General Discussion

Bennyboy

(10,440 posts)

191. I am going to play Devil's advocate here...

Sun Oct 13, 2013, 07:41 PM

Oct 2013

I am a dog lover, having two right now....(but they never leave my yard)

and tell ya that the "Service dog" is a HUGE problem in California. So many people have them, and for all kinds of maladies, that in some cases it is creating a huge problem for all kinds of businesses from grocery stores to restaurants to concerts and bars. it is not you, or the other guy but lots of people have them for some pretty lame reasons and now there are zillions of people who have them strictly so they can take their dogs anywhere. And please don't tell me that does not happen. It does, I know people, a lot of people, who do this.

So the business owner, who doesn't want dogs, has to do something. Dogs no matter how behaved, shed. And that hair becomes a problem to remove and increases the probability of customer complaints. The servers hate the dogs because if they touch them they have to wash immediately. And in a restaurant with dogs that is going to happen. One dog in a restaurant okay. Two dogs and I get antsy and more than that, well I will leave. No matter the patch or the breed. At my local Starbux there is a trainer of aide dogs and he brings his usual dog in and two dogs he is training at all times and they wander from patron to patron for a couple of hours in the morning. By the time those dogs have walked one end to the other of the restaurant many times.

As I am in the concert biz, we direct our staff to let anyone in with a service dog. and sometimes that can be hundreds of people at a large concert or festival.

Now imagine, if you are the promoter and those dogs cause a problem (such as the baby dieing in the dog fight at the Hog Farm way back when). How does the promoter both allow dogs and prevent that type of thing from happening? I have been to restaurants with four or five service dogs there. I have been to groceries that have multiple dogs inside, all with a patch and that really puts me off.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

269 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

I am handicapped -- this morning Spires Restaurant in Torrance , CA, discriminated against me. [View all] Hepburn Oct 2013 OP

How disgusting. CaliforniaPeggy Oct 2013 #1

My friends and I went to Dennys and the manager there was a real doll. Hepburn Oct 2013 #4

service dogs kardonb Oct 2013 #158

To be fair, the service dogs are also better behaved mythology Oct 2013 #248

Thank you for the rec... Hepburn Oct 2013 #2

Never heard of this restaurant but have now and not in a good way. efhmc Oct 2013 #85

I would pass this incident by the ACLU, just to see what they say ... it might RKP5637 Oct 2013 #107

Which Spires? Hawthorne or Sepulveda? I'm guessing Hawthorne. Yelp links here: NYC_SKP Oct 2013 #114

New Policy? More like a stupid over-reaction to Beverly Hills Bimbos and their purse dogs. haele Oct 2013 #141

I wouldn't expect anything different in Teabag Torrance. LoisB Oct 2013 #3

No shit... Hepburn Oct 2013 #5

And off to the Greatest Page for this important story! CaliforniaPeggy Oct 2013 #6

Thank you, Peggy... Hepburn Oct 2013 #10

Your disability didn't bother others, the dog did. Right? leftstreet Oct 2013 #7

I guess so... Hepburn Oct 2013 #14

No doubt leftstreet Oct 2013 #15

I could not go without the service dog... Hepburn Oct 2013 #21

But, would it be discriminating against someone with severe allergies to seat them ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #23

The person with expressed dog allergies wouldn't be forced to sit near the dog. pnwmom Oct 2013 #176

Correct. The ADA is very specific leftstreet Oct 2013 #28

Is overriding health regulations a good thing? Decaffeinated Oct 2013 #245

But maybe in in all cases? Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #253

It might be a guard against those with allergies, Hepburn. ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #18

Can I have separate seating to guard against nasty little children with infectious germs, and jtuck004 Oct 2013 #106

If you'd stop bringing your dog to the restaurant, you'd stop attracting children OmahaBlueDog Oct 2013 #113

I don't bring a dog. n/t jtuck004 Oct 2013 #115

Well maybe you should so you can keep the children away! cui bono Oct 2013 #188

And whlie we are at it, put that rolling fire hazard in a wheel chair in the back of the bus, jtuck004 Oct 2013 #199

Agree. geardaddy Oct 2013 #116

I am allergic to bigoted people uppityperson Oct 2013 #153

Me too formercia Oct 2013 #227

While that sounds like a reasonable explanation, it's not in terms of ADA public accommodation. Gormy Cuss Oct 2013 #135

