General Discussion

pnwmom

(110,328 posts)

90. It was a religious symbol for thousands of years before some gang

Tue Oct 22, 2013, 07:29 PM

Oct 2013

supposedly decided to adopt it. Catholics can't be forced to lose their religious symbols at the whim of some gangs.

Please show me the case law showing that wearing a rosary is not Constitutionally protected, since you are so sure it exists.

Tinker v. Des Moines Independent School District: “students do not shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate."

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/n-y-teen-suspended-for-wearing-rosary-sues-school

Editor’s note: On Oct. 30, 2010, a U.S. district judge approved a settlement agreement between the Schenectady City School District and Raymond Hosier, who was suspended for wearing a rosary to school. The school district agreed to pay nearly $25,000 in damages, legal fees and costs, and to expunge any disciplinary notes stemming from the incident from Hosier’s permanent record. The school district also recently changed its policy banning the rosary from being worn in school.

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Faith under fire: Student told to remove rosary [View all] The Straight Story Oct 2013 OP

"So they are letting gangs decide what kids can and can't wear" - yes, if the school has a dress Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #1

Rosaries were Christian symbols long before gangs adopted them (if they have). pnwmom Oct 2013 #11

We can, we have, and the Rosary is not jewelry. n/t Egalitarian Thug Oct 2013 #20

I agree, a Rosary is not jewelry. But wearing it around pnwmom Oct 2013 #22

Absolutely disagree. He is allowed to wear the rosary. That is the point being glossed over. He is okaawhatever Oct 2013 #35

Wrong. The school's dress code bans all rosaries. pnwmom Oct 2013 #38

In this case he wasn't asked to remove it until he failed repeatedly to put it under his shirt. Also okaawhatever Oct 2013 #42

NO! The district does NOT forbid rosaries. pnwmom Oct 2013 #45

The individual school has created a policy in addition to district policy period. If the district okaawhatever Oct 2013 #50

The school has created a policy in violation of the district policy, pnwmom Oct 2013 #52

Exactly, but when the rosary being worn as a necklace became a gang symbol, the individual school okaawhatever Oct 2013 #60

Here's what an Archbishop had to say about another rosary banning. pnwmom Oct 2013 #63

While I appreciate his sentiment, a Principal should not be forced to make a case that one individua okaawhatever Oct 2013 #77

It isn't against the teachings of the Catholic Church to wear them. pnwmom Oct 2013 #79

The Catholic Code of Canon Law might think rosaries used as gang signs are not allowed Generic Other Oct 2013 #138

NO ONE is claiming the boy is using it as a gang sign. pnwmom Oct 2013 #139

Not an isolated incident Generic Other Oct 2013 #143

True. Schools are over-reacting to this all over the country. pnwmom Oct 2013 #146

I don't argue for banning either Generic Other Oct 2013 #150

Not to mention in violation of the constitution Posteritatis Oct 2013 #73

Why should progressives care about a silly little thing pnwmom Oct 2013 #74

You're right of course. My bad; I forgot to pay my Dumb Bill this month! (nt) Posteritatis Oct 2013 #75

What would they do about a yarmulke? Jackpine Radical Oct 2013 #54

That would clearly violate their anti-beanie policy. pnwmom Oct 2013 #71

as a catholic school student auntsue Oct 2013 #110

Students at this school are not forbidden from wearing dangling things pnwmom Oct 2013 #141

Sister Edna tore me a new one for wearing a rosary in 7th grade eridani Oct 2013 #174

What I have learned is that the practice is cultural. pnwmom Oct 2013 #183

I say if the school isn't banning crosses or Mogen Davids on necklaces-- eridani Oct 2013 #185

The ACLU strongly supports the rights of students to wear rosaries. pnwmom Oct 2013 #186

Well, then I'm starting a gang called the Westside Trousers. NuclearDem Oct 2013 #21

Even better, My gang's symbol is a school uniform. Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #67

The Conformist Gang Yo_Mama Oct 2013 #99

NM dbackjon Oct 2013 #127

* Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #133

If you think you can tell a Muslim not to wear her headdress then put your fucking rosary away TeamPooka Oct 2013 #2

I'm sure you'll point out where the kid's advocating for that any day now. (nt) Posteritatis Oct 2013 #70

nope. just me. nt TeamPooka Oct 2013 #82

Looks like the kid didn't want to comply hobbit709 Oct 2013 #3

Its a dude dying, in pain, on a cross. Miranda4peace Oct 2013 #4

No doubt. My religious symbol is a nice tasty bowl of steamy pasta. Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #5

