General Discussion

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)

37. "Most of the people who have been killed in the strikes were militants"

Tue Oct 22, 2013, 04:21 PM

Oct 2013

Your argument - that we must use drones to kill "terrorists" - looks good on first glance, but when you realize that "militants" is just Obama Administration shorthand for "military-age males" the argument falls apart completely.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/world/obamas-leadership-in-war-on-al-qaeda.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&

"Mr. Obama embraced a disputed method for counting civilian casualties that did little to box him in. It in effect counts all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants, according to several administration officials, unless there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent."

The honest truth is that we don't really know, or for that matter really care, who our drones are killing.

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The most grotesque and blatantly illegal aspect of drone killing: Double Tapping [View all] cali Oct 2013 OP

The Double Tap is pretty indefensible. el_bryanto Oct 2013 #1

well that and terrorizing entire regions of countries cali Oct 2013 #4

Making more terrorists along the way. Puzzledtraveller Oct 2013 #6

Maybe not. AtheistCrusader Oct 2013 #49

There was huge opposition to drone warfare from Democrats going all the sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #19

Thank you OneCrazyDiamond Oct 2013 #71

Obama not only signs off on the drones, he vastly expanded their use Ace Acme Oct 2013 #131

I am of the opinion many are just anti-republican. Puzzledtraveller Oct 2013 #109

Our democratic president joked about drones. CrispyQ Oct 2013 #115

Yes, I remember that and was surprised that many of those who were outraged sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #119

I don't know how we get that behemoth under control. CrispyQ Oct 2013 #121

Fantastic Video! Thank You! Ace Acme Oct 2013 #132

K&R Solly Mack Oct 2013 #2

I'm sure the perpetrators of the murders will be able to explain at their trials...oh, wait. Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2013 #3

They get awards for it now don't they? Puzzledtraveller Oct 2013 #8

Yes, indeed. woo me with science Oct 2013 #11

The Pentagon cancelled it last April cali Oct 2013 #14

"Sort of" being the operative words. woo me with science Oct 2013 #18

Hey! At least the desk-warrior can get a medal now! WinkyDink Oct 2013 #5

Eric Rudolph used that technique Fumesucker Oct 2013 #7

Despicable. n/t cui bono Oct 2013 #9

Targeting first responders. Also targeting children. woo me with science Oct 2013 #10

Best part? Scootaloo Oct 2013 #59

I don't think it's so much that the victims' religion dflprincess Oct 2013 #88

so is there a reason you just started 2 threads about drones instead of one? Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #12

because she hates America Douglas Carpenter Oct 2013 #13

Ahem. BluegrassStateBlues Oct 2013 #15

are you fucking shitting me with this bullcrap?! frylock Oct 2013 #64

yes. I'm angry over atrocities committed by our government. cali Oct 2013 #16

I see. Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #17

so none of this troubles you at all? cali Oct 2013 #21

it's troubling. but then I read this Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #26

and the Pakistan and Afghanistan governments and people are requesting this? Douglas Carpenter Oct 2013 #27

yes, the Pakistan Govt gave permission plus has a lot of control over it JI7 Oct 2013 #33

there is not a shred of evidence that "really" the Pakistani government approves of the strikes the Douglas Carpenter Oct 2013 #42

Other than multiple news reports and the consensus of everyone in foreign policy circles? Recursion Oct 2013 #98

yeah claims by a hostile Indian media of secret reports and claims of secret deals secret Douglas Carpenter Oct 2013 #100

Sigh Recursion Oct 2013 #103

a simple google search "Pakistan condemns drone strikes" - can show what is a provable official Douglas Carpenter Oct 2013 #105

The Pakistani government requested it Recursion Oct 2013 #70

can you provide some link or reference to where the Pakistani government requested drone strikes? Douglas Carpenter Oct 2013 #94

Sure Recursion Oct 2013 #95

again could you provide some evidence that the Pakistani government supports the use of drone strike Douglas Carpenter Oct 2013 #96

Sure thing Recursion Oct 2013 #97

claims of secret deals is not the same as evidence - either way there is certainly no evidence that Douglas Carpenter Oct 2013 #99

Well hell, the US government doesn't "broadly support" airstrikes. This is everybody's least Recursion Oct 2013 #102

shoot and cry - we hate it when people make us kill them Douglas Carpenter Oct 2013 #104

So "kill them over there before they kill us over here"? bullwinkle428 Oct 2013 #30

"Most of the people who have been killed in the strikes were militants" Maedhros Oct 2013 #37

Sometimes the wrong individuals are targeted. Rick says: MyNameGoesHere Oct 2013 #43

Why do you say that? zipplewrath Oct 2013 #53

"They have to be dealt with" How does murdering hundreds of children "deal" with them? n/t jtuck004 Oct 2013 #68

So what exactly is the criteria for justifying murdering a person and those in close proximity? rhett o rick Oct 2013 #118

agree n/t Paper Roses Oct 2013 #56

And thank you for doing that. zeemike Oct 2013 #65

There are multiple threads about any number of subjects. Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2013 #23

is there some reason you're changing the subject instead of responding to it? stupidicus Oct 2013 #34

LOL, why do you care? Defending drones? nt Logical Oct 2013 #52

I hope dozens more are started. This is important. morningfog Oct 2013 #87

It's called a "Double Tap". nt Bonobo Oct 2013 #93

Are you in this thread to discuss the subject or what? nm rhett o rick Oct 2013 #116

Used to do something similar in the Navy back in the 70's and 80's. Kaleva Oct 2013 #20

are you defending this? cali Oct 2013 #22

If the purpose of the 2nd missile is to be a backup for the 1st... Kaleva Oct 2013 #25

The SOp of the entire U.S. Military has been unconscionable for some decades now. [n/t] Maedhros Oct 2013 #40

