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dflprincess

(29,341 posts)

136. Churchill pushed for Dresden

Tue Oct 22, 2013, 10:25 PM

Oct 2013

and the RAF was heavily involved in the bombing as was the US Air Corps.

In the effort to make Obama look better by tearing FDR down, do we just forget about Nazi Germany and the crimes it committed when it bombed civilian population centers?

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This message was self-deleted by its author [View all] Cali_Democrat Oct 2013 OP

Care to explain this? Jackpine Radical Oct 2013 #1

You explained it yourself: geek tragedy Oct 2013 #6

Putting captured combatants nd sympathizers in prison is vastly different from rounding bluestate10 Oct 2013 #112

So any good he did is not to be counted? upaloopa Oct 2013 #2

No. But it's wrong to put him up on a pedestal, as many do here. pnwmom Oct 2013 #30

The south was solid DEM and solid CONSERVATIVE and SEGREGATIONIST. Smarmie Doofus Oct 2013 #37

He wasn't acting against segregation, was he? pnwmom Oct 2013 #40

thats the best you have? Seriously? LOL bowens43 Oct 2013 #3

I know right! Mojorabbit Oct 2013 #81

Obama has done some amazingly wonderful things, with no severe blunders at all... tridim Oct 2013 #99

Drones killing civilians. NSA surveillance ramped up. Mojorabbit Oct 2013 #137

:sigh: Obviously, socially he was a product of his time and circumstances. PeteSelman Oct 2013 #4

FDR wasn't a bigot. He was a coward who caved to Congressional bigots though, geek tragedy Oct 2013 #8

Yes, at a time where black people were still considered less than human. PeteSelman Oct 2013 #23

This was 1940, not 1840. geek tragedy Oct 2013 #31

1940 was not that different than 1840 re: race noiretextatique Oct 2013 #59

We're talking about anti-lynching laws. FDR caved to filibusters from southern geek tragedy Oct 2013 #60

dixicrats...ok. did the majority of white citizens in america agree with the dixiecrats? noiretextatique Oct 2013 #66

No, they didn't since there are majority votes in both houses to enact anti-lynching geek tragedy Oct 2013 #69

and there are some white people who aren't that different now, including in Congress JI7 Oct 2013 #71

Hear! Hear! BlueCaliDem Oct 2013 #72

Bullshit. PeteSelman Oct 2013 #116

That's the view from the leftwing analog to the Tea Party. geek tragedy Oct 2013 #119

no, it's a realistic view based on views of Reagan of his time fascisthunter Oct 2013 #133

That is also bullshit. PeteSelman Oct 2013 #135

Ok. ok. Obama is the best human being that has ever lived, and outshines all other presidents quinnox Oct 2013 #5

Pathetic. and none too swift. cali Oct 2013 #7

None too swift like pretending that FDR had some magic mojo geek tragedy Oct 2013 #11

no. none too swift as in making the false claim you just made, geek cali Oct 2013 #12

Why the pining for FDR if he would have had no better success geek tragedy Oct 2013 #15

FDR did have a secret weapon though brush Oct 2013 #36

FDR was also a war criminal who killed far more civilians than Obama ever did. n/t Cali_Democrat Oct 2013 #62

I don't consider interning the Japanese an act of bigotry but of fear. Cleita Oct 2013 #9

So as long as people persecute racial minorities out of fear, it's not bigotry? nt geek tragedy Oct 2013 #13

Yeah, that one put me on my ear too. People who hate Gays can be excused because they are bluestate10 Oct 2013 #113

80,000 French civilians were killed by Allied bombing during WW2. Scurrilous Oct 2013 #10

fucking ridiculous. cali Oct 2013 #14

How is FDR's wanton, indiscriminate massacring of civilians a dumb geek tragedy Oct 2013 #17

So you think he should have surrendered day after Pearl? Bluenorthwest Oct 2013 #22

Just like Obama should just let Al Qaeda and the Taliban win? geek tragedy Oct 2013 #25

And that is supposed to mitigate the droning of civilians during a 'sort of war' Bluenorthwest Oct 2013 #32

So you would agree that cross-generational comparisons of politicians geek tragedy Oct 2013 #33