You obviously havent read Wheat Belly. bunnies Oct 2013 #58

Sophia, I assume. I could be wrong. Thats quite beautiful. Miranda4peace Oct 2013 #170

Good Guess, but, actually--- Eris. Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #172

I really don't know. Miranda4peace Oct 2013 #175

I'm not really being linear, I admit. Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #176

Yet still pretty tame stuff compared to western contemporary fashion standards... LanternWaste Oct 2013 #81

I've yet to come across something worse, although I'm sure you're right and there is much worse. Miranda4peace Oct 2013 #84

It is a sign of his faith. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #97

It's a sign of A faith that he happened to be indocrinated into as a child. Miranda4peace Oct 2013 #167

We disagree but I respect your opinion. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #179

Then maybe, if you can't cope with diversity, if a Catholic Hispanic kid pnwmom Oct 2013 #182

My Persian/Irish children are diverse, and I'm quite proud of our heritage. Miranda4peace Oct 2013 #192

The issue isn't children berating each other. pnwmom Oct 2013 #196

Is the school banning a religious symbol or a symbol used by gangs? Miranda4peace Oct 2013 #198

The legal ruling has been that there has to be a concrete association pnwmom Oct 2013 #199

No, they've decided outward displays of religion provoke violence Warpy Oct 2013 #6

"Finger in the eye Catholic"? Because he wears a visible symbol???? pnwmom Oct 2013 #12

In this case, school policy is very clear Warpy Oct 2013 #16

Why should I look up the bible quote? The issue is what it means to HIM pnwmom Oct 2013 #18

Why not? Religion is a personal thing that should remain private and out of the public sphere. Miranda4peace Oct 2013 #168

And that's your personal opinion, but it's not the law. pnwmom Oct 2013 #171

It does? Miranda4peace Oct 2013 #173

The American Civil Liberties Union says the ban violates the 1st Amendment. pnwmom Oct 2013 #180

That is their opinion, it might go to the courts. Miranda4peace Oct 2013 #188

Rosary wearers have ALREADY gone to court and won. pnwmom Oct 2013 #191

Meanwhile Uniforms have been upheld free of accessories. Miranda4peace Oct 2013 #193

None of these schools require uniforms and they all ban pnwmom Oct 2013 #194

I don't know that. Have you called all of these schools? Miranda4peace Oct 2013 #195

No, but I posted the dress code of Monroe Elementary, the specific pnwmom Oct 2013 #197

Your opinion is yours and mine is mine. Miranda4peace Oct 2013 #200

You're confused. The case in the OP was at James Monroe Elementary pnwmom Oct 2013 #204

Not confused, tired and waiting to send my son off to his father before I can sleep. Miranda4peace Oct 2013 #205

We all know the quote because Union Scribe Oct 2013 #161

In this particular case, it's highly appropriate Warpy Oct 2013 #166

growing up catholic auntsue Oct 2013 #122

It is more accepted among some Catholic ethnic groups than others. pnwmom Oct 2013 #126

The safety concern is valid only if all necklaces are prohibited. Ms. Toad Oct 2013 #37

where I taught auntsue Oct 2013 #123

And (although I am not a fan of dress codes) Ms. Toad Oct 2013 #128

This school's dress code ONLY bans rosaries -- anything else around pnwmom Oct 2013 #148

Rosaries are not jewelry Retrograde Oct 2013 #7

He's not wearing it as jewelry. And even if his beliefs aren't pnwmom Oct 2013 #19

Wearing a rosary as a necklace is like using a yarmulke as a handkerchief: REP Oct 2013 #26

I'm Catholic and I don't perceive it as an insult. pnwmom Oct 2013 #30

But it's just not done. Iris Oct 2013 #152

Not true. Members of some Catholic ethnic groups are more likely pnwmom Oct 2013 #154

Can some pastafarian please declare baggy jeans a religious symbol Recursion Oct 2013 #8

just say no to crack Niceguy1 Oct 2013 #10

Rosary worn around neck is a death sign warrprayer Oct 2013 #9

And now they have dog tags with religion stamped on them for appropriate death services. nt okaawhatever Oct 2013 #39

if I am not mistaken warrprayer Oct 2013 #40

Ah didn't know that. I know the chaplains are often "cross-trained" if you will to provide services okaawhatever Oct 2013 #44

Rosaries are not necklaces and are not worn as such by actual Catholics REP Oct 2013 #13