Did you wait long enough between missiles that rescue workers could reach the scene? n/t A Simple Game Oct 2013 #79

Anyone trying to save their shipmates might well be killed by the 2nd Harpoon. Kaleva Oct 2013 #101

Not quite the same. JoeyT Oct 2013 #133

Is it worse than using a cruise missile? A bomb from a fighter? An troop assault? A suicide bomb? maxsolomon Oct 2013 #24

I don't believe the U.S. has any right whatsoever to bomb cali Oct 2013 #28

Well, we agree that it is not a "War" in the legal sense maxsolomon Oct 2013 #31

As someone said earlier BobbyBoring Oct 2013 #60

I think Muslim Terrorists get to be "real" terrorists, too. maxsolomon Oct 2013 #80

as long as the Pakistan and Afghanistan governments and people want us there carrying out these Douglas Carpenter Oct 2013 #29

And Yemen. don't forget Yemen cali Oct 2013 #32

if the US was poor, didn't have the biggest military and you had a bunch of mcveighs JI7 Oct 2013 #35

you are under the impression that most Pakistanis support these strikes? Douglas Carpenter Oct 2013 #39

So a "mcveigh" lives next door to you bullsnarfle Oct 2013 #129

You are begging the question that American troops MUST otherwise engage the "enemy" Maedhros Oct 2013 #41

+1 G_j Oct 2013 #54

No, I believe that it is a choice, as you do. maxsolomon Oct 2013 #82

"Ending the war", ? What war? Who specifically are we fighting? What have we authorized our rhett o rick Oct 2013 #117

By using the term War on Terror I'm not saying it's an actual declared-by-congress war. maxsolomon Oct 2013 #125

Authorization to Use Military Force... means WAR ConservativeDemocrat Oct 2013 #127

I couldn't agree more stupidicus Oct 2013 #36

Winning the hearts and minds. Orrex Oct 2013 #38

there's actually an op up now trying to make that claim. cali Oct 2013 #45

Sixteen-Year-Old Malala Yousafzai Warns Obama: �Drone Attacks Are Fueling Terrorism� Douglas Carpenter Oct 2013 #44

+1 Thank you for reposting this. woo me with science Oct 2013 #47

If a crowd of other brown people gather to hear her express such views, won't she and the group be Dragonfli Oct 2013 #76

She is one remarkable young woman. She's going to change the world. n/t myrna minx Oct 2013 #81

There is no justification for this. Mojo Electro Oct 2013 #46

Other than this, <<"They appear to be targeting those who have come in to help cheapdate Oct 2013 #48

do some research. you can start with the AI report itself cali Oct 2013 #50

Not one of those linked sources cheapdate Oct 2013 #55

do your own research. there's plenty of it, but you want to defend cali Oct 2013 #57

I'm not "defending this heinous policy" cheapdate Oct 2013 #67

They're pretty much ALL civilians dreamnightwind Oct 2013 #90

How anybody can defend this is beyond me. It's unconscionable. nt DLevine Oct 2013 #51

This is execrable! raging moderate Oct 2013 #58

Utterly indefensible. War crime, by any standard. DirkGently Oct 2013 #61

If even on DU, many defend this, I fear there's little hope of cali Oct 2013 #62

Heinous Auggie Oct 2013 #63

The IRA terrorists used to double tap. In some cases bomb victims died waiting for responders. nt Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2013 #66

If this thread has been posted in the Bush years, it would have gotten BelgianMadCow Oct 2013 #69

When your Hero has his finger on the trigger warrant46 Oct 2013 #72

"the Republicans are worse" "Big Insurance is your friend--they wouldn't ENSLAVE you!" nt MisterP Oct 2013 #89

true enough. cali Oct 2013 #77

Recommended! H2O Man Oct 2013 #73

What possible objective would be served cheapdate Oct 2013 #74

"In almost every way it compromises our strategic mission in the region." correct, we need to stop. Dragonfli Oct 2013 #78

Friends, familiy, associates dreamnightwind Oct 2013 #92

Unfortunately, this heinous method of killing is spreading. DissidentVoice Oct 2013 #75

Interesting dreamnightwind Oct 2013 #91

En route... DissidentVoice Oct 2013 #122

This is terrorism and mass murder of the worst kind. Bluenorthwest Oct 2013 #83

kick woo me with science Oct 2013 #84

this is barbaric... Agony Oct 2013 #85

K&R. Good thread, cali. nt. polly7 Oct 2013 #86

I totally agree with you gopiscrap Oct 2013 #106

Kill a terrorist, create ten more. Kill an innocent, create 100 terrorists. Scuba Oct 2013 #107

That's a claim that can be verified or falsified, so it's at least a good start Recursion Oct 2013 #108

Much of that "Marshall Plan" $$$ warrant46 Oct 2013 #110

And I suspect the same thing would happen if we tried that in Pakistan, too Recursion Oct 2013 #112

I was in Viet-Nam I saw this shit happen warrant46 Oct 2013 #114

actually, it can't. for all your pride on your superior logic cali Oct 2013 #111

True, we did the original Marshall plan *after* devastating the entire continent Recursion Oct 2013 #113

devastating the continent? wtf? and does Hitler and the Reich get any of the cali Oct 2013 #123

Killing civilians is a war crime Generic Other Oct 2013 #120

Deliberately *targeting* civilians is a war-crime ConservativeDemocrat Oct 2013 #128

Reality based? Generic Other Oct 2013 #135

Yeah. I agree. toddwv Oct 2013 #124

This is especially true if there was a specific bigwig there.... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #126

We have to kill the rescue workers over there or they'll be rescuing us over here Ace Acme Oct 2013 #130

I wonder if it would be possible to find a first responder that would support programs like this. JoeyT Oct 2013 #134