The link says everyone must be accommodated. MADem Oct 2013 #194

Read further down the page at your link. n/t Gormy Cuss Oct 2013 #219

I read the whole thing. NT MADem Oct 2013 #234

Your link is very clear about isolating the handicapped with service animals fasttense Oct 2013 #213

PLUS, might separation protect the helper dogs from harrassment? Mimosa Oct 2013 #267

I've never heard of people being allergic to crutches jberryhill Oct 2013 #27

Have you ever seen someone being afraid of a person who looks different? Hepburn Oct 2013 #44

Being afraid and being allergic are two very different things quakerboy Oct 2013 #259

Most of the time, I never notice the dog but when I do and forget and start to pet I efhmc Oct 2013 #95

That's just a matter of wording whopis01 Oct 2013 #174

The assistant manager was an idiot. Find out who his/her boss is, and complain. MADem Oct 2013 #8

Agreed. Well said. ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #13

Two things you can do nadinbrzezinski Oct 2013 #9

Any manager who uses "offended" and "segregated" should be fired on the spot... ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #11

Wonder why people with allergies aren't asked to sit separately? mbperrin Oct 2013 #137

And if they were... pipi_k Oct 2013 #150

As a horrifically allergic person... DeadLetterOffice Oct 2013 #222

That's precisely what I suggest - by choice. mbperrin Oct 2013 #243

Sounds like reasonable accommodations were made Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #12

Under both Cal State and Fed law... Hepburn Oct 2013 #16

But the issue is not the disability jberryhill Oct 2013 #22

Then the restaurant says that intaglio Oct 2013 #39

Isn't that exactly the point? tritsofme Oct 2013 #72

So no-one weating scent is allowed intaglio Oct 2013 #193

The patron with the allergy, of course. BodieTown Oct 2013 #87

Pfft cologne MattBaggins Oct 2013 #119

No shit. Whatever musky crap people are slathering themselves with now mbperrin Oct 2013 #138

The labels must read MattBaggins Oct 2013 #140

I'm beginning to think that's the case. AngryOldDem Oct 2013 #206

OK, here's the thing... pipi_k Oct 2013 #152

Most restaurants I've been to Mariana Oct 2013 #197

I see them all the time, and i don't live in a large city Rhythm Oct 2013 #207

Yes. Service dogs are protected under the law so the OP anneboleyn Oct 2013 #192

So should deaf people and blind people sit at the back of the bus? intaglio Oct 2013 #24

Inform them of the Americans with Disabilities Act Buddha_of_Wisdom Oct 2013 #17

The ADA also applies equally to liberalhistorian Oct 2013 #96

Were you refused seating and/or service? jberryhill Oct 2013 #19

Thank you. ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #29

I have allergies -- severe ones -- to certain foods and perfumes. Hepburn Oct 2013 #30

So someone disabled by an allergy has to move? jberryhill Oct 2013 #35

Apparently some disabilities are more important than others... ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #43

They do MattBaggins Oct 2013 #124

A person with a service dog should be able to sit wherever they please. NYC_SKP Oct 2013 #56

Why should the person with an allergy liberalhistorian Oct 2013 #83

If someone has an allergy...then of course reasonable accommodations should be made. Hepburn Oct 2013 #102

Because preemptively segregating someone based on their disability is discriminatory suffragette Oct 2013 #109

Because it makes more sense to move a person with allergies MattBaggins Oct 2013 #127

They shouldn't. It is not legal for either to have preference. The law says to accommodate both. NYC_SKP Oct 2013 #178

You have it exactly right, NYC SKIP kcr Oct 2013 #181

Well said and precisely so, NYC SKP suffragette Oct 2013 #182

exactly right Vattel Oct 2013 #147

An allergy to something you can generally avoid and might yet occasionally kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #63

Asthma and severe allergies are considered a disability under the ADA, kes. ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #79

People with asthma simply have to accept that allergens exist in the world, kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #88

Both need to be accommodated under the ADA. ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #92

I have and when this problem arose in the past with the same Spires, I went to the home office and.. Hepburn Oct 2013 #110

I have the same response to cats...and cat owners. Hepburn Oct 2013 #93

Yes MattBaggins Oct 2013 #122

It is indeed, separate yet equal. LanternWaste Oct 2013 #221

Maybe they should have a separate area. Or put up warning signs like many places do about efhmc Oct 2013 #99