This is correct. n/t Mr.Bill Oct 2013 #14

Yup. silverweb Oct 2013 #17

Only some people feel that way Mosby Oct 2013 #27

Those "some people" being Catholics REP Oct 2013 #28

I don't think it's clear cut. Mosby Oct 2013 #29

Thank you. Wearing it as a statement of faith is fine -- and that is what pnwmom Oct 2013 #76

Are you aware that it's not uncommon in Mexico, and that this boy pnwmom Oct 2013 #66

Is an Archbishop an "actual Catholic"? pnwmom Oct 2013 #48

Would you still be OK with it if the kid was killed by gang members because of it? xfundy Oct 2013 #91

I would say it is up to that boy's parents to decide, and they're not concerned. pnwmom Oct 2013 #92

Rosaries are not meant to be worn. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #100

Rosaries may be worn as an expression of faith, pnwmom Oct 2013 #118

I meant to say around the neck. BTW we Anglicans/Episcopalians have a rosary as well. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #120

Well, Catholics are allowed to wear it around the neck. pnwmom Oct 2013 #124

I personally have no objection to it. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #125

So you decide who is an "actual Catholic"? Union Scribe Oct 2013 #158

no religious paraphernalia should be permitted n public schools. bowens43 Oct 2013 #15

+1 Go Vols Oct 2013 #23

So no practicing Sikh could wear a turban pnwmom Oct 2013 #49

Religious freedom is allowed in our nation and we also have First Amendment rights of ... spin Oct 2013 #61

The state can't institute a religion, that'S pretty much the it. Miranda4peace Oct 2013 #169

A little research shows ... spin Oct 2013 #184

I was for uniforms at school, still am. Miranda4peace Oct 2013 #189

I can see advantages to uniforms in schools. ... spin Oct 2013 #206

I agree. Miranda4peace Oct 2013 #207

In recent years testing has become important to establish benchmarks to compare ... spin Oct 2013 #208

Why not just tuck it in? It's a rosary, not a fashion statement. JaneyVee Oct 2013 #24

Rules are rules? The school's rules violates the district's policy. pnwmom Oct 2013 #34

Is wearing a turban considered a safety issue? JaneyVee Oct 2013 #36

It could be, if it were to become a "gang symbol." Anything pnwmom Oct 2013 #41

Hey now, keep your logic and sanity away from this nice frothing moral panic! (nt) Posteritatis Oct 2013 #68

I hope he doesn't remove it LittleBlue Oct 2013 #25

The school dress code says "no rosaries are allowed." But the district policy pnwmom Oct 2013 #43

Not the safety I was thinking of zipplewrath Oct 2013 #31

They don't ban necklaces. n/t pnwmom Oct 2013 #33

under the shirt zipplewrath Oct 2013 #140

No, they don't ban necklaces or anything else over the shirt except rosaries. pnwmom Oct 2013 #142

The school's dress code is in violation of district policy. pnwmom Oct 2013 #32

No red or blue clothing? NutmegYankee Oct 2013 #47

I'm Catholic and I know it isn't conventional -- and I fully support pnwmom Oct 2013 #51

No. NutmegYankee Oct 2013 #56

Catholicism doesn't prohibit the wearing of rosaries. pnwmom Oct 2013 #59

I know locally it is completely frowned upon. NutmegYankee Oct 2013 #64

It's fairly common in Mexico, and this boy is Hispanic. pnwmom Oct 2013 #65

One has to make a logic call on this. NutmegYankee Oct 2013 #78

That's not what the Archbishop in Omaha thinks. pnwmom Oct 2013 #80

And others disagree. NutmegYankee Oct 2013 #83

No, he doesn't want to hide his faith in his pocket. pnwmom Oct 2013 #85

Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District NutmegYankee Oct 2013 #88

It was a religious symbol for thousands of years before some gang pnwmom Oct 2013 #90

I referenced the provision in the post you replied to. NutmegYankee Oct 2013 #94

The provision you referenced has never been used in Constitutional law pnwmom Oct 2013 #96

Take an eastern religion example - NutmegYankee Oct 2013 #98

Nice. Now you're comparing a rosary to a swastika. But you're not pnwmom Oct 2013 #107

I'm comparing one faith's religious symbol to another faiths religious symbol. NutmegYankee Oct 2013 #113

I didn't even know regular folks wore rosary beads Blue_Tires Oct 2013 #46

It isn't conventional. n/t pnwmom Oct 2013 #53

isn't a rosary supposed to be pocketed demigoddess Oct 2013 #55

It's usually not worn, but there's no Church law against it. pnwmom Oct 2013 #57

It ain't a necklace. Iggo Oct 2013 #62

You're right, he's wearing it as a form of religious expression. pnwmom Oct 2013 #69

