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frazzled

(18,402 posts)
29. Only if you're trying to sensationalize what he said
Thu Oct 17, 2013, 11:47 AM
Oct 2013

Nice try with the scare headers.

First, we know what the president's position is on long-term deficits. There is no problem with short-term deficits. That's standard (liberal) economic positioning.

Second, the president ran on this position. Don't act shocked.

Third, let's take Social Security and the chained CPI question, which is the biggest issue for us here. Obama is not out on a limb on this one in terms of liberal policy. As you know, the two biggest liberal think tanks have endorsed it. We may disagree, but it's not some "conservative" plan that he's adopted (the conservative plan would be to kill Social Security). And there are arguments to be made for it. They are not about Social Security per se but about how we can raise revenues for the government in general, which benefit all, and can sustain other programs that help the poor. So unless you think we can get tax hikes from the Republicans to help fund everything the government does (in which case you are hopefully naive), one way to raise substantial revenues is through chained CPI, which affects many things in the codes. They argument--which I'm not asking you to buy (I may not buy it myself, and it's certainly not my preference) goes like this:

The case against moving to the chained CPI is easy to make: It represents a real cut to seniors’ Social Security benefits, which has so far been a non-starter. Even advocates of the switch acknowledge this. But since we may have to swallow it, it’s worth laying out the best progressive argument possible in favor of the chained CPI. We’re not saying it’s right, but it’s a case that should be made.

And the argument does exist. The Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, one of most well-respected liberal think tanks on policy analysis, has endorsed the change. As has the Center for American Progress, Washington’s most powerful liberal think tank, which recommended the chained CPI in its comprehensive Social Security reform plan.

...

On its own, the chained CPI is unquestionably bad, but as part of a deal to raise taxes, extend unemployment benefits and do the other good things Obama wants to do, and if it includes major mitigating tweaks, it can be made almost palatable.

First of all, it’s important to note that the CPI formula doesn’t affect just Social Security. Rather, it appears in hundreds of different places on both the revenue and spending side of government. Almost every government retirement, disability and income-support program pays annual cost of living adjustments that are linked to the CPI. On the tax side, dozens of elements, from the standard deduction to limits on contributions to 401K plans to the earned income and child tax credits, are adjusted every year based on the CPI.

The whole point of the CPI is make sure benefits keep pace with inflation on the one hand, and to ensure that people are paying enough taxes as inflation changes on the other hand. So while the chained CPI cuts benefits, it also raises revenues in a way that’s palatable to Republicans. The change is estimated to save about $220 billion over 10 years, $72 billion of which would come from increased tax revenue.

Moreover, both CBPP and CAP, along with many independent economists, believe the chained CPI is a more accurate measure of inflation than the current index, called the CPI-W. The CPI is calculated by measuring price changes in a basket of 250 common consumer goods, but only the chained CPI takes into account that people shift their buying habits in response to price changes. Adjusting for that, the chained CPI grows about .3 percent slower than the current rate.

Liberals rightly note that this substitution effect isn’t really true for the very poor and very old, who spend a disproportionate amount of their income on non-substitutable goods like healthcare and housing. That’s why the only acceptable way to shift to the chained CPI is to include exemptions for some of the most vulnerable groups.

There are two major changes necessary. First, add a bump in benefits to the very old, who are more likely to have high healthcare bills and to have exhausted their savings that supplemented their Social Security income. Second, exempt Supplemental Security Income, which serves the poorest, disabled and blind but still often leaves people below the poverty line. SSI benefits should actually be increased, but that would require a different effort, so it should at the minimum be exempted from the CPI change.

Obama has indicated that he will demand these changes.