Start with giving god-awful reviews: Cooley Hurd Oct 2013 #20

Others need to know... State the Obvious Oct 2013 #25

Yes... Hepburn Oct 2013 #34

Some of us are allergic to dogs OmahaBlueDog Oct 2013 #26

+1 ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #31

How about a wheelchair only section of the restaurant...??? Hepburn Oct 2013 #32

Are people severely allergic to wheelchairs? To the point where they end up hospitalized? ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #36

The policy violates the ADA as well as Calif law... Hepburn Oct 2013 #40

The policy would violate the ADA if you were not allowed to eat in the restaurant ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #45

No..........any SEGREGATION of anyone disabled is against the law. PERIOD. Hepburn Oct 2013 #52

Here you go... ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #54

Hint word "BOTH"...not just the one with the service animal is to be segregated. Hepburn Oct 2013 #59

It also means not just the one with the allergy should be segregated. ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #76

You really don't get it, do you? Hepburn Oct 2013 #80

Some of us get asthma because of your dog. OmahaBlueDog Oct 2013 #86

I wouldn't bother trying to explain liberalhistorian Oct 2013 #101

As my grandma would say "It all depends on whose ox is gored." OmahaBlueDog Oct 2013 #108

Thanks! OmahaBlueDog Oct 2013 #75

You are misinterpreting that MattBaggins Oct 2013 #132

That's a reference to living or work arrangements where both parties have a chronic issue. Gormy Cuss Oct 2013 #142

Yes it is, MattBaggins Oct 2013 #131

So the right to have a service dog trumps the right of someone not to have an asthma attack? OmahaBlueDog Oct 2013 #74

No it is not reasonable to segregate them MattBaggins Oct 2013 #136

So what if pipi_k Oct 2013 #170

They can ask if anyone with a service dog has sat at that table since it was cleaned. kcr Oct 2013 #184

There are wheelchair spots in stadiums, theaters, airplanes and trains jberryhill Oct 2013 #38

How about you try being more liberalhistorian Oct 2013 #94

Yes it is. Allergy to something you might occasionally encounter or kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #66

They segregate peanut allergy sufferers in my kid's school, and have nut free zones. OmahaBlueDog Oct 2013 #82

A school is not a restaurant, in case you were having trouble with that concept. kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #91

I have no problem with the concept OmahaBlueDog Oct 2013 #104

I don't get anaphylaxis from my allergies. kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #97

I do get, on rare occasions, anaphylaxis from my allergies OmahaBlueDog Oct 2013 #100

I think offended was the wrong word to use. alphafemale Oct 2013 #33

So.........all disabled people are segreated instead??? Hepburn Oct 2013 #37

So just those that are severely allergic to dogs should be segregated. Gotcha. ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #47

No...NO ONE should be segregated because of ANY disability. Hepburn Oct 2013 #49

That's rather rude, Hepburn. ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #53

Your very own link proves you wrong, I'm afraid: NYC_SKP Oct 2013 #62

+1 nt Live and Learn Oct 2013 #98

The fact that the manager tried to tblue37 Oct 2013 #244

Why the hell should my husband with allergies liberalhistorian Oct 2013 #105

He doesn't have to move. He does have to notify restaurant staff of his need for accommodation Gormy Cuss Oct 2013 #145

Great info, Gormy suffragette Oct 2013 #166

Bingo! Hepburn Oct 2013 #171

They could just give protective suits to wear-- snooper2 Oct 2013 #230

What happens when 3 people with service animals visit in one day? joeglow3 Oct 2013 #224

Wow... Hepburn Oct 2013 #163

Some of the responses to you in this thread really have me shaking my head. kcr Oct 2013 #189

exactly what I was thinking TorchTheWitch Oct 2013 #200

A lot fo people are really afraid of dogs. A lot of people find them dirty. A lot of people love robinlynne Oct 2013 #50

Some consider dogs to be "unclean" in a religious sense. Enthusiast Oct 2013 #103

Those who are phobic? MattBaggins Oct 2013 #139

Because mental health issues aren't real? Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #249

Nice try MattBaggins Oct 2013 #256

Same to you. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #260

Offended by having a DOG in a restaurant??? elleng Oct 2013 #41

I've been to Europe and I found all the damn dogs annoying. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #254