I think crazed simpistic hyperbole about any subject is idiotic. Bluenorthwest Oct 2013 #48

The same person who had called the comparison 'dumb' was yesterday geek tragedy Oct 2013 #56

You really need to read up on the Japanese cities that the USA bombed with munitions that bluestate10 Oct 2013 #115

We have been at war in Afghanistan for twelve years now Fumesucker Oct 2013 #35

We had our equivalent military victory within a few months there. geek tragedy Oct 2013 #42

Don't forget Poland Fumesucker Oct 2013 #46

Ain't any profits in Afghanistan. nt geek tragedy Oct 2013 #49

We spent more on air conditioning tents in Afghanistan than on NASA Fumesucker Oct 2013 #54

That used to be true, but only when you throw in Iraq. geek tragedy Oct 2013 #57

Afghanistan is a logistical nightmare, far more so than Iraq Fumesucker Oct 2013 #78

True, but it's a lot cooler there. Logistical support isn't something that can geek tragedy Oct 2013 #79

Fuel to run the generators to power the A/C is part of the logistical support Fumesucker Oct 2013 #82

But, there is a LOT less A/C needed in Afghanistan. geek tragedy Oct 2013 #83

You aren't doing yourself any favors quibbling over details Fumesucker Oct 2013 #90

That's true, because we decided to engage in nation-building geek tragedy Oct 2013 #95

All of which has been masterfully mismanaged Fumesucker Oct 2013 #100

FDR didn't live to see attempts at rebuilding. geek tragedy Oct 2013 #101

No one could have predicted Fumesucker Oct 2013 #103

I opposed the invasion of Iraq for that among many other reasons. geek tragedy Oct 2013 #104

Ahhh . . . we had a little help in that. brush Oct 2013 #55

Don't forget Poland Fumesucker Oct 2013 #80

Maybe we should bring back carpet bombing like was used by Allies in WWII. Your case bluestate10 Oct 2013 #118

Maybe we should bring back Congress declaring actual war Fumesucker Oct 2013 #121

they should have negotiated with Japan. Why lob bombs or attack them? Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #68

WWII wasn't done on the cheap and in order to enhance corporate profits Fumesucker Oct 2013 #124

Distinction without a difference; if Obama is wrong for the drones FDR was wrong for that treestar Oct 2013 #74

Dresden leveled, killing men, women and children by the tens of thousands and starving those that bluestate10 Oct 2013 #114

Churchill pushed for Dresden dflprincess Oct 2013 #136

That's a simplistic analysis of a complex President el_bryanto Oct 2013 #16

Reductio ad absurdem. FDR is treated as a demigod who could do no wrong geek tragedy Oct 2013 #18

I'm not sure what you are saying here el_bryanto Oct 2013 #20

They're equally stupid, which could/should be the takeway from this thread geek tragedy Oct 2013 #21

+ infinity nt ecstatic Oct 2013 #41

+1 JoePhilly Oct 2013 #47

which was the point of the post. Obama detractors always go to the FDR well Pretzel_Warrior Oct 2013 #70

And your post is a bit of a straw man. longship Oct 2013 #53

+1000 to your last sentence nt geek tragedy Oct 2013 #58

Meanwhile, others treat Obama as a demigod who could do no wrong... YoungDemCA Oct 2013 #102

are very few in number, compared to the naysayers. geek tragedy Oct 2013 #106

What do you claim are the difference in the German and Japanese internments? Bluenorthwest Oct 2013 #19

See upthread: Cali_Democrat Oct 2013 #28

But that was a function of geography, there was a Pacific Coast Exclusion Zone Bluenorthwest Oct 2013 #39

Trying to justify the bigotry of FDR, eh? Cali_Democrat Oct 2013 #50

So these were carefully considered racist concentration camps? nt geek tragedy Oct 2013 #51

Sorry, you're desperately trying to keep FDR on the "god" pedestal. FDR was a human who was bluestate10 Oct 2013 #122

This OP really makes me want to vomit. cthulu2016 Oct 2013 #24

FDR and his policies were great for his time and Obama and his policies are great for this time. BluegrassStateBlues Oct 2013 #26