http://www.salon.com/2012/12/19/the_progressive_case_for_the_chained_cpi/

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

So, it's obvious that we still have some major work to do here. CaliforniaPeggy Oct 2013 #1
He's right about the projected expenditures. randome Oct 2013 #4
Expenditures from rich people raiding it? leftstreet Oct 2013 #12
The 'raiding' is only on paper but you're right, it should never be used for ANYTHING else. randome Oct 2013 #15
You have to buy your own insurance. It's not Medicare leftstreet Oct 2013 #18
But the President was talking about SS and Medicare. randome Oct 2013 #23
Yes. You brought up private insurance leftstreet Oct 2013 #25
I meant 'health insurance' as in Medicare, not ACA. randome Oct 2013 #28
Medicare is not self-funded and never was. bornskeptic Oct 2013 #45
We Medicare recipients are paying for it. RebelOne Oct 2013 #53
Both programs are running a cash flow deficit. Yo_Mama Oct 2013 #101
No he is not. SS has enough revenue to cover its obligations, thanks to the American Working Class sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #34
Yeah, what Sabrina said. Could not agree more. JEB Oct 2013 #54
He doesn't know what he is talking about, only repeating what his puppetmaster Peter J. Peterson duffyduff Oct 2013 #97
PLUS ONE! Enthusiast Oct 2013 #117
He has never supported raising the cap. Not once! AnotherMcIntosh Oct 2013 #129
Well, he should. randome Oct 2013 #130
No he shouldn't. That would be a betrayal of the rich and the trickle-down theory. AnotherMcIntosh Oct 2013 #133
Betray away! randome Oct 2013 #135
Pssst, not everything is about 'political capital'. In fact to a vast majority sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #140
Link. NCTraveler Oct 2013 #2
A transcript should be available shortly. jsr Oct 2013 #8
Thank you. NCTraveler Oct 2013 #14
Here is a link to what he just said: jsr Oct 2013 #24
Great, it was expected. So here's the obligation they have around 'things' like Medicare and SS'. sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #39
Who knows what he means it changes..but, Recommend. The fix KoKo Oct 2013 #80
Excellent post. I agree 100%. NCTraveler Oct 2013 #116
For sure there are challenges with long-term obligations regarding medicare and ss. DCBob Oct 2013 #42
Great... haikugal Oct 2013 #3
+infinity newfie11 Oct 2013 #17
+ another infinity Scuba Oct 2013 #20
and nothing about the 1% and corporate tax dodgers shortchanging the country ... Myrina Oct 2013 #30
It's never mentioned. Enthusiast Oct 2013 #118
As Denis Leary would say, Two Words: LondonReign2 Oct 2013 #5
He said that because we need to insure that these programs get stronger awake Oct 2013 #6
SS is one of the strongest Fiscal programs we have right now. All it needs to ensure it remains sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #41
Grrrrr progressoid Oct 2013 #7
Well if you are planning on giving away more jobs then the tax revenue will continue to drop. L0oniX Oct 2013 #9
It's an excellent speech, meant to unite. Getting pissed defeats the point. nt BluegrassStateBlues Oct 2013 #10
Thats right he is being the President of all of america not just us here awake Oct 2013 #11
Yep. This OP is divisive and part of the problem. nt BluegrassStateBlues Oct 2013 #26
there is good reason to be concerned. magical thyme Oct 2013 #27
+1 GreenPartyVoter Oct 2013 #103
+2 Enthusiast Oct 2013 #119
+3 Nailed it! n/t fredamae Oct 2013 #128
+4 nt stillwaiting Oct 2013 #131
Not reallly...He chastised "extremists in both parties"....Dissed Bloggers and Media. KoKo Oct 2013 #60
+1 GreenPartyVoter Oct 2013 #104
Very well said, KoKo. Enthusiast Oct 2013 #120
Rather, pissing off your audience misses the point. I suppose now we're going to Egalitarian Thug Oct 2013 #88
I cannot stand this constant attack from the Tea Party AND from WITHIN, aka, the neo-liberals merbex Oct 2013 #13
I don't understand your ire. dixiegrrrrl Oct 2013 #38
Good for you - I'm tired of the obfuscation merbex Oct 2013 #44
Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2013 #61
This message was self-deleted by its author stillcool Oct 2013 #79
I agree...why wouldn't a Democratic President stand with the Dems who Elected Him! KoKo Oct 2013 #83
Neoliberalism is EVIL, EVIL, EVIL duffyduff Oct 2013 #99
Raise the damn cap! Enough said! Nt newfie11 Oct 2013 #16
Eliminate the damn cap. Problem solved! SammyWinstonJack Oct 2013 #21
Medicare is the much bigger problem. dkf Oct 2013 #22
Nah. PETRUS Oct 2013 #64
Isn't that the truth! dkf Oct 2013 #70
No politician wants to piss off the big donors. PETRUS Oct 2013 #71
We haven't begun to educate people on this subject. dkf Oct 2013 #74
And we shouldn't enable their cowardice. closeupready Oct 2013 #81
plus one. Tuesday Afternoon Oct 2013 #77
In so far as universal healthcare remains a goal... Chan790 Oct 2013 #85
Translation..... HooptieWagon Oct 2013 #19
And they don't want to have to pay back the trillions they borrowed from the SS Fund. sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #43
Yep, that too. HooptieWagon Oct 2013 #51
Only if you're trying to sensationalize what he said frazzled Oct 2013 #29
What nonsense. We don't need 'exemptions'. Every person who paid into the fund did so the same way sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #46
Sorry that you didn't fully comprehend the issues here frazzled Oct 2013 #52
As a Democrat I assure you I have educated myself fully on this issue, a cornerstone of Democratic sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #56