Was responding to OP, elleng Oct 2013 #257

Wanting to have your dog in the restaurant with you does not mean you are entitled to that either. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #262

This is against the law suffragette Oct 2013 #42

Hug back... Hepburn Oct 2013 #48

What they did was wrong suffragette Oct 2013 #61

Thank you for the info... Hepburn Oct 2013 #70

You are correct. They can not ask you that. suffragette Oct 2013 #89

I'm sorry for your experience. aikoaiko Oct 2013 #46

If someone needs extra time to complete a college exam, they will likely find themselves kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #73

K/R. Don't let 'em get you down, Hepburn. NYC_SKP Oct 2013 #51

Thanks... Hepburn Oct 2013 #55

Uh, I think there is one person and a person who is in charge Cleita Oct 2013 #57

Cleita, see post # 42 suffragette Oct 2013 #68

You are so right and I'm happy to see there is actually recourse. n/t Cleita Oct 2013 #121

Around here the biggest problem with having a service dog... Walk away Oct 2013 #58

Most people are pretty cool and ask if they can pet the dog... Hepburn Oct 2013 #60

All over Europe even the worst hehaved dogs are guests of honor... Walk away Oct 2013 #65

Why did this even come up? ProudToBeBlueInRhody Oct 2013 #64

Because there may be people like my husband, who liberalhistorian Oct 2013 #111

What they did was wrong. Unless they KNEW that they already had seated a victim of alergies.... NYC_SKP Oct 2013 #118

But that's not what I'm getting at.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Oct 2013 #198

It's touchy. What happens when disabilities overlap? Glassunion Oct 2013 #67

Easy. They have to accommodate both. NYC_SKP Oct 2013 #77

Exactly. N/T Hepburn Oct 2013 #90

How about pipi_k Oct 2013 #187

I am allergic to perfume... Hepburn Oct 2013 #78

Hepburn, nobody is allergic to *all ingredients* in a scent Mimosa Oct 2013 #266

Doesn't the ADA frown upon this? Vashta Nerada Oct 2013 #69

Big time...and the fines for discrimination are HORRENDOUS! Hepburn Oct 2013 #84

And I want that for you as well. Vashta Nerada Oct 2013 #172

I live right here in Torrance. I think the asst. mngr. broke the law. That was very nirvana555 Oct 2013 #123

If they are seated and eating and someone asks, I have NO problem of going to another area. Hepburn Oct 2013 #167

Out of curiosity... Vashta Nerada Oct 2013 #175

Not to be horribly rude, bu what happens to the patron with a severe glowing Oct 2013 #71

If someone has an extreme allergy... Hepburn Oct 2013 #81

I completely agree. glowing Oct 2013 #134

Fuck asthmatics, they don't count jberryhill Oct 2013 #190

Asthmatics and people with allergies Mariana Oct 2013 #212

Which is a dumb request if there are no dogs when they arrive jberryhill Oct 2013 #214

Not really. Someone with a service dog could come in Mariana Oct 2013 #217

Asthmatics are far more common than people with dogs Mimosa Oct 2013 #268

According to ADA, "Allergies and fear of dogs are not valid reasons for denying access or refusing Emit Oct 2013 #112

I am sorry that happened to you gopiscrap Oct 2013 #117

I've very sorry you were treated that way LittleGirl Oct 2013 #120

Possibly a DU'er; greiner3 Oct 2013 #125

I am hearing impaired, via the military! Rebellious Republican Oct 2013 #126

Unfortunate choice of words pipi_k Oct 2013 #128

Then those people can be asked to be seated elsewhere. kcr Oct 2013 #179

I HATE dining in a restaurant with a service dog ... Denninmi Oct 2013 #129

What an AWFUL place of business! obama2terms Oct 2013 #130

I have a question about this. cbayer Oct 2013 #133

I have severe difficulties with hearing things which are behind me. Hepburn Oct 2013 #157

Thank you so much for your very thoughtful response. It makes a lot of sense to me. cbayer Oct 2013 #162

Don't forget if you drop your keys of wallet. Walk away Oct 2013 #203

the city i grew up in barbtries Oct 2013 #143

This one is at Sepulveda and Western. Hepburn Oct 2013 #164

i know exactly where that is. barbtries Oct 2013 #195

I think guys sulphurdunn Oct 2013 #144

It seems to me that separation (NOT segregation) would accommodate both Cairycat Oct 2013 #146

