 #290

I don't care what she does until it kills her... tnlefty Oct 2013 #281

I'm sick of people mischaracterizing women's rights. Daemonaquila Oct 2013 #283

And that's it pipi_k Oct 2013 #289

Fuck her and her clown car mwrguy Oct 2013 #284

If a woman had had that many abortions, and someone here complained about it The Straight Story Oct 2013 #295