General Discussion

jeff47

(26,549 posts)

64. Focusing on the dangers of binge drinking is inherently focusing blame on the victim.

Fri Oct 18, 2013, 12:14 PM

Oct 2013

Woman gets drunk, or is drugged. Gets raped. "But we told you not to get drunk!" "You hung out with the wrong crowd!" "Your honor, she didn't do what she was supposed to do." Case dismissed.

That's what you aren't getting - the focus needs to be on the rapist as the source of the problem. Articles like in the OP divert that focus into the victim's behavior. Society needs to keep the focus on the rapist's behavior. Just like we don't tell victims of car theft that they shouldn't have driven away from their garage.

That's not to say we should never tell our children to be aware of their surroundings and such. But parents have to tell their children not to touch a hot stove too. Society doesn't demand classes on stove awareness to solve that.

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Alcohol Education Is Not Rape Apology [View all] cali Oct 2013 OP

The idea that teaching ways not be a victim is victim blaming is childish. redgreenandblue Oct 2013 #1

Very well put. (nt) enough Oct 2013 #6

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2013 #79

Unfortunately men drinking also increases the risk of rape intaglio Oct 2013 #2

the article goes into that cali Oct 2013 #4

you forgot that if you are the man and intoxicated that you are a rape victim too. tillikum Oct 2013 #8

Is reading not your strong point? intaglio Oct 2013 #17

i don't like the inherent sexism of terms like "vulnerable men". tillikum Oct 2013 #20

So a drunken man is not vulnerable? intaglio Oct 2013 #24

i don't like the distinction. vulnerable vs. what...predatory? can females be predatory as well? tillikum Oct 2013 #25

Oh, boy. Trying to put words into my mouth intaglio Oct 2013 #33

it might be my fault, as i did try and dumb it down tillikum Oct 2013 #35

A predator in this context is someone who preys on other people intaglio Oct 2013 #112

i like that actually. opportunisim and the will to exploit yes? tillikum Oct 2013 #121

That woosh sound is the point flying over your head. joeglow3 Oct 2013 #15

Why do the vulnerable need education whilst the abusers get a pass? intaglio Oct 2013 #21

Nobody gets a freaking pass! scheming daemons Oct 2013 #59

Missing the point intaglio Oct 2013 #108

Bull fucking shit joeglow3 Oct 2013 #123

Indulging in dangerous behaviour is a separate issue from people exploiting those behaviours intaglio Oct 2013 #145

Because of reality that's why... Decaffeinated Oct 2013 #97

So do you want women locked away? intaglio Oct 2013 #109

That is sick and if one person (probably a woman)... Decaffeinated Oct 2013 #114

So now I am to blame and not the rapist intaglio Oct 2013 #119

I have said this before and I'll say it again. Sheldon Cooper Oct 2013 #3

Until men wake up after a night of drinking with 10 inch dildos up their rectums, MattBaggins Oct 2013 #9

Got it in one. distantearlywarning Oct 2013 #12

A male friend of mine was raped. joeglow3 Oct 2013 #16

So you're saying your friends blamed the victim too, even though he was male? distantearlywarning Oct 2013 #122

this isn't about blame or about having "a drink" cali Oct 2013 #32

I think the best way to teach women is to.... trumad Oct 2013 #5

hard to do that when you're passed out. cali Oct 2013 #31

True... trumad Oct 2013 #90

I find it difficult to believe MadrasT Oct 2013 #7

Man-splaining, noblesse oblige MattBaggins Oct 2013 #10

I don't. I've known plenty of kids who need this cali Oct 2013 #11

Agreed... my 19year old daughter in college has been to parties where scheming daemons Oct 2013 #60

Do they educate men that binge drinking could make them rapists? geek tragedy Oct 2013 #13

yes. it's in the article. cali Oct 2013 #18

You believe all men are a few drinks away from becoming rapists?! Demo_Chris Oct 2013 #124

Read up on the word "could." nt geek tragedy Oct 2013 #127

Are you suggesting that you are using the word "could" to mean... Demo_Chris Oct 2013 #128