The President says, "We have to eat our peas." Enthusiast Oct 2013 #123
Sabrina has it right hardcover Oct 2013 #110
Exactly, thank you!! sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #111
Center for American Progress and Center for Budget and Policy Priorities are linked pottedplant Oct 2013 #63
No, Slate called them liberal, as does every other arbiter of such things frazzled Oct 2013 #72
ROFLMFAO n/t Oilwellian Oct 2013 #102
The "arbiters of such things" are allied with Pete Peterson. Enthusiast Oct 2013 #124
Welcome to DU gopiscrap Oct 2013 #108
I'll take Chained-CPI along with reduced Medicare cost sharing, programs that help the young, etc. Hoyt Oct 2013 #84
I can't believe you believe this. Cleita Oct 2013 #86
Many of us are though. And 15 years or so from now, if economy does not improve, Hoyt Oct 2013 #90
So you think that doing it on the backs of the poorest Cleita Oct 2013 #91
Did I say that? Did I not say earlier "as long as there are protection . . . . ."? Hoyt Oct 2013 #92
Most of those poor people are on SSDI and other govt programs that Cleita Oct 2013 #93
Didn't say a thing about getting rid of anything, or even reducing anything. Hoyt Oct 2013 #96
Liberal think tanks? Enthusiast Oct 2013 #122
NO, our "problem" is with MILITARY EXPENDITURES!! grasswire Oct 2013 #31
I agree, it's really getting out of hand. B Calm Oct 2013 #40
So true! Now there's the real "third rail," eh? GreenPartyVoter Oct 2013 #105
Simple "fix" of the long term problem with Social Security awake Oct 2013 #32
Simple "fix" of the long term problem with Medicare awake Oct 2013 #33
Thank you - TBF Oct 2013 #36
It is not too late to add the option of buying into Medicare awake Oct 2013 #67
He's been saying it since the first state of the union address - TBF Oct 2013 #35
I listened to the speech. What you are implying is a distortion of MineralMan Oct 2013 #37
They let the President take his victory quarter lap... Jeff In Milwaukee Oct 2013 #48
It's funny, too. Having listened to the President's remarks, MineralMan Oct 2013 #50
Paul Ryan says the same thing - the Republicans want to strengthen these programs Samantha Oct 2013 #87
Both the President and Nancy Pelosi have suggested Chained CPI as a mechanism for Enthusiast Oct 2013 #125
It's going to happen. AnotherMcIntosh Oct 2013 #134
If it happens before the 2014 election it will Enthusiast Oct 2013 #136
He's like a prize fighter that holds a palooka up in a clinch so that the round won't end. AnotherMcIntosh Oct 2013 #138
+1 uponit7771 Oct 2013 #66
Math is math. The government OWES Social Security a lot of money. phleshdef Oct 2013 #47
The other alternative... Jeff In Milwaukee Oct 2013 #49
+1. Stop outsourcing our manufacturing jobs as with the proposed TPP. Enthusiast Oct 2013 #126
Maybe he has too many Republican advisors. Too many in his cabinet and elsewhere. AnotherMcIntosh Oct 2013 #137
The federal government can't go broke. Obama is repeating Cato Institute, Peterson lies duffyduff Oct 2013 #100
Our "problem" is with the private health insurance industry telling us what to do. Leopolds Ghost Oct 2013 #55
I thought about you whenI came across this: NYC_SKP Dec 2013 #142
This is it!!! Here it comes!!! Any second!!! JoePhilly Oct 2013 #57
Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2013 #58
Yes, the govt needs to put back the 2.4 trillion Rex Oct 2013 #59
Yes they do need to put it back. lonestarnot Oct 2013 #109
This message was self-deleted by its author polichick Oct 2013 #62
The "problem" is that the DC legislators have stolen the money in those funds SoCalDem Oct 2013 #65
This is why we can't have nice things. GeorgeGist Oct 2013 #68
Social Security has a problem pnwmom Oct 2013 #69
Stop paying FICA taxes and see what a big problem it is. kentuck Oct 2013 #73
Here's an idea - eliminate the cap on SS tax, and put a bit more of FICA towards Medicare muriel_volestrangler Oct 2013 #75
time to open the Overton window to the left again: harm SSI and Medicare and I support impeachment NuttyFluffers Oct 2013 #76
psst. Mr. President. over here! Deep13 Oct 2013 #78
"Our"? Um no, Your. Most people don't have a problem with it. closeupready Oct 2013 #82
Here's what the President said: ProSense Oct 2013 #89
If he goes for Chained CPI I will support privitization or repeal Demo_Chris Oct 2013 #94
Shock Doctrine/ Starve the Beast is action. morningfog Oct 2013 #95
Yep. And it's both political parties responsible for this duffyduff Oct 2013 #98
Fix SS and Medicare? bkkyosemite Oct 2013 #106
How can our long-term obligations to SS be an issue... Oilwellian Oct 2013 #107
We will have to cash the trust fund in over the next two decades madville Oct 2013 #113
There is a problem, here is the link madville Oct 2013 #112
Good post. Worse, those projections are based on rosier economic projections Hoyt Oct 2013 #114
Facts mean nothing to some of those on this thread. randome Oct 2013 #121
You seem to think depletion of the trust fund will be a disaster. Lasher Oct 2013 #141
Obama's been a deficit hawk from day one. joshcryer Oct 2013 #115
and our problem with SS and Medicare IS . . . annabanana Oct 2013 #127
I wouldn't want to try to repeat that while intoxicated, but you're absolutely right. n/t winter is coming Oct 2013 #132
We have to give lying criminal repukes credibility to continue the left/right paradigm fraud Corruption Inc Oct 2013 #139
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