Every president has done his good and not good things frazzled Oct 2013 #27

There were detention camps for Italians. avaistheone1 Oct 2013 #29

See upthread Cali_Democrat Oct 2013 #43

By that logic George W. Bush was a better president than Lincoln or Jefferson. n/t Smarmie Doofus Oct 2013 #34

BINGO! Some of the stuff that Lincoln wrote would absolutely make bullwinkle428 Oct 2013 #44

+1 leftstreet Oct 2013 #45

Yeah, and the cavemen were a-holes for not landing on the moon. Waiting For Everyman Oct 2013 #38

Obama IS the new FDR, except he doesn't have 300+ in the House and 70+ in Senate JaneyVee Oct 2013 #52

what a ridiculous post noiretextatique Oct 2013 #61

I'm a BOG people? Cali_Democrat Oct 2013 #63

yes...you are one noiretextatique Oct 2013 #64

FDR was also a war criminal who killed far more civilians than Obama ever did. Cali_Democrat Oct 2013 #65

so far... noiretextatique Oct 2013 #67

Do you know how many German and Japanese civilians were killed by carpet bombing? Cali_Democrat Oct 2013 #73

That was also during war time. Drone strikes are not being done in a war. cui bono Oct 2013 #85

It's illegal to intentionally target civilians during war Cali_Democrat Oct 2013 #87

But it's okay to target them when there is no war??? cui bono Oct 2013 #93

No. Cali_Democrat Oct 2013 #94

Okay, so then your argument on that point falls flat since Obama does that with drones. cui bono Oct 2013 #96

Well.... Cali_Democrat Oct 2013 #97

Yes he is. There is an OP posted today about "double tapping". cui bono Oct 2013 #98

Your point on FDR falls also, because he allowed purposeful targeting of civilians. How can you bluestate10 Oct 2013 #123

Just as there is no reason to put past Presidents on pedestals treestar Oct 2013 #75

The folks who use BOG as an insult are pretty hilarious. JoePhilly Oct 2013 #77

You might like to move this to the Obama group. Any criticism of the Dear Leader is Verboten there. Vincardog Oct 2013 #76

This is really pathetic...and so are some of the comments...honestly, we get it... joeybee12 Oct 2013 #84

it's delusional. it really is. Hell, why not just say he's the greatest man who ever lived? cali Oct 2013 #88

No, that's FDR Cali_Democrat Oct 2013 #89

your view of history is shockingly anachronistic and uneducated cali Oct 2013 #86

Two replies to the same OP from you? Cali_Democrat Oct 2013 #91

Cali_Democrat is right. FDR interred Japanese Americans in a way that he didn't bluestate10 Oct 2013 #125

indeed fascisthunter Oct 2013 #129

Pfft. If you want to make a strong argument you have to take things in context. cui bono Oct 2013 #92

Edit - Not worth responding. myrna minx Oct 2013 #105

So we're allowed to criticize Obama, but we can't criticize FDR? Cali_Democrat Oct 2013 #108

What does your post have to do with the current President? myrna minx Oct 2013 #109

You edited because I caught your double standard Cali_Democrat Oct 2013 #110

That's silly -What did bust exactly? I edited because this is nothing but flame bait and probably myrna minx Oct 2013 #111

IT involves the current President because there are some on DU that INSIST on calling bluestate10 Oct 2013 #126

I also want to say the same thing about Reagan; Jamaal510 Oct 2013 #107

this was indicative of the period rather than of the man. LanternWaste Oct 2013 #117

Ok, write slowly so that I can understand. Why was FDR's actions and policy indicative of his bluestate10 Oct 2013 #128

Yeh, the right wing has been pushing this meme forever because they hate the New Deal Zorra Oct 2013 #120

he was a war criminal and Obama in comparison isn't? fascisthunter Oct 2013 #127

FDR knowingly attacked civilians to KILL them. Look up firebombing of Japanese cities bluestate10 Oct 2013 #132

You think Obama didn't think or know there would be collateral damage fascisthunter Oct 2013 #134

Worst. Thread. Ever. ThoughtCriminal Oct 2013 #130

I won't defend FDR on race, but senseandsensibility Oct 2013 #131