Awfully touchy. nt geek tragedy Oct 2013 #129

How about alcohol education for young men? distantearlywarning Oct 2013 #14

that's in the article I quoted from and linked to. cali Oct 2013 #19

Too many people confuse advocating praticing situational awareness with "blaming the victim". Nye Bevan Oct 2013 #22

it's mind boggling and stupid. cali Oct 2013 #29

Good article, cali. polly7 Oct 2013 #23

How about also making sure get the red out Oct 2013 #26

for the umpteenth time in this thread: that's in the article I posted cali Oct 2013 #28

Yeah we should also be teaching people that stealing is wrong! Kurska Oct 2013 #34

Here's why that analogy doesn't work kcr Oct 2013 #36

I don't follow your logic at all. Kurska Oct 2013 #37

Because you're "solving the problem" by going after the victims jeff47 Oct 2013 #40

If you think you can fix the underlying problem by saying "don't rape" I got some bad news for you. Kurska Oct 2013 #42

The thing you don't get is when someone is robbed, no one says "you were asking for it". jeff47 Oct 2013 #52

first of all, the article most certainly does NOT tell women not to drink cali Oct 2013 #44

Yeah! Why the fuck would people use shorthand on a message board instead of jeff47 Oct 2013 #50

I wonder if some of these people who hold this opinion realize kcr Oct 2013 #54

But we aren't talking about teaching self defense, here. kcr Oct 2013 #41

The first thing you'll learn in any self defense class is... Kurska Oct 2013 #45

Okee dokee kcr Oct 2013 #48

Stop making sense! (+1,000,000.) nt. polly7 Oct 2013 #49

Good article, Cali antiquie Oct 2013 #27

It depends on how it's framed. kcr Oct 2013 #30

There's a huge difference between "Now, now, now. Don't go getting yourself raped!" and polly7 Oct 2013 #38

Like I said kcr Oct 2013 #39

I don't think anyone is advising concentrating advice on the dangers of binge drinking polly7 Oct 2013 #43

But that's exactly what's being suggested kcr Oct 2013 #46

Oh good *'ing grief. polly7 Oct 2013 #47

Oh, I know kcr Oct 2013 #51

Boggles the mind that anything advocating education and awareness polly7 Oct 2013 #53

And I guess it just must make some feel safer to think kcr Oct 2013 #55

I don't see anyone focusing on women only in any of this. polly7 Oct 2013 #56

Oh, I guess the articles telling women not to binge drink kcr Oct 2013 #58

The article linked to in the OP says this: polly7 Oct 2013 #62

But it does make her article less worthwhile kcr Oct 2013 #68

Focus on empowerment and education. For all. Period. nt. polly7 Oct 2013 #70

There you go kcr Oct 2013 #74

lmfao. Spin, spin. nt. polly7 Oct 2013 #78

Focusing on the dangers of binge drinking is inherently focusing blame on the victim. jeff47 Oct 2013 #64

Articles like the OP remind anyone put into a vulnerable position, of the possibilities polly7 Oct 2013 #69

Except the only thing being done is reminding of the possibilities. jeff47 Oct 2013 #73

No one has said it is all that needs to be done. polly7 Oct 2013 #75

The article referenced in the OP only talks about the dangers of binge drinking. jeff47 Oct 2013 #85

Well no shit. polly7 Oct 2013 #94

If I was blaming hot oil for the dangers of cooking while nude jeff47 Oct 2013 #95

Did you say something? nt. polly7 Oct 2013 #96

Oh, my. What a stunningly convincing argument. (nt) jeff47 Oct 2013 #98

About as convincing as dismissing a good article that is meant to inform polly7 Oct 2013 #100

The article isn't in a vacuum. jeff47 Oct 2013 #103

It's giving good information. polly7 Oct 2013 #106

You can't claim women are intelligent but also need an article to tell them jeff47 Oct 2013 #113

