General Discussion

hunter

(40,702 posts)

34. I think a lot about creating a society that no longer uses money.

Wed Oct 23, 2013, 05:28 PM

Oct 2013

A society that is able to abandon money for something better, probably by technical and social innovations, a society that makes "money" obsolete.

What would a high technology society that doesn't use "money" as a means of accounting look like? Could such a society grow within our existing economy or would the present moneyed class see such innovation as a threat and crush it?

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What is "money"? [View all] kentuck Oct 2013 OP

The US dollar is a Fiat currency johnd83 Oct 2013 #1

The problem arises when... kentuck Oct 2013 #4

No, quite the opposite johnd83 Oct 2013 #5

Isn't that what I said? kentuck Oct 2013 #8

IMHO it is the inequality johnd83 Oct 2013 #15

Yes. kentuck Oct 2013 #16

Keynesian economics Lifelong Dem Oct 2013 #17

I would argue we currently have too much money coming from too little productivity. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2013 #30

Fiat currencies, by their very nature, are inflationary Warpy Oct 2013 #6

Inflation isn't necessarily a bad thing johnd83 Oct 2013 #7

The best times we ever had was when wages were tied to productivity. kentuck Oct 2013 #9

Concur. See my Post #30 Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2013 #31

All currency is fiat currency eridani Oct 2013 #47

Precious metals are NOT, by definition, fiat currency Art_from_Ark Oct 2013 #54

Metal prices fluctuate because of irrational human whims eridani Oct 2013 #60

You can't just go making up your own definitions Art_from_Ark Oct 2013 #61

I still maintain that all currencies are based on social arrangements eridani Oct 2013 #62

Yes, governments set denominational values but markets set prices. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2013 #63

Fiat currency means the government-issued money is unbacked Art_from_Ark Oct 2013 #67

Can't argue with any of that. Thank-you for the conversation. n/t Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2013 #68

I agree, commodity backed currencies are no better johnd83 Oct 2013 #59

Money is a concept. CK_John Oct 2013 #2

...by which we measure our pain. deutsey Oct 2013 #32

It's debt that someone owes us Warpy Oct 2013 #3

Still a really memorable piece of music Fumesucker Oct 2013 #10

Yep! kentuck Oct 2013 #11

Hell yes Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #21

But if we instead had the $17 billion dollars in debt in the hands of American consumers.... kentuck Oct 2013 #12

I make it quaker bill Oct 2013 #13

Are you speaking of the value of money or...? kentuck Oct 2013 #14

No, it is neither quaker bill Oct 2013 #18

Not all labor has the same value. GreenStormCloud Oct 2013 #39

Labor is subject to the law of supply and demand. kentuck Oct 2013 #40

True but that value derived from the necessity would be an incentive to competition. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2013 #49

Your art does not create money, it competes for money that already exists. CJCRANE Oct 2013 #20

Not actually true quaker bill Oct 2013 #24

You create value - but only if other people are prepared to pay for it. CJCRANE Oct 2013 #25

I would argue the consumer ultimately assigns value. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2013 #50

You are creating Wealth, not Money jmowreader Oct 2013 #22

Wealth is expressed quaker bill Oct 2013 #26

Your art is creating money for you CJCRANE Oct 2013 #27

all money is magiced up out of nowhere quaker bill Oct 2013 #41

Wealth becomes money when you either exchange it for or use it as money jmowreader Oct 2013 #33

What I believe is indeed irrelevant quaker bill Oct 2013 #42

Can you buy a car with your art? Or food? jmowreader Oct 2013 #45

It is really this simple quaker bill Oct 2013 #46

a final point quaker bill Oct 2013 #43

The IRS taxes on inventory? I thought they taxed income from completed transactions? Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2013 #64

The change in value of inventory is income. quaker bill Oct 2013 #65

But your inventory has no real value until someone pays for it Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2013 #66

If true, then inventory is a great way to hide income. quaker bill Oct 2013 #69

Cabbage Electric Monk Oct 2013 #19

PhD theses can be and have been written on that question Recursion Oct 2013 #23

Most money exists only as account balances in computers. FarCenter Oct 2013 #28

At this point, it's not even paper - it's data points .... Myrina Oct 2013 #29

I think a lot about creating a society that no longer uses money. hunter Oct 2013 #34

You have to have something standard that everyone will accept. kentuck Oct 2013 #35

With the powerful computing systems we have these days, and most every family having a cell phone... hunter Oct 2013 #38

That sounds like the goal of the "bitcoin" project jmowreader Oct 2013 #48

No. Bitcoins are a point metric as well. hunter Oct 2013 #56

We already had a multi-dimensional barter system CJCRANE Oct 2013 #51

I think that's because everything is measured in dollars. hunter Oct 2013 #57

Interesting idea. CJCRANE Oct 2013 #37

The powers who control the creation and distribution of money do tell people what to do hunter Oct 2013 #55

Money is meaningless Shankapotomus Oct 2013 #36

An arbitrary metric for ones right to make arbitrary demands of ones fellow citizens. nt bemildred Oct 2013 #44

one of the two Niceguy1 Oct 2013 #52

Money is whatever people believe customerserviceguy Oct 2013 #53

Exactly! econoclast Oct 2013 #58