Amen! N/T Hepburn Oct 2013 #161

kick Liberal_in_LA Oct 2013 #148

Spires is now on the SHIT LIST. - K&R n/t DeSwiss Oct 2013 #149

Make ist simple.... every restuarant is on whistler162 Oct 2013 #232

That's pretty much the case for me anyway. DeSwiss Oct 2013 #237

I have not yet read the thread. I want to get some information Jenoch Oct 2013 #151

Not really... Hepburn Oct 2013 #159

It sounds like an area of a restaurant where I have ended up being seated many times, Jenoch Oct 2013 #169

I would love to see the list of rock Oct 2013 #154

I can understand being offended...that is one thing. Hepburn Oct 2013 #173

Why? Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #250

Thought it obvious rock Oct 2013 #258

Wow, you've got a lot of publicizing to do! However, people who are offended by dogs in restaurantsa Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #263

What they did to you is pretty crappy. secondvariety Oct 2013 #155

This needs posted at Facebook. They would lose all their business except the offended asses. appleannie1 Oct 2013 #156

I don't have a facebook account...can someone do this for me? Hepburn Oct 2013 #160

Posted to my wall. There is a restaurant in PGH that does not allow children appleannie1 Oct 2013 #165

wow... Hepburn Oct 2013 #168

It has been a while. appleannie1 Oct 2013 #177

John and Catherine Hartakis... luvspeas Oct 2013 #180

Sadly, this thread seems to have descended into literal "pit bull at olive garden" territory Scootaloo Oct 2013 #183

People with asthma and animal allergies liberalhistorian Oct 2013 #239

An asthmatic or allergic person should inform the staff Mariana Oct 2013 #246

Is there anything identifying the dog as a service dog? wercal Oct 2013 #185

You should let the media know about this. Stinky The Clown Oct 2013 #186

I am going to play Devil's advocate here... Bennyboy Oct 2013 #191

Well, as someone who dislikes dogs, I would not go to a restaurant with dogs in them quinnox Oct 2013 #196

I pity you. mbperrin Oct 2013 #205

Why the pity? ajk2821 Oct 2013 #209

I believe that person is probably a dog lover, quinnox Oct 2013 #211

quinnox, I am personally pretty neutral when it LibDemAlways Oct 2013 #208

Yep, I know there are others quinnox Oct 2013 #210

Recently in a local deli restaurant LibDemAlways Oct 2013 #218

Great examples. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #252

Amen. We have a friend who is crazy about dogs and she gets offended whenever i move away from her Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #251

You and I must have been separated at birth. LibDemAlways Oct 2013 #255

Our first dog, when I was 3 or 4 was named Neutron by my dad. Supposedly I liked that dog. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #265

Holy cow, this is just evil TorchTheWitch Oct 2013 #201

That's not discrimination against you. It's common courtesy for the remaining patrons. n/t Lil Missy Oct 2013 #202

This kind of discrimination has to break the law. Rhiannon12866 Oct 2013 #204

This message was self-deleted by its author otohara Oct 2013 #215

My dog has an answer for that Assistant Manager KurtNYC Oct 2013 #216

Several Minneapolis St. Paul restaurants with outdoor patio seating MineralMan Oct 2013 #220

Are you new to Torrance? Egalitarian Thug Oct 2013 #223

A bit of drama here dont' you think? BellaLuna Oct 2013 #225

Exactly so. Mimosa Oct 2013 #269

You shall overcome Capt. Obvious Oct 2013 #226

Which Spires were you at.. the one on Hawthorne or near Western? BellaLuna Oct 2013 #228

I'm sorry, Hepburn. Bertha Venation Oct 2013 #229

The manager was wrong, but... tavernier Oct 2013 #231

PATHETIC on the part of the restaurant management. alp227 Oct 2013 #233

Get a lawyer. Pab Sungenis Oct 2013 #235

That's ridiculous! Jamastiene Oct 2013 #236

So disgusting to read some responses here mentalsolstice Oct 2013 #238

Post removed Post removed Oct 2013 #240

Uh huh. Tell Frank hi. eom uppityperson Oct 2013 #241

Kick & recommended. William769 Oct 2013 #242

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2013 #247

KNR. Illegal & unacceptable. DirkGently Oct 2013 #261

Who owns the restaurant? Mimosa Oct 2013 #264