Did I say that? Where? polly7 Oct 2013 #115

"..like we don't tell victims of car theft that they shouldn't have driven away from their garage" scheming daemons Oct 2013 #76

As I responded to you elsewhere jeff47 Oct 2013 #86

Society's focus should also be on eliminating the opportunities for the criminal scheming daemons Oct 2013 #88

Very well said. nt. polly7 Oct 2013 #89

And how has that actually worked? jeff47 Oct 2013 #91

They might really think it's that simple. kcr Oct 2013 #118

I'm fine with it so far as it's part of a larger education effort that includes men gollygee Oct 2013 #57

People have forgotten "Candy is dandy, but liquor is quicker"? FarCenter Oct 2013 #61

Only on DU could giving the advice "Don't binge drink!" be considered a bad thing scheming daemons Oct 2013 #63

Since the original article talks about hearing this somewhere other than DU gollygee Oct 2013 #65

When it's the only advice being given, yes it is a bad thing. (nt) jeff47 Oct 2013 #66

What other advice should I give my 19 year old daughter? scheming daemons Oct 2013 #71

This is talking about college programs gollygee Oct 2013 #81

The advice I will be giving my son a few years from now jeff47 Oct 2013 #82

Good article. LittleBlue Oct 2013 #67

I'll put it this way. LuvNewcastle Oct 2013 #72

No, you don't get it. scheming daemons Oct 2013 #83

I really don't know what world some of these people live in. LuvNewcastle Oct 2013 #93

We could also try educating young men about rape. NuclearDem Oct 2013 #77

Another person who didn't read the article scheming daemons Oct 2013 #80

People don't all know how to define "rape" gollygee Oct 2013 #84

I did read the article. NuclearDem Oct 2013 #87

It's especially victim blaming in this case kcr Oct 2013 #92

what. the. fuck. are you actually defending binge drinking? cali Oct 2013 #101

Oh, yes, Cali, that's exactly what I'm doing. Defending binge drinking. kcr Oct 2013 #102

it's simple. there are rapists. they are always responsible for cali Oct 2013 #104

But it isn't merely recommending reasonable precautions kcr Oct 2013 #107

i think you meant "victim" and not "woman" as that confers a bias. tillikum Oct 2013 #126

BTW, There are other health reasons as to why one should not binge drink alcohol other than rape. Yavin4 Oct 2013 #99

Yoffe has a long, well established record of rape denial. LeftyMom Oct 2013 #105

Yeah people see it framed in an odd way gollygee Oct 2013 #111

People should be able to walk down a street drunk/high and naked... uriel1972 Oct 2013 #110

"Blame the rapist but protect yourself." Brigid Oct 2013 #116

That's exactly right. nt. polly7 Oct 2013 #117

Pro active, by teaching young people to advocate for themselves..which in this case, the advice Jefferson23 Oct 2013 #120

Some people are operating on the idea that ANY time sex occurs in conjunction with alcohol Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #125

Not me ismnotwasm Oct 2013 #131

I also think it's a misdefintion of the word as well as, if I can say it, removal of agency Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #134

What you or anyone's opinion on the matter is irrelevant BainsBane Oct 2013 #132

And yet you do realize that on planet Earth, there is a lot of consensual sex that occurs w/alcohol. Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #133

there is also a lot of rape BainsBane Oct 2013 #135

No, I'm not suggesting that the law, such as it is, be changed whatsoever. Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #137

Three beers would only constitute legal intoxication IF BainsBane Oct 2013 #140

Believe it or not, even as drunken college students back in the stone age, we understood consent. Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #141

There is a difference between intoxication and under the influence BainsBane Oct 2013 #143

Excellent advice, which universally applies. Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #144

Simple way to deal with that. NuclearDem Oct 2013 #139

Fine advice for those still going to bars and trying to meet new folks. Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #142

FFS ismnotwasm Oct 2013 #130

Totally agree and I follow that to the letter, I wish others did the same. nt uriel1972 Oct 2013 #136

The articles held women responsbile as the guardians of male sexual behavior. rocktivity Oct 2013 #138