I don't believe him. Iggo Oct 2013 #119

That isn't relevant. What is relevant is the U.S. constitution, pnwmom Oct 2013 #149

This is a discussion board, not a court of law, and it's completely relevant. Iggo Oct 2013 #165

Oh boy, another "the First Amendment doesn't apply to things we don't like" thread. (nt) Posteritatis Oct 2013 #72

gotta love them. Niceguy1 Oct 2013 #103

Yes, with a big side dish of Union Scribe Oct 2013 #159

Proudly? That begs the question, what is his reason for wearing it? notadmblnd Oct 2013 #86

He says he's wearing it as an expression of his religious belief, pnwmom Oct 2013 #93

So he is displaying it for others to see? notadmblnd Oct 2013 #101

This Archbishop doesn't have a problem with people who wear pnwmom Oct 2013 #106

Again, that is not it's purpose. notadmblnd Oct 2013 #136

thank you - rosaties are for prayer auntsue Oct 2013 #130

Gang violence is a very real threat in my community. hunter Oct 2013 #87

The school's dress code is in violation of its own district's policy. pnwmom Oct 2013 #95

Another "good Christian" ... 99Forever Oct 2013 #89

What makes him a chump? hrmjustin Oct 2013 #102

Generally Catholics don't support wearing it as a necklace. NutmegYankee Oct 2013 #104

Some Catholics dislike it but in some parts of the world it is acceptable. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #105

Obviously the other DUer didn't like it. NutmegYankee Oct 2013 #108

When I was RC in my youth I remember kids in my class waring them and I asked why and they hrmjustin Oct 2013 #112

You don't speak for any Catholics. pnwmom Oct 2013 #111

And neither do you in my opinion. nt NutmegYankee Oct 2013 #114

I, at least, am Catholic, and I gave you the link pnwmom Oct 2013 #116

You seem to be doing that same shopping. nt Union Scribe Oct 2013 #160

No, student told to put rosary inside shirt hatrack Oct 2013 #109

Doesn't matter. The dress code says rosaries aren't allowed pnwmom Oct 2013 #117

The ACLU strongly supports students' right to wear rosaries. pnwmom Oct 2013 #115

Anyone want to knowledgeably comment on the gang aspect of this ? steve2470 Oct 2013 #121

Google wearing rosary as gang sign Generic Other Oct 2013 #144

thank you for looking that up, I got lazy lol steve2470 Oct 2013 #145

TAX THE CHURCHES DontTreadOnMe Oct 2013 #129

Deadbeats? Churches do a lot of good in the community. Mine does! hrmjustin Oct 2013 #131

Do they pay property taxes? DontTreadOnMe Oct 2013 #134

We have townhouses and a school on the property so we may pay on them. hrmjustin Oct 2013 #137

You can't do that unless you tax all non-profits the same way. pnwmom Oct 2013 #147

Planned Parenthood and the AHA don't OWN BILLIONS in property DontTreadOnMe Oct 2013 #151

Yeah! Especially when they're guilty of anti-government political speech! Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2013 #157

Anything to say about the, ya know, actual topic? Union Scribe Oct 2013 #162

That's a shame HERVEPA Oct 2013 #132

Even as an atheist, I support the student's choice to express his religion. X_Digger Oct 2013 #135

Thank you for supporting this student's Constitutional right. pnwmom Oct 2013 #155

If he is allowed to otherwise express his faith openly at school, but simply asked to keep JDPriestly Oct 2013 #153

The school's dress code specifically prohibits rosaries, but not any other pnwmom Oct 2013 #156

You're not supposed to wear it, ever. PeteSelman Oct 2013 #163

Faith sure got a lot of fire back then Celefin Oct 2013 #164

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2013 #177

We couldn't wear a rosary around our neck in Catholic school HockeyMom Oct 2013 #178

The Church has no official policy against it, as long as the rosary pnwmom Oct 2013 #181

"In some Catholic ethnic groups this is more frowned upon than in others" NutmegYankee Oct 2013 #187

Too bad they didn't also give him a swat. gulliver Oct 2013 #190

Separation of church & state, not belief, dress code . Render on to orpupilofnature57 Oct 2013 #201

There is no consensus on school dress code issues. LWolf Oct 2013 #202

Even at Catholic school. he might be asked to take it off.. A rosary is NOT jewelry SoCalDem Oct